Beast Mastery Hunter 7.3

[Guest Hidden]

1 hour ago, Orthios said:

Neither Blink Strikes nor Beast Cleave have mechanically changed, thus their implementations in SimC are the same as they were before the patch, meaning it does account for the basic attacks triggering beast cleave.

Unless you can prove otherwise, we will assume that this is the case.

So you don't even bother quickly checking the logs used in the guide? I'd rather not comment on that.

First off, taking the T18M profile included with the current Simulationcraft build and changing to five targets, here's an example from the log clearly showing that melee attacks trigger beast cleave whereas claw doesn't:

15.000 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat gains 4.22 (15.87) focus from focus_regen (120.00/120.00)

15.000 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat schedules execute for claw

15.000 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat performs claw (120)

15.000 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat claw hits Fluffy_Pillow for 16687 physical damage (hit)

15.000 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat consumes 50.0 focus for claw (70)

15.328 Hunter_BM_T18M performs auto_shot (6)

15.328 Hunter_BM_T18M auto_shot hits Fluffy_Pillow for 9499 physical damage (hit)

15.328 Hunter_BM_T18M gains 5.17 (5.17) focus from focus_regen (11.32/140.00)

15.328 Hunter_BM_T18M gains 0.98 (0.98) focus from dire_beast (12.30/140.00)

15.328 Hunter_BM_T18M schedules execute for auto_shot (12)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat performs melee (70)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat melee hits Fluffy_Pillow for 15604 physical damage (crit)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat performs beast_cleave (70)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat beast_cleave hits enemy2 for 15604 physical damage (hit)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat beast_cleave hits enemy3 for 15604 physical damage (hit)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat beast_cleave hits enemy4 for 15604 physical damage (hit)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat beast_cleave hits enemy5 for 15604 physical damage (hit)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat gains 6.85 (6.85) focus from focus_regen (76.85/120.00)

 

The first bolded part is a claw which clearly doesn't trigger beast_cleave whereas the second part is the next auto attack 0.348 seconds later which triggers beast_cleave as expected. I haven't cut anything from the log so beast_cleave isn't activated in between either.

 

This is also confirmed by looking at the damage distibution and buff uptime:

Beast Cleave    22019    20.5%    196.0    

Claw    5608    5.2%    100.0

melee    5891    5.5%    208.0

 

cat: Beast Cleave    31.0    63.0    9.7sec    3.2sec    90.30%

 

With a buff uptime of 90.30%, you'd expect roughly 208 * 0.903 = 187.8 beast cleave triggers from melee and 100 * 0.903 = 90.3 beast cleave triggers from Claw. The simulation has 196.0 beast cleave triggers which is clearly way too low to account for both triggers (the difference when compared to "expected" triggers from melee only is likely due to beast cleave downtime oftentimes being when no haste buffs such as bloodlust are active and subsequently the pet attacking less often during that time as well). This also shows in the damage distribution where you'd suggest 5891 * (5 - 1) * 0.903 = 21278 beast cleave DPS on 5 targets from melee alone, once again very close to the 22019 presented by Simulationcraft. If it accounted for Claw as well, Beast Cleave would have to make up almost double as much damage as shown here.

 

If you look at the current code on Github (https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/legion-dev/engine/class_modules/sc_hunter.cpp), in line 1640 you have the function trigger_beast_cleave  which is only called once in the melee section (line 1685) but not in the Claw/Bite/Smack section starting in line 1711. Before you ask, line 2198 calls the similarly named function defined in line 2163 specifically for the artifact pet Hati and has nothing to do with the live version.

[Iridar 80]

In "what has changed" section you should mention that pet behavior was changed. Now when pet is put on "assist" stance, it will keep attacking the same target until it dies or you manually tell it to attack another target.

It also doesn't run indecisively between targets when you do.

I find that to be an overall improvement, previously I had to put my pet on passive and add /pettatack [@pettarget, noexists] macro to all my offensive abilities. 

Now even on assist stance I can just send my pet to the boss and keep casting Kill Command on it on cooldown, while freely switching to other targets myself. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Iridar

[Guest Bulleye]

Could we please get an update for Beast Mastery Trinkets/BIS? Thank you.

[Azortharion 60]

What part isn't updated?

[Guest Bullseye]

Okay just checking that what you are listing is current AFTER you re-did the stat priority list.  So the Stone of the Elements trinket is STILL bis for trinkets even AFTER you put Versatility towards the bottom of the stat priorities? Thanks.

[Azortharion 60]

Stat priority has nothing to do with trinkets.

[Guest Bullseye]

Okay good to know then. Thanks

[thekingkbb 0]

Az,

 

Just want to verify that I'm not reading something wrong/confusing myself(which is certainly very possible). I don't like the way MM plays right now so I'm playing BM because it's pre-patch and who gives a shit, right?

In your guide, You list the stat priority as Agi, Mas, Haste, Crit, Vers, Weapon - But in the "pawn string" included in your guide it appears that these are in a different order. I don't mind doing the weights myself but I just wanted clear this up.

http://imgur.com/a/PndSf

I imported the pawn string and uploaded a screenshot for verification. Obviously this prepatch stuff doesn't make a difference anyway, but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't misreading something here.

 

Side note - Thanks for your guides. I have been following you for a long time and appreciate your advice. Keep up the great work bud.

Edit-  Also, I apologize if I missed the explanation somewhere else, but why is weapon DPS ranked so low?

Edited August 5, 2016 by thekingkbb

[Azortharion 60]

I have pushed an update to the guide which takes a bit of time to make it through. The Pawn string I update immediately. In hindsight I should prolly just wait with updating the Pawn string to avoid this confusion.

 

As of right now, the pawn string is updated while the guide is not.

Weapon DPS is ranked so low because not a lot of BM abilities scale off of it, they scale off attack power instead.

[thekingkbb 0]

Just now, Azortharion said:

I have pushed an update to the guide which takes a bit of time to make it through. The Pawn string I update immediately. In hindsight I should prolly just wait with updating the Pawn string to avoid this confusion.

 

As of right now, the pawn string is updated while the guide is not.

Weapon DPS is ranked so low because not a lot of BM abilities scale off of it, they scale off attack power instead.

Az,

Thanks for the quick reply!! I appreciate the clarification. Cheers.

[thekingkbb 0]

Az,

Just remembered a question I had about the Stomp talent - I know that it's not "recommended" , but if we do choose to use it, would it be better to run One with the Pack or Bestial Fury? I know the Bestial Fury is pretty awesome, but would the increased chance to get dire beast resets outweigh the damage bonus? Personally I think BF is still better but it's something that came to my mind.

[Azortharion 60]

The next guide update will push Stomp way up, so use it as you please.

 

One with the Pack is terrible, don't use it.

[thekingkbb 0]

8 minutes ago, Azortharion said:

The next guide update will push Stomp way up, so use it as you please.

 

One with the Pack is terrible, don't use it.

You're the man, thanks.

[PatrickHenry 293]

On 7/20/2016 at 5:39 PM, Guest lavascha said:

[snip]Can you please explain why BM is considered worse than MM? [snip]

Great job again, but a bit confusing statements for lovers of this spec.

The numbers are what they're after, here.  Unfortunately your love for the spec does not affect those numbers. 

I know, I rolled Ret since before it was cool. 

[Waniou 0]

Are there any recommended pets to be using? Or is it fine to just kinda use whatever?

[Orthios 271]

1 hour ago, Waniou said:

Are there any recommended pets to be using? Or is it fine to just kinda use whatever?

 

[Azortharion 60]

Linking that video is uninformative at best and blatantly misleading at worst. Don't do it.

Pets no longer bring buffs, you can bring any pet and they'll deal the same DPS. Some (mostly BM Exotic) pets bring unique abilities. You can see which ones here: http://www.wow-petopia.com/talents/skills.php

[Guest RSK#21268]

5 hours ago, Azortharion said:

Linking that video is uninformative at best and blatantly misleading at worst. Don't do it.

Pets no longer bring buffs, you can bring any pet and they'll deal the same DPS. Some (mostly BM Exotic) pets bring unique abilities. You can see which ones here: http://www.wow-petopia.com/talents/skills.php

Exotic pets it is :D

[Guest Seth]

On 7/30/2016 at 11:35 PM, Guest Hidden said:

So you don't even bother quickly checking the logs used in the guide? I'd rather not comment on that.

First off, taking the T18M profile included with the current Simulationcraft build and changing to five targets, here's an example from the log clearly showing that melee attacks trigger beast cleave whereas claw doesn't:

15.000 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat gains 4.22 (15.87) focus from focus_regen (120.00/120.00)

15.000 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat schedules execute for claw

15.000 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat performs claw (120)

15.000 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat claw hits Fluffy_Pillow for 16687 physical damage (hit)

15.000 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat consumes 50.0 focus for claw (70)

15.328 Hunter_BM_T18M performs auto_shot (6)

15.328 Hunter_BM_T18M auto_shot hits Fluffy_Pillow for 9499 physical damage (hit)

15.328 Hunter_BM_T18M gains 5.17 (5.17) focus from focus_regen (11.32/140.00)

15.328 Hunter_BM_T18M gains 0.98 (0.98) focus from dire_beast (12.30/140.00)

15.328 Hunter_BM_T18M schedules execute for auto_shot (12)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat performs melee (70)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat melee hits Fluffy_Pillow for 15604 physical damage (crit)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat performs beast_cleave (70)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat beast_cleave hits enemy2 for 15604 physical damage (hit)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat beast_cleave hits enemy3 for 15604 physical damage (hit)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat beast_cleave hits enemy4 for 15604 physical damage (hit)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat beast_cleave hits enemy5 for 15604 physical damage (hit)

15.348 Hunter_BM_T18M_cat gains 6.85 (6.85) focus from focus_regen (76.85/120.00)

 

The first bolded part is a claw which clearly doesn't trigger beast_cleave whereas the second part is the next auto attack 0.348 seconds later which triggers beast_cleave as expected. I haven't cut anything from the log so beast_cleave isn't activated in between either.

 

This is also confirmed by looking at the damage distibution and buff uptime:

Beast Cleave    22019    20.5%    196.0    

Claw    5608    5.2%    100.0

melee    5891    5.5%    208.0

 

cat: Beast Cleave    31.0    63.0    9.7sec    3.2sec    90.30%

 

With a buff uptime of 90.30%, you'd expect roughly 208 * 0.903 = 187.8 beast cleave triggers from melee and 100 * 0.903 = 90.3 beast cleave triggers from Claw. The simulation has 196.0 beast cleave triggers which is clearly way too low to account for both triggers (the difference when compared to "expected" triggers from melee only is likely due to beast cleave downtime oftentimes being when no haste buffs such as bloodlust are active and subsequently the pet attacking less often during that time as well). This also shows in the damage distribution where you'd suggest 5891 * (5 - 1) * 0.903 = 21278 beast cleave DPS on 5 targets from melee alone, once again very close to the 22019 presented by Simulationcraft. If it accounted for Claw as well, Beast Cleave would have to make up almost double as much damage as shown here.

 

If you look at the current code on Github (https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/legion-dev/engine/class_modules/sc_hunter.cpp), in line 1640 you have the function trigger_beast_cleave  which is only called once in the melee section (line 1685) but not in the Claw/Bite/Smack section starting in line 1711. Before you ask, line 2198 calls the similarly named function defined in line 2163 specifically for the artifact pet Hati and has nothing to do with the live version.

So someone pointed out this apparently quite big problem in SimCraft nearly 3 weeks ago and no response yet whatsoever to this statement?

I mean just stand at some testing dummys anywhere sic your pet on them open the combatlog and press multishot. And you will see Beast Cleave also proccs on Basic Attacks.  Whereas in the SimCraft Simultations it does not.

[Azortharion 60]

It was fixed before he even made the post. Basic Attacks proc Beast Cleave just fine in SimCraft.

 

[Cheze 6]

guide recommends using murder of crows (and stampede) prior to beastial wrath in the opener, but later recommends delaying murder to align it with BW if necessary.  Shouldn't we begin the fight with BW/aspect > murder > stampede, assuming those talents are taken?

[Azortharion 60]

A Murder of Crows lasts 15 seconds.
Bestial Wrath lasts 10 seconds.

By casting A Murder of Crows, you still get full overlap/alignment/whatever you wanna call it. Therefore there is no reason to cast Crows right after Bestial Wrath if you can do it before. The same goes for Stampede, which lasts 12 seconds.

[Cheze 6]

oh, that makes sense

[Guest Balance]

There's an error in this guide - Volley does not drain 3 focus per second while active, it drains three focus per autoattack.  That's an important distinction.

[Azortharion 60]

Submitted for fix.