Marksmanship Hunter 7.3

[timoseewho 0]

with Zevrim's on single target, do you use the proc if it procs? or is it still considered a useless legendary for st?

[Guest Mjoelkarn]

On 2017-02-13 at 2:24 PM, Blainie said:

It's most likely better, yeah. You can always sim to make sure, but I would assume better itemised pieces with a higher item level will do better.

Is it possible to sim with the meme build?

How do I tell simcraft to do the meme-build rotation/Prio and not the raiding "trick shot" build?

[Vuda 1]

59 minutes ago, Guest Mjoelkarn said:

Is it possible to sim with the meme build?

How do I tell simcraft to do the meme-build rotation/Prio and not the raiding "trick shot" build?

Simcraft has its own list of priorities and uses a rotation based on your talents that you paste from eg. addon.

[Starsha 0]

Is whining allowed?  Just a little?  So when Legion hit I was doing fairly well when gear dropped and my secondary stats lined up well, but now if a piece drops with Mastery on it it's a miracle and my Crit heavy gear makes sense for no hunter spec.  I think I have 5 pieces with Mastery while my guildie co-hunter has 12, 13 in the same time.  So that's the whine.   My question is do I start sacrificing my current gear for gear that's 10-30 ilvls lower just because it has Mastery?  I have seen the "If it's a higher level replace it" but I am not sure that makes sense in this case...  I am currently Crit 30.85, Haste 12.85, Mastery 13.19

[Guest Elbe]

@Starsha: You may want to use Pawn to see which item is actually an improvement for you. In an extreme case an item with less stats and a significantly lower ilvl could still be an upgrade if your stats are very uneven (in your case: having almost no mastery on your equipment will let the relative weight of mastery skyrocket).

The "default" stat weights as described in Azors guide will probably not help you alot though (as your described your gear as very crit-heavy and very weak on Mastery, so stats are rather unevenly distributed), so the best solution would be to sim your gear using simulationcraft and getting your own stat weights from that. These stats will then tell you exactly where to go from here gear-wise. Wowhead has a guide on how to get started (the first steps really only take a few minutes to understand) - hope its okay to link that here: http://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-simulationcraft-and-pawn

[Guest kittybleu]

haha

according to the feb 21st hotfixes we were wrong - 4 pc WAS nerfing piercing shot..

Hunter

• (Marksmanship) Piercing Shot will no longer deal less potential damage when the Focus-cost-reduction effect of the Eagletalon Battlegear (4-piece) is active.

 

Does hotfix make 4pc any more worthwhile for piercing shot builds? (guessing no)

[Vuda 1]

7 hours ago, Guest kittybleu said:

Does hotfix make 4pc any more worthwhile for piercing shot builds? (guessing no)

Quote from guide:

For users of the meme build, the 4-piece set bonus is generally not very desirable because your Trueshots are usually spend spamming Multi-Shot and Marked Shot, which is Focus positive (negating the effects of the 4-piece bonus entirely). If you have 2 better, non-tier items, you can and should replace the worst 2 tier items you have with those simply for the stats. If you are playing the meme build on a pure single-target fight, you should still use the 4pc.

[Rok 0]

Thank you for this guide. 

However, can you revise it please, guys?

Two examples that indicate the dire need for revision:

1. Where is Lock and Load with its two instant and free Aimed Shots in the priority system/queue? I assume its takes priority 1, but I'd like that confirmed in a guide like this. And....

2. Both, WorldofWargraphs.com and WowPopular.com, are showing Piercing Shot as the least popular talent of its tier, after Sidewinders and Trick Shot, yet this guide recommends Piercing Shot in both of the builds mentioned. Even if you still insist that that's the recommended talent, some explanation and mention of this being the least popular talent, and a justification for going against the most popular community choices would be expected.

Thank you.

[Vuda 1]

10 hours ago, Rok said:

 

1. Where is Lock and Load with its two instant and free Aimed Shots in the priority system/queue? I assume its takes priority 1, but I'd like that confirmed in a guide like this. And....

2. Both, WorldofWargraphs.com and WowPopular.com, are showing Piercing Shot as the least popular talent of its tier, after Sidewinders and Trick Shot, yet this guide recommends Piercing Shot in both of the builds mentioned. Even if you still insist that that's the recommended talent, some explanation and mention of this being the least popular talent, and a justification for going against the most popular community choices would be expected.

1. Use L&L procs on single target and situations where there is little aoe. On fights like Skorpyron you should use Multi+Marked on every proc or simply spam it during Trueshot.

2. Here's a quote for you:  Piercing Shot is the best choice of AoE talent and it is only slightly worse than  Trick Shot for pure single-target, and much more mobile, making it the default choice for most raiding encounters. Whenever you can hit multiple targets with it reliably, you should choose it unless you have  War Belt of the Sentinel Army which is a massive buff to Trick Shot.

The reason why Trick Shot is most picked on sites like Warcraftlogs is that everyone with top damage has BiS legendaries (in that situation it's Belt used with Trick Shot). And it's not like no one is using Piercing Shot. On most fights in NH meme build turns out to be the best talent (if u don't have the belt ofc).

I don't even know why anyone would use Sidewinders, it's pretty much useless for most of the fights and I think only casual lfr players are using it because of it's simplicity.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Vuda

[AartS 14]

In the trinket rankings, entwined elemental foci is #8 and the burning sky trinket somewhat ~20.

Yet in the BiS list, the choice is burning sky. Since i have been lucky enough to have the arcano and convergence, i use those on single target. And the convergence and burning sky on aoe fights.

But this is a bit confusing, having the #3 trinket on sims not in the BiS list. And it makes me wonder, am i making the right choice or should the elemental foci be used instead?

[Calenleya 0]

On 27/02/2017 at 10:20 AM, Rok said:

2. Both, WorldofWargraphs.com and WowPopular.com, are showing Piercing Shot as the least popular talent of its tier, after Sidewinders and Trick Shot, yet this guide recommends Piercing Shot in both of the builds mentioned. Even if you still insist that that's the recommended talent, some explanation and mention of this being the least popular talent, and a justification for going against the most popular community choices would be expected.

I have never heard of these 2 sites and their website design looks pretty basic, wowpopular mentions level 100 everywhere, which doesnt bode well for the quality of the site.

Why do you even think that the most popular choice is correct? Sidewinders was the correct talent choice pre 7.1.5, many people probably never switched because they dont care/its their alt/its easy to play/etc.

Also if you would have read on, the guide goes into detail on the lvl 100 talents and provides reasoning on all 3 choices. But it seems reading the complete guide before asking on the forum is too difficult ..

[Guest Kittybleu]

8 hours ago, AartS said:

In the trinket rankings, entwined elemental foci is #8 and the burning sky trinket somewhat ~20.

Yet in the BiS list, the choice is burning sky. Since i have been lucky enough to have the arcano and convergence, i use those on single target. And the convergence and burning sky on aoe fights.

But this is a bit confusing, having the #3 trinket on sims not in the BiS list. And it makes me wonder, am i making the right choice or should the elemental foci be used instead?

So don't count this as an official answer- but have you noticed that chart is color coded by item level? The relative position of the trinket on list (top to bottom) may not mean it's best- I think the 2 trinkets you were looking at are about the same at the basic (non-WF) ilevel. Don't forget to check that you are looking at the same ilevel when comparing trinkets.

 

on a side note- I'm loving the trinket comparison chart- but could the trinket names be bolder/ made larger? Or am I the only one who has trouble reading them..... and maybe some vertical lines at various DPS points? 

[Vuda 1]

On 28.02.2017 at 7:48 AM, AartS said:

In the trinket rankings, entwined elemental foci is #8 and the burning sky trinket somewhat ~20.

Yet in the BiS list, the choice is burning sky. Since i have been lucky enough to have the arcano and convergence, i use those on single target. And the convergence and burning sky on aoe fights.

But this is a bit confusing, having the #3 trinket on sims not in the BiS list. And it makes me wonder, am i making the right choice or should the elemental foci be used instead?

BiS list shows only items from Nighthold raid, so you won't find Arcanocrystal there.

Just like Guest Kittybleu said, there is a colored chart showing which trinket is really best, so just look at that. Or to be 100% just use simcraft.

[AartS 14]

I know i should not expect Arcanocrystal there, but the top 2 NH trinkets from the chart are not the same as those listed in BiS.

The chart sais: Convergence of Fate and Elemental Foci are rated the highest, lets assume for sake or argument base ilvl is 900 of them. Burning Sky 900 rankes significantly lower. 

Yet on the BiS list, Convergence of Fate and Burning Sky are mentioned. Howcome Azor choose a trinket ranked lower then Elemental Foci (according to the chart) to be on the BiS list instead of the elemental foci?

Perhaps its just me being stuped :( i'll try to sim the difference for my gearset. 

[Vuda 1]

1 hour ago, AartS said:

Yet on the BiS list, Convergence of Fate and Burning Sky are mentioned. Howcome Azor choose a trinket ranked lower then Elemental Foci (according to the chart) to be on the BiS list instead of the elemental foci?

You have to keep in mind that chart in the guide shows only SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE and most of the fights in Nighthold are aoe fights where Fury can show it's full potential.

[DaltonIsPanda 18]

MKII Gyroscopic Stabilizer dropped for me! Yay! I'm wondering if the single target priority changes a bit. Specifically, would Aimed Shot w/ Vulnerable  (with or without Lock and Load) be more important than Arcane Shot w/ Marking Targets proc? 

Would refreshing Vulnerable be better than getting in those extra crit chanced Aimed Shots? 

Mainly asking for during Trueshot when you have a lot of Marking Target procs.

[Aarath 0]

So, War Belt of the Sentinel Army, Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus, and Ullr's Feather Snowshoes are the 3 legendaries I have. All 940. I also have a mix of Normal/Heroic 4 set with two off pieces that are better than two of my tier pieces. I thought about running straight meme build and not changing any talents pre-pull. Is the damage difference between running pure ST (TA, PS, AMoC, TS) and meme/aoe trick shot builds drastic on a ST fight? What about the difference between meme and trick shot builds for aoe? Is the War Belt of the Sentinel Army buffed Trick shots better than Piercing Shot with/without belt? In pure ST, running meme build, should I replace War Belt of the Sentinel Army with Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus? Should I not run meme build, period? I ask here because I feel that raid time is not the time to experiment with builds. The pure ST build seems very weak, in my opinion, and I can't stand running it. I can keep up there with our heavy hitters, in my group, in aoe, but in ST, I get stomped. Do I suck, or are we that weak in ST? BTW, I am at 887 ilvl and I'd be lucky to maintain mid to low 400k on ST.

[timoseewho 0]

hi, in an aoe situation with 4+ targets, does a Lock and Load'ed AiS take priority over MS? assuming Vulnerable has been applied already. this is running PS+TS

thanks

[Vuda 1]

On 2.03.2017 at 9:33 AM, Aarath said:

So, War Belt of the Sentinel Army, Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus, and Ullr's Feather Snowshoes are the 3 legendaries I have. 

Imo Boots+Belt for aoe fights and Boots+Prydaz on pure single target, since Belt is just a statstick item with no benefits for single.

Many of the top hunters on warcraftlogs are using meme build on fights like Skorpyron but they propably just zerg it and nuke all skorpions at their entrance. I personaly don't like using Piercing Shot so I ditched meme build all together even though I don't have the belt. And like Azor said in the guide, belt is a huge boost to Trick Shot so I'd use it on aoe fights.

[Vuda 1]

On 2.03.2017 at 1:12 AM, DaltonIsPanda said:

MKII Gyroscopic Stabilizer dropped for me! Yay! I'm wondering if the single target priority changes a bit. Specifically, would Aimed Shot w/ Vulnerable  (with or without Lock and Load) be more important than Arcane Shot w/ Marking Targets proc? 

Would refreshing Vulnerable be better than getting in those extra crit chanced Aimed Shots? 

Mainly asking for during Trueshot when you have a lot of Marking Target procs.

During Trueshot your main focus should be to use as many Aimed Shots as possible. You can look at the Opener part of the guide and use it as a reference. Here's a quote from it:

The most important part is to get as many Aimed Shots off as possible before Trueshot ends. This is achieved by never capping your focus, as well as finishing the Trueshot on extremely low focus. The second-most important part is getting all of those Aimed Shots to be as late in the Vulnerable window as possible. If you never cap focus and always get 2-4 Aimed Shots off at the very end of Vulnerable, you're on the right track.

[Aarath 0]

17 hours ago, Vuda said:

Imo Boots+Belt for aoe fights and Boots+Prydaz on pure single target, since Belt is just a statstick item with no benefits for single.

Many of the top hunters on warcraftlogs are using meme build on fights like Skorpyron but they propably just zerg it and nuke all skorpions at their entrance. I personaly don't like using Piercing Shot so I ditched meme build all together even though I don't have the belt. And like Azor said in the guide, belt is a huge boost to Trick Shot so I'd use it on aoe fights.

I ran a ton of sims after I posted that and it seems the meme build is still best for me for aoe with the belt. I however, didn't sim a sidewinders build. It's the supposed middle ground for ST/AOE and not recommended, but I was really good at it. I'm curious if my numbers would improve running a sidewinders build.

[Vuda 1]

11 hours ago, Aarath said:

I ran a ton of sims after I posted that and it seems the meme build is still best for me for aoe with the belt. I however, didn't sim a sidewinders build. It's the supposed middle ground for ST/AOE and not recommended, but I was really good at it. I'm curious if my numbers would improve running a sidewinders build.

I doubt it. And what does it even mean "I was good at Sidewinders build"? :D It was brainless like arcane mages in cataclysm :P

[Aarath 0]

I know it was brainless, that's the point. I imported the vulnerable WA to see if it'll help me time those aimed shots a little better. I'd like to find Azor's Focus number WA or whatever it is instead of using a bar. I do feel like I'm spamming too many arcane shots which is probably what the biggest issue is.

[timoseewho 0]

2 hours ago, Aarath said:

I know it was brainless, that's the point. I imported the vulnerable WA to see if it'll help me time those aimed shots a little better. I'd like to find Azor's Focus number WA or whatever it is instead of using a bar. I do feel like I'm spamming too many arcane shots which is probably what the biggest issue is.

these are the 2 rules i follow outside of lust/Trueshot:

1. MS@60f->AS->AiSx2
2. Windburst@50f->ASx2->AiSx2

this guarantees you to get the last 2 AiS' during the last 4s of your Vulnerable window. you MIGHT need to adjust to your haste as i'm running 6% haste

hope this heps

edit: this is for the standard st build, if you're running Volley, the focus value at which you hit MS/Windburst will change (probably MS@70f and Windburst@60f to account for Volley focus spendage)

Edited March 5, 2017 by timoseewho

[Aarath 0]

Since I couldn't find his Focus Number WA, I found one with a bar and number and hid everything but the number.

12 minutes ago, timoseewho said:

these are the 2 rules i follow outside of lust/Trueshot:

1. MS@60f->AS->AiSx2
2. Windburst@50f->ASx2->AiSx2

this guarantees you to get the last 2 AiS' during the last 4s of your Vulnerable window. you MIGHT need to adjust to your haste as i'm running 6% haste

hope this heps

edit: this is for the standard st build, if you're running Volley, the focus value at which you hit MS/Windburst will change (probably MS@70f and Windburst@60f to account for Volley focus spendage

After both of those AiS, about how many arcanes does it seem you are spamming? Is it consistent?