Survival Hunter 7.3

[Kamiyadori 0]

26 minutes ago, Plergoth said:

SV in particular gets a small nerf to Caltrops (it is currently the second highest contribution to my damage sources in most encounters, behind Mongoose Bite obviously, I don't expect this to change with a 10% nerf) and considerable buffs to pretty much everything else that is a rotational spell for the spec as well as improving the DoT damage on Serpent Sting and Lacerate, the former of which is already the best option on the 75 row.

I'm thinking of switching to Guerrilla Tacticsm since Explosive got buffed in both direct damage and the DoT damage. Chanches are high they might be on par with each other then.

[Plergoth 277]

48 minutes ago, Kamiyadori said:

I'm thinking of switching to Guerrilla Tacticsm since Explosive got buffed in both direct damage and the DoT damage. Chanches are high they might be on par with each other then.

True, I guess I am a sucker for the baked in utility from Caltrops, and am a sucker for the sheer badassery of making stuff bleed while setting them on fire at the same time. 

[Kamiyadori 0]

34 minutes ago, Plergoth said:

True, I guess I am a sucker for the baked in utility from Caltrops, and am a sucker for the sheer badassery of making stuff bleed while setting them on fire at the same time. 

Yeah, the slow is really nice, especially in PvP and if you have to kite trash in mythic+. But in raids its not that important. Also you still have bleeding through Lacerate for example^^

Not sure about Snake Hunter. Guess if i ever get Call of the WIld, i will switch immediatly back, since aspekt CD will be about a minute and SH will be at 2 minute so it would work out in the end.^^

[Reinhilde 1]

I'm actually curious if Caltrops or Guerilla Tactics will be better dps come Tuesday.

With the buff to Explosive Trap, GT might actually come close.

Which I wouldn't hate, one less skill to use? Good. Lol.

[Kamiyadori 0]

Sad thing, we have to wait until the weekly reset. Wanted to see its full potential on our twink raid on monday :/

[Valks 2,373]

19 hours ago, Plergoth said:

I got Sephuz Secret yesterday, literally the same day it got nerfed. WTB Call of the Wild ): 

Damn that's gotta hurt :( At least the buffs are something to be happy about!

[Valks 2,373]

16 hours ago, Reinhilde said:

Which I wouldn't hate, one less skill to use? Good. Lol.

It does get a bit annoying with so many buttons to press!

To both you and everyone else, I'm certain Azor is already hard at work testing to see what will work best post-changes. It should be out in time for you all to test on live :)

[Mageblanc 0]

Why did the stat priority change by so much while the only change we had last patch was damage tweaks ?

Edited January 17, 2017 by Mageblanc
bug

[Valks 2,373]

7 minutes ago, Mageblanc said:

Why did the stat priority change by so much while the only change we had last patch was damage tweaks ?

Because when things change damage output, your priority of use changes. When your priority of use changes, you have to change the build (if there are now better or worse talents), and you have to change your gear to suit your new build.

[Mageblanc 0]

8 minutes ago, Blainie said:

Because when things change damage output, your priority of use changes. When your priority of use changes, you have to change the build (if there are now better or worse talents), and you have to change your gear to suit your new build.

Ok i get it, i'm trying to look up to the progress survival hunter's armory to confirm, so the new meta is full hast enchants right ? Damn i would have never imagined it would change like that. Ty for the answer !

[Valks 2,373]

1 minute ago, Mageblanc said:

Ok i get it, i'm trying to look up to the progress survival hunter's armory to confirm, so the new meta is full hast enchants right ? Damn i would have never imagined it would change like that. Ty for the answer !

Generally yes, but it is important to read this section:

Quote

All the stats for Survival are extremely close in value, and we strongly advise using SimulationCraft to generate stat weights for your own character. Generally, it will be the case that the stat you have the least of, will also be the best one. Therefore it makes sense to try and maintain a rough 1:1:1:1 ratio between your stats (keep them at around the same). Since Agility is much better than any secondary stat, in practice your gearing decisions will mostly always be iLvl above all, and because Versatility is much less frequent on gear, that is what you should be gemming and enchanting in almost all cases as well.

It will depend on your current stat levels.

[Plergoth 277]

Anyone got any solid info on this week's patch for seeing which is better; Caltrops or Explosive Trap with GT? 

[Reinhilde 1]

So for those curious:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#class=Hunter&spec=Survival&difficulty=3
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#class=Hunter&spec=Survival

Snake Hunter is definitely a viable option. It outperforms AMOC in heavy AoE (I assume the guaranteed 6 stacks on artifact skill is what causes that), is on par in cleave, and is outclassed by AMOC on pure single target, based on the results from Nighthold.
 

Quote

Anyone got any solid info on this week's patch for seeing which is better; Caltrops or Explosive Trap with GT? 

According to the parses in Nighthold so far, Guerilla Tactics is quite a bit behind Caltrops. Like in Normal, only 1 hunter parsed in the top 10 survival on any boss with GT. It does seem to scale better with gear though, as way more parsed in the top 10 survival in heroic. I'd like to see numbers as well, from sims. I think Caltrops is probably meant as a high risk/high reward talent, as you can't move them after you place them, whereas GT is easier to use, and results in less dps.

That said - I'm curious about why so many hunters went Animal Instincts in the heroic logs. Is there something I'm missing there? I understand swapping to Butchery for heavy AoE (cleave it seems Serpent Spread still reigns out), but for the life of me, I can't understand the Animal Instincts choice, as there already isn't really enough room in the rotation for flanking strikes on CD.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Reinhilde

[Plergoth 277]

6 hours ago, Reinhilde said:

That said - I'm curious about why so many hunters went Animal Instincts in the heroic logs. Is there something I'm missing there? I understand swapping to Butchery for heavy AoE (cleave it seems Serpent Spread still reigns out), but for the life of me, I can't understand the Animal Instincts choice, as there already isn't really enough room in the rotation for flanking strikes on CD.

Hmm, that is curious. Flanking Strike has went up a notch in contributing to dps this week, but I'm sometimes a little focus starved for it off cooldown, but it definitely does solid damage and is by far the best focus dump for us. Any idea what their gear was? Maybe there is a correlation between the Call of the Wild bracers and getting Aspect of the Eagle back off cd asap? Even with the buff, Mok Tactics is still a pretty frustrating talent. Animal Instincts may very well be providing better damage over a longer period of time when it brings other cooldowns back up, using Raptor Strike only to refresh Serpent Sting sounds way more efficient and realistically easier to maintain. 


I'm in the same opinion regarding Caltrops, it should come very slightly short of the ability if you do run with GT from what I've seen now, so unless you are in a stupidly mobile fight, you might as well stick with those. 

The pet section for SV seems a little bare atm, and since I've noticed there seems to be a lack of awareness of it in game atm, you should have the following pets for pve:

- a Netheray, as it is the only non exotic pet with access to a Timewarp / Bloodlust / Heroism cooldown

- a Moth or Crane, as they are the non BM pets with access to a combat resurrection cooldown

Everything else is pretty much personal preference. I tend to gravitate towards low profile, smaller pets otherwise, but I would definitely also recommend a pet with a defensive shield (such as a turtle or beetle) for extra flexibility, as it can help peel or take some pressure if you turn Growl on during a bad pull or in the case of a disconnect or whatever, even in Ferocity spec. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Plergoth

[Reinhilde 1]

Blainie, can you ask Azor to look more closely at the first row of talents?

As heroic nighthold continues, more and more of the top 10 SV hunters are using Throwing Axes or even Animal Instincts over Way of the Mok'nathal. For instance, on Skorpyon: 6 WotM, 3 Animal Instincts, 1 Throwing Axes.

There's also quite a few hunters using Mortal Winds over A Murder of Crows. (And still quite a few using Snake Hunter as well). - So the 2nd tier is definitely outdated, as it says AMOC is the only viable one, when the logs show completely different.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Reinhilde

[Guest Dr.Elgar]

Maybe this was answered in one of the previous comments... I understand the thought behind using fury of the eagle last... BUT wouldn't it be better to use it as soon as possible in your mongoose bite spam? If you get mongoose fury to 6 and use fury of the eagle, it gives you the extra 3-4 seconds on mongoose fury to accumulate more mongoose bites, right?

As far as GT or caltrops goes, there's no reason for sims.

(Using my Tooltips @ 860 ilevel)

Caltrops:

9225.5 dps min up to 18,451 dps at constant uptime + exp trap 116,932 + 116,930 = 233,862 then /24 = 9744.25 then *1.75 for main target = 17,052.43 DPS. Gives a total of ~26-35.5k dps

GT:

175,398 + 175, 400 = 350,798 * 1.75 = 25.5k dps

Unless you miss entirely, caltrops is still a better choice than GT, and I doubt item scaling is going to make up that large of a margin to where GT would ever be the better choice

 

[Guest Rastafever]

Draught Of Souls is Bis trinket. How should i use it? On Cd or with some other cds like Aspect of the Eagle?

[Reinhilde 1]

On 1/18/2017 at 1:04 PM, Reinhilde said:

That said - I'm curious about why so many hunters went Animal Instincts in the heroic logs. Is there something I'm missing there? I understand swapping to Butchery for heavy AoE (cleave it seems Serpent Spread still reigns out), but for the life of me, I can't understand the Animal Instincts choice, as there already isn't really enough room in the rotation for flanking strikes on CD.

Just to expand on this after talking with some of the top SV hunters- it appears AI beats out WotM and Throwing Axes once you have the 2p (even moreso after you have the 4p) due to the synergy with Flanking Strike, AI, and the 2p bonus.

Though a few of them suggested not swapping to AI until after you have the 4p.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Reinhilde

[Guest Arctos]

Frizzo's Fingertrap causes carve to refresh lacerate on single target fights now; if the target is already effected by lacerate, carve basically recasts lacerate, doing carve's damage, the lacerate initial hit, and refreshing the dot.  Is this accounted for in the sims/etc?  Does it change the legendary rankings?

[Guest Eliazer]

On 1/26/2017 at 0:12 PM, Reinhilde said:

Just to expand on this after talking with some of the top SV hunters- it appears AI beats out WotM and Throwing Axes once you have the 2p (even moreso after you have the 4p) due to the synergy with Flanking Strike, AI, and the 2p bonus.

Though a few of them suggested not swapping to AI until after you have the 4p.

I'd be curious to see the gear of the folks using AI. I'm guessing the synergy between AI, 2p and Draught of Souls could be very, very powerful in getting extra Eagles, ESPECIALLY if you have Call of the Wild.

[Guest Tom]

Why is Guarm Mastery simmed higher than Guarm Haste if haste is your top priority stat and mastery isnt?

[Valks 2,373]

On 1/18/2017 at 5:35 PM, Plergoth said:

Anyone got any solid info on this week's patch for seeing which is better; Caltrops or Explosive Trap with GT? 

Looks like Caltrops is nailing it right now.

[Valks 2,373]

On 1/22/2017 at 3:10 PM, Reinhilde said:

Blainie, can you ask Azor to look more closely at the first row of talents?

As heroic nighthold continues, more and more of the top 10 SV hunters are using Throwing Axes or even Animal Instincts over Way of the Mok'nathal. For instance, on Skorpyon: 6 WotM, 3 Animal Instincts, 1 Throwing Axes.

There's also quite a few hunters using Mortal Winds over A Murder of Crows. (And still quite a few using Snake Hunter as well). - So the 2nd tier is definitely outdated, as it says AMOC is the only viable one, when the logs show completely different.

It looks like things have pretty much solidified now and there's loads of WotM users in the top 10s. Not sure if that's as a result of the guide or because it is the best thing, but yeah, I guess that first set is pretty solid. 

As for AMOC/SH/MW, I've put in a note to Azor and we'll see what changes need to be made! 

[Valks 2,373]

On 1/23/2017 at 7:58 AM, Guest Dr.Elgar said:

Maybe this was answered in one of the previous comments... I understand the thought behind using fury of the eagle last... BUT wouldn't it be better to use it as soon as possible in your mongoose bite spam? If you get mongoose fury to 6 and use fury of the eagle, it gives you the extra 3-4 seconds on mongoose fury to accumulate more mongoose bites, right?

I believe the reasoning behind this is mentioned in the "Fury of the Eagle" section in the rotation guide page. Hopefully that should answer your question in depth.

[Valks 2,373]

On 1/23/2017 at 5:25 PM, Guest Rastafever said:

Draught Of Souls is Bis trinket. How should i use it? On Cd or with some other cds like Aspect of the Eagle?

Align it with CDs if you can, don't delay it if it prevents you from having another full use of it in the fight.