Survival Hunter 7.3

[Valks 2,373]

1 hour ago, Guest Superdemo said:

In the Tier 6 its recommened the use of Serpent Sting, however, the explanation has not been updated yet, still says why Dragonsfire Granade is better.

Will get it updated, thanks!

[Reinhilde 1]

Also, Muffinus confirmed on twitter a while ago (and petopia also confirmed) that pet-specific abilities can no longer proc mastery. So the last part about using a carrion/river beast/scorpid is outdated.
 

 

[Guest Hircine]

Wouldnt be helbrine a top leggy, now with disengage? A 30% dmg buff every 30 secs sounds strong for me. 

Kinda like the DH monentum build. You just have to keep an eye on certain mechanics, where disengage is needed. 

But other than that, its sounds like a very potent and frequent CD. 

[Guest Relmitos]

The talent section says that we should be picking Caltrops, but the rotation section doesn't say when it should be used. I would assume on cool down, but where on the priority list I've no clue.

[Reinhilde 1]

3 hours ago, Guest Hircine said:

Wouldnt be helbrine a top leggy, now with disengage? A 30% dmg buff every 30 secs sounds strong for me. 

Kinda like the DH monentum build. You just have to keep an eye on certain mechanics, where disengage is needed. 

But other than that, its sounds like a very potent and frequent CD. 

It only procs the first time you harpoon the target period. Unless the boss despawns and resets, it wouldn't be able to give you the buff again. It's why Helbrine is one of the weakest legendaries.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Reinhilde

[Reinhilde 1]

I may be wrong, but wouldn't Snake Hunter be massively viable with the Nighthold 4p?

Being able to ensure 6 stacks of fury every 2 minutes to get the 4p buff seems like it'd massively outperform Murder of Crows single target. (Especially since it also gives extra MBs at 6 stacks, as per usual).

I'm still sticking with Snake Hunter, simply because there are times where I don't get enough RNG procs to get 6 stacks of Mongoose Fury. And with something like the 4p, that could be catastrophic to my dps. Plus, it makes the rotation feel a LOT smoother (as AMOC is ANOTHER button in a ~8 button rotation).

[Metztli 0]

Is survival stronger than BM and MM now for PVE ? What numbers you guys get for AoE and on single target ?

[Valks 2,373]

On 1/10/2017 at 6:05 PM, Reinhilde said:

Also, Muffinus confirmed on twitter a while ago (and petopia also confirmed) that pet-specific abilities can no longer proc mastery. So the last part about using a carrion/river beast/scorpid is outdated.

I've now passed this on, thanks!

[Valks 2,373]

23 hours ago, Guest Hircine said:

Wouldnt be helbrine a top leggy, now with disengage? A 30% dmg buff every 30 secs sounds strong for me. 

Kinda like the DH monentum build. You just have to keep an eye on certain mechanics, where disengage is needed. 

But other than that, its sounds like a very potent and frequent CD. 

Looks like this has already been answered.

[Valks 2,373]

21 hours ago, Guest Relmitos said:

The talent section says that we should be picking Caltrops, but the rotation section doesn't say when it should be used. I would assume on cool down, but where on the priority list I've no clue.

Just quoting from the guide:

Quote

 Caltrops usage is very simple. It should be used on cooldown.

Looks like it was put further down for some reason.

[Valks 2,373]

12 hours ago, Reinhilde said:

I may be wrong, but wouldn't Snake Hunter be massively viable with the Nighthold 4p?

Being able to ensure 6 stacks of fury every 2 minutes to get the 4p buff seems like it'd massively outperform Murder of Crows single target. (Especially since it also gives extra MBs at 6 stacks, as per usual).

I'm still sticking with Snake Hunter, simply because there are times where I don't get enough RNG procs to get 6 stacks of Mongoose Fury. And with something like the 4p, that could be catastrophic to my dps. Plus, it makes the rotation feel a LOT smoother (as AMOC is ANOTHER button in a ~8 button rotation).

Didn't the 4P get nerfed to 20% rather than 50% as well? Surely that must reduce the need to play for that 4P as opposed to using AMOC.

[Valks 2,373]

3 hours ago, Metztli said:

Is survival stronger than BM and MM now for PVE ? What numbers you guys get for AoE and on single target ?

It's probably too early to say, but currently the most recent logs from EN seem to point towards all 3 specs being fairly similar. SV does seem to be on bottom on most though.

[Plergoth 277]

For those of us playing Survival, you can utilise macros to cast Caltrops and Explosive Trap similar to the way the latter was cast in 7.1, useful if you are dpsing a boss and want to simplify usage of these two rotational spells and you do not have any requirement to aim and cast it from a distance. 

/cast [@player] Caltrops

/cast [@player] Explosive Trap

I believe you can also use [@cursor] instead of [@player]. This may take some practise getting used to, especially Explosive Trap, as it will not throw the trap in front of you (and generally immediately trigger, as you should be casting it while fighting and therefore facing a boss), but place it at your feet, which will often trigger if it landed inside the hitbox. If you are dps'ing for whatever reason at the max range of 7 yards for the spec, but you don't need to, then you should get into the habit of learning to stack on the other melee for assisting the healers, or using the regular cast options to keep the uptime on those abilities if the fight is forcing you to stand further away (ie: Nythrenda rot pools). 

I'm currently using most of what IV has suggested so far from the patch talent wise (I don't regularly spec into Mok, but will try it soon as I can), my gear is 878 and I've noted a substantial dps increase on trash and single target, and my rotations feel smoother already. Still intensive and fairly complex, but definitely fun, and getting Disengage back is like going from a NES controller to a Gamecube controller. Infinitely better mobility during fights. 

[Valks 2,373]

3 minutes ago, Plergoth said:

getting Disengage back is like going from a NES controller to a Gamecube controller

Nice analogy! Thanks for sharing the macros, hopefully they can help some other SV players :)

[Plergoth 277]

No worries. :) 

Great info on the pet ability procs @Reinhilde. 

[Valks 2,373]

Indeed. I'm sure that will be updated soon! :)

[Reinhilde 1]

14 hours ago, Blainie said:

Didn't the 4P get nerfed to 20% rather than 50% as well? Surely that must reduce the need to play for that 4P as opposed to using AMOC.

That's kinda why I asked. Sims aren't up to date yet with 4p, and it seems like a guaranteed 20% boost with Snake Hunter (on top of the extra mongoose bites you'd get at 6 stacks PLUS that 20% boost) might do more than AMOC. Especially since with Snake Hunter, I can get to 6 stacks at least one more time every 2 minutes than without Snake Hunter.

From the sims I can run for a 2 minute fight, in my current gear:

AMOC: 341687 DPS
Snake Hunter: 336076 DPS

And the top survival hunter on heroic ursoc, (Phï - Ravencrest (EU) and their gear:

AMOC: 482995 DPS
Snake Hunter: 477346 DPS

So, Snake Hunter's only behind AMOC (at least in my case) by about 5-6k dps. I feel like the guaranteed 6 stacks with the 4p would probably way more than make up for that small amount of dps. (This surprised me, as the guide made it seem like Snake Hunter was REALLY far behind AMOC, but this is a rather minor amount, especially since AMOC adds yet another skill into the rotation for an already 8-9 button rotation. O_o) And it seems to scale pretty well in not going out of the 5-6k range. (It did dip to 4k and up to about 7k, with some of the hunters I simmed, but for the most part, it stayed around 5-6k)

Granted, I'm sticking to Snake Hunter, simply because the DPS loss is not very noticeable and it makes the rotation much more fluid (not adding in another skill, as previously mentioned), and helps ensure I can reach 6 stacks at least once every 2 minutes. Which is great for Aspect of the Eagle.

But I figured it might be worth figuring out if SH might actually be better if you have the 4p, cause I know there are people who like to minmax.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Reinhilde

[Valks 2,373]

2 hours ago, Reinhilde said:

That's kinda why I asked. Sims aren't up to date yet with 4p, and it seems like a guaranteed 20% boost with Snake Hunter (on top of the extra mongoose bites you'd get at 6 stacks PLUS that 20% boost) might do more than AMOC. Especially since with Snake Hunter, I can get to 6 stacks at least one more time every 2 minutes than without Snake Hunter.

It's not the ideal solution, but I would probably recommend waiting until early next week just before the reset. If there is any chance that the 4p needs to take into account some different priority in talents, I'm certain Azor will be on top of it as soon as his ongoing work starts showing so.

If you do keep using SH, please keep leaving your feedback here. It's very useful as long as there is something concrete that I can pass on to Azor.

[Guest Sacredblaze]

Sephuz is no longer activated by Ranger's net as for today 13 of january

[Valks 2,373]

33 minutes ago, Guest Sacredblaze said:

Sephuz is no longer activated by Ranger's net as for today 13 of january

Thanks, there's a note made and the guide will be updated to reflect the changes :)

[Guest Sacredblaze]

On 11/1/2017 at 10:12 PM, Plergoth said:

I believe you can also use [@cursor] instead of [@player]. This may take some practise getting used to, especially Explosive Trap, as it will not throw the trap in front of you (and generally immediately trigger, as you should be casting it while fighting and therefore facing a boss), but place it at your feet, which will often trigger if it landed inside the hitbox. If you are dps'ing for whatever reason at the max range of 7 yards for the spec, but you don't need to, then you should get into the habit of learning to stack on the other melee for assisting the healers, or using the regular cast options to keep the uptime on those abilities if the fight is forcing you to stand further away (ie: Nythrenda rot pools). 

4 letters for you sir:

H-E-R-O.

This is going to smooth the SV gameplay a lot, it will get some time to get used to but it's basically the old instant Explosive trap but deployed anywhere your cursor is.

I'm still kind of depressed about the Sephuz - Ranger's Net fix tho.. I mean it's clearly the right choice, we shouldn't have such unfair advantatge, but it's also true that we need such unfair advantatge to be somewhat competitive on a raid enviroment. 

These are the logs from my guild yesterday on EN heroic farm: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1w9FDzJKCcPgyhRv. Although I was consistenly one of the top DPS of my guild (893 ilvl), several DPS with waaaay less equipment than me (around 875 ilvl) were doing just the same or even a lot more damage than me (cough SP and Warlocks cough), my percentiles were pretty good so it's not a rotational-talents problem. Warriors, Paladins and DH are looking amazing compared to us. And BTW those logs were from yesterday  while the Sephuz bug WAS active, I don't even want to see the next recounts now that it's gone.

[Valks 2,373]

10 minutes ago, Guest Sacredblaze said:

I'm still kind of depressed about the Sephuz - Ranger's Net fix tho.. I mean it's clearly the right choice, we shouldn't have such unfair advantatge, but it's also true that we need such unfair advantatge to be somewhat competitive on a raid enviroment. 

It does seem like an odd change to make, but then at the same time, did that make Sephuz too strong in comparison to some other legendaries? Maybe they have further changes planned for Hunter (hopefully).

[Kamiyadori 0]

I'm confused why the Kil Jaeden legendary is not jet mentioned in the guide.^^ Got mine yesterday and i think it really is a good one.

[Valks 2,373]

5 hours ago, Kamiyadori said:

I'm confused why the Kil Jaeden legendary is not jet mentioned in the guide.^^ Got mine yesterday and i think it really is a good one.

Will ask for it to be added.

[Plergoth 277]

On 13/01/2017 at 1:36 PM, Blainie said:

It does seem like an odd change to make, but then at the same time, did that make Sephuz too strong in comparison to some other legendaries? Maybe they have further changes planned for Hunter (hopefully).

Speak of the devil, there is another wave of buffs for many classes and specs next week on the reset as Nighthold opens, including all three Hunter specs. :) 

SV in particular gets a small nerf to Caltrops (it is currently the second highest contribution to my damage sources in most encounters, behind Mongoose Bite obviously, I don't expect this to change with a 10% nerf) and considerable buffs to pretty much everything else that is a rotational spell for the spec as well as improving the DoT damage on Serpent Sting and Lacerate, the former of which is already the best option on the 75 row. 

I got Sephuz Secret yesterday, literally the same day it got nerfed. WTB Call of the Wild ): 

Edited January 14, 2017 by Plergoth