Arcane Mage 7.3

[Zadina 923]

46 minutes ago, Guest Ionne said:

Is it just me or is anyone else hoping something concrete will appear and be able to assure me I can still play arcane and not horribly gimp my group? I've tried fire and I just can't get into it :(

To be honest, Arcane isn't that terrible. I ran Court of the Stars yesterday with an Arcane Mage and when we summoned him and I noticed his Aluneth, I told my other 2 guildies in the group to kick him (yeah, I am slightly mean lol). Obviously, he couldn't do big numbers in trash packs with 3-4 mobs, but he performed well in bosses (either 2nd or 3rd, but with like 1-2% difference) and trashes with 5+ mobs. I didn't inspect him to see what he was wearing, I think he had the Dinosaur trinket (like me).

I believe Arcane needs gear, Fire has the same issue too, both specs get better the more gear you get. I haven't played or read about Arcane at all, but from what I have understood Blizz needs to decide what they want to do with Quickening and generally with the overall rotation, what playstyle for Arcane they want to promote.

Fire isn't difficult to get at all, you just need to have good reflexes/reaction. :) All Mage specs are easy; we don't like to admit it, but Mage isn't a hard class.

[Guest straylight]

I play Arcane because I like it. I've done Mythics and did my share in them, especially if there was very little movement involved :P I also got a lot of raised eyebrows for being Arcane, which kinda saddens me (and all these phoenix balls in the class hall), but that's life. In non-Suramar dungeons I was able to be 2nd or 3rd on bosses. I compared gear with fellow dps to be able to have a clearer picture and they usually had equal gear to mine (847), or a few levels higher. In Suramar dungeons unfortunately my DPS wasn't that good, but then again group members were also kinda better geared than me and there was also a lot of movement involved. That being said, I need a few clarifications.

1) For the Burn phase, I understand the purpose is maximum dmg during Arcane Power. I'm curious down to what percentage of mana am I expected to drop in a typical burn phase at the end of Arcane Power, right before Evocating to full again? Because in my experience I still have quite a few Blasts' worth of mana left when AP ends which I usually burn away as well before finally Evocating. Otherwise I feel like I'm not using Evocation to full. I noticed that the Opening Sequence explicitly states to go down to 0 mana

2) Do I delay casting Supernova until after the Burn phase, if it comes off CD during a burn phase? I suspect the answer here is yes, delay it, because the GCD could be used on something more damaging, but I would like a confirmation.

3) I've seen recommendations of Satyr instead of Claw for the neck enchant. Your website recommends Claw. How much better is Claw compared to Satyr?

4) 820 Infernal Alchemist Stone or an 835 stat-stick with int and haste?

 

I tried Fire to see what all the fuss is about but there's something that I just don't get about the rotation.

First off, I can't know whether my Fireball will generate a Heating Up proc until it lands on the target. But sometimes the target is far away so what do I do with that travel time while I wait to see whether I need to cast another Fireball or cast Fireblast to start up the Hot Streak?

Secondly, this:

Quote

Whenever you get a  Heating Up proc, you should convert it to a  Hot Streak using  Fire Blast. Generally, you will then want to cast a  Fireball, and immediately spend your  Hot Streak on a  Pyroblast as your  Fireball cast finishes. Both of these spells will strike at the same time, generating the largest possible ignite and the chance at an immediate follow up  Hot Streak if both of them critically strike. If only one of the spells critically strikes,  Heating Up will proc and you can immediately  Fire Blast and repeat this process.

It's that second Hot Streak I'm confused about, the one that might be generated if both the Pyro and the Fireball crit. So I treat it as before, start casting a Fireball and then releasing the Pyro together with it? The moral of the story being that I never immediately use a Hot Streak to cast the Pyro, I always have to join a Fireball to that Pyro?

Sorry for the wall of text of questions :D

[Guest ironically]

Depending on your dungeon strats and how you play as a group, arcane mage performs perfectly fine.

It's really good on single target or 5+ groups, where arcane sucks is when you have 2 or 3. So for most normal tactics and dungeons arcane sucks.

However, if your tank manages to get sick pulls, well time aluneth + arcane explosions, you can keep up quite ok with 1M+ dps. Single target bosses with quickening is also sick.

Managed 400k+ overall dps in 9min 54s of our BRH run today, although this mage is only a twink with 824 itemlevel. Don't know about fire, might have done better, maybe not. Overall really decent experience.

[Guest Guest]

I think that you are missing that Fire Blast is castable while casting.

[Guest Ionne]

Oh no I get fire. I just can't get into it. It's just not fun for me. I'm trying out arcane and seeing where it takes me so hopefully I'll be okay in groups 

[Guest Twistedmind]

Hey, a couple of things to note after reading through this.

Stats at 110:

• 1% Crit = 350 Crit Rating
• 1% Haste = 325 Haste Rating
• 1% Versatility (Damage Portion) = 400 Versatility Rating
• 1% Mastery (Arcane Charge Damage) = 700 Mastery Rating

So my first thought when looking at the changes to this guide is, how can a stat that's a 1% dps gain at 400 in value be the #1 recommended dps stat?  I could see it being weighted highly because the sim being run doesn't have any of the Versatility stat on the gear template.  And maybe the 5% character base critical chance + the 3% weapon trait is devaluing crit.  But it looks like all of the research being pulled for Vers being #1 is coming from a sim, which may not being programmed accurately.  I can't look at it myself, but I can look at a spreadsheet and say that Versatility shouldn't be overtaking crit.

=====

Next thought is about Mastery being devalued in general.  It's hard to quantify because you weigh it several different ways.  At one arcane charge, 700 rating for a 1% dps increase is abysmal.  But you could also look at it as at 4 charges, it only takes 175 rating to get that 1% dps increase.  So basically, you need to look at total spells cast at each of their current arcane charge counts to see how much of a % increase mastery is giving.

And then there's the other side of the coin.  The total spells cast in a fight will change based on how much total mana+regen you have between evocations.  Assuming you hit 0 mana every 90 seconds, you need to look at the breakdown of spells cast at 4 charges to see how good mastery is PLUS you need to do a total damage done comparison to see if you're at a breakpoint where you could have gotten out 1 more arcane blast or gotten 1 more arcane charge during those 90 seconds.

So the TLDR is that the sim calculating mastery isn't modeling something right because even basic to intermediate math can illustrate that mastery shouldn't be the worst stat, if not our number 1 stat.

=====

My last thought was to clear the air about this nether tempest + quickening dps thing.  Spamming the spell isn't the ultimate goal of the rotation.  What you're supposed to be doing it getting to 100 stacks of quickening as fast as possible while keeping nether tempest up at 100% uptime.

Essentially you want to evocate on cooldown.  And in between evocates, do whatever you need to do to keep stacking quickening.  This means spacing out ablasts, aexplosions, and missiles.  Casting explosions to refresh stacks is semi-easy because of the instant nature but standard dps rules apply, it does the best damage per cast at 3+ targets.  And it puts you vulnerably into melee range.  Spamming Tempest over and over again trying to proc missiles is also semi-safe because you can stretch your mana pool with mana free spells.  But casting Ablast is best, simply because of it's increased chance to proc missiles.  So spacing apart your casts without dropping stacks is the art and science of doing good dps with this rotation.

Also, you're not going to see crazy dps right now with this trick because it takes 4.5-5.5 minutes to reliably get to 100% quickening.  This early in the xpac, we're only seeing 2 minute fights from dungeons.  And on the longer fights, the bosses go immune or there is some mechanic that forces you to drop your quickening stacks.  Wait until raids come out and this playstyle might jump into the spotlight on 5+ minute raid fights with an intense execute phase and bosses that are attack-able one hundred percent of the time.

[Guest NotConvinced]

3 hours ago, Guest Twistedmind said:

Hey, a couple of things to note after reading through this.

Stats at 110:

• 1% Crit = 350 Crit Rating
• 1% Haste = 325 Haste Rating
• 1% Versatility (Damage Portion) = 400 Versatility Rating
• 1% Mastery (Arcane Charge Damage) = 700 Mastery Rating

So my first thought when looking at the changes to this guide is, how can a stat that's a 1% dps gain at 400 in value be the #1 recommended dps stat?  I could see it being weighted highly because the sim being run doesn't have any of the Versatility stat on the gear template.  And maybe the 5% character base critical chance + the 3% weapon trait is devaluing crit.  But it looks like all of the research being pulled for Vers being #1 is coming from a sim, which may not being programmed accurately.  I can't look at it myself, but I can look at a spreadsheet and say that Versatility shouldn't be overtaking crit.

=====

Next thought is about Mastery being devalued in general.  It's hard to quantify because you weigh it several different ways.  At one arcane charge, 700 rating for a 1% dps increase is abysmal.  But you could also look at it as at 4 charges, it only takes 175 rating to get that 1% dps increase.  So basically, you need to look at total spells cast at each of their current arcane charge counts to see how much of a % increase mastery is giving.

And then there's the other side of the coin.  The total spells cast in a fight will change based on how much total mana+regen you have between evocations.  Assuming you hit 0 mana every 90 seconds, you need to look at the breakdown of spells cast at 4 charges to see how good mastery is PLUS you need to do a total damage done comparison to see if you're at a breakpoint where you could have gotten out 1 more arcane blast or gotten 1 more arcane charge during those 90 seconds.

So the TLDR is that the sim calculating mastery isn't modeling something right because even basic to intermediate math can illustrate that mastery shouldn't be the worst stat, if not our number 1 stat.

=====

My last thought was to clear the air about this nether tempest + quickening dps thing.  Spamming the spell isn't the ultimate goal of the rotation.  What you're supposed to be doing it getting to 100 stacks of quickening as fast as possible while keeping nether tempest up at 100% uptime.

Essentially you want to evocate on cooldown.  And in between evocates, do whatever you need to do to keep stacking quickening.  This means spacing out ablasts, aexplosions, and missiles.  Casting explosions to refresh stacks is semi-easy because of the instant nature but standard dps rules apply, it does the best damage per cast at 3+ targets.  And it puts you vulnerably into melee range.  Spamming Tempest over and over again trying to proc missiles is also semi-safe because you can stretch your mana pool with mana free spells.  But casting Ablast is best, simply because of it's increased chance to proc missiles.  So spacing apart your casts without dropping stacks is the art and science of doing good dps with this rotation.

Also, you're not going to see crazy dps right now with this trick because it takes 4.5-5.5 minutes to reliably get to 100% quickening.  This early in the xpac, we're only seeing 2 minute fights from dungeons.  And on the longer fights, the bosses go immune or there is some mechanic that forces you to drop your quickening stacks.  Wait until raids come out and this playstyle might jump into the spotlight on 5+ minute raid fights with an intense execute phase and bosses that are attack-able one hundred percent of the time.

You put into words what I've been trying to say with mastery way better than I could have ever done. I have no idea why on every single mage site, forum, and guide why mastery is the bottom of the barrel stat. It's solid damage increase at 4 Arcane charges and makes it possible to stay out of needing to barrage clear every few casts in boss fights to keep damaging.

Versatility, while initially easier to gain damage for the first few arcane charges, doesn't do as much as mastery or even as much as a high crit value in the long run. At best versatility may be better when questing but for 5-mans and potentially in raids it doesn't preform as well as the benefits of higher mastery or crit. Granted I'm just the vocal minority here.

[Tigersharrk 4]

6 hours ago, Guest NotConvinced said:

You put into words what I've been trying to say with mastery way better than I could have ever done. I have no idea why on every single mage site, forum, and guide why mastery is the bottom of the barrel stat. It's solid damage increase at 4 Arcane charges and makes it possible to stay out of needing to barrage clear every few casts in boss fights to keep damaging.

Versatility, while initially easier to gain damage for the first few arcane charges, doesn't do as much as mastery or even as much as a high crit value in the long run. At best versatility may be better when questing but for 5-mans and potentially in raids it doesn't preform as well as the benefits of higher mastery or crit. Granted I'm just the vocal minority here.

Ok Twistedmind and NotConvinced then would you say a better stat priority or at least a compromise between the two are Int>Crit>Mastery>=Versa>Haste? Maybe having a close mix of versa and mastery is the key with crit coming in slightly above mastery? Plus why would blizzard give you a expansion long weapon with the wrong stats on it?

Also, I recently watched a vid by Arcane Fluffy (a guy thats obviously die hard Arcane) on stats for Arcane Mage and even though most of the vid was for PvP (as most vids are now'er days) he did cover briefly PvE as well as put some game play to show how he was applying his stats, which he has it like AMR Int>Crit>Versa>Mastery>Haste. When I asked why he actually had a good response: " Unfortunately, Blizzard hyped up our new mastery and gave us a high base stat for it, but they under tuned the living heck out of it. The little sustain it does provide does not necessarily translate into damage output. Most of the websites have guides tend to over rely on simulations, which don't account for real world application and human error. " He also said in the video that Cirt and Versa go better when it comes to gear so I'll leave you a link for the vid if you guys want to watch, like i said he briefly covers PvE before going into PvP stuff but his game play in the vid is how he is managing his resources and rotation in live application. Maybe you guys can submit an alternative guide to IV with your stats, rotation, talents (something brief) so people can play and be their own judge. As for me I will just gear both ways in hopes something more solid comes in but thank you guys for being "vocal minority" so the rest of us can get some answers and help improve Arcane while most ppl are just going to fire or dealing with mediocrity/elitist ass-hattery.

Arcane Fluffy Stats Vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZzzIgUpMpE

 

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by Tigersharrk

[Guest Hello]

It's not about zealotry, it's about the language you use while describing Arcane suggests that it is a poor dps spec.  That is simply not the case, and the response from the people here is only natural considering how unthinking most of the masses are.  When you say X is the best spec on a dps class, everyone will disregard the other two specs assuming they must be "garbage" and only play that spec.  In this case, Arcane is still a solid dps, both on single target and AoE.  What you must understand is that by the way you describe arcane in your guide, you're giving most readers the impression that they should look down on anyone playing Arcane.  We've seen an extreme example from one of those types of people in this thread suggesting that a mage be kicked solely for being Arcane.  This of course creates a backlash among players who want to play Arcane.  

[Guest NotConvinced]

3 hours ago, Guest Hello said:

It's not about zealotry, it's about the language you use while describing Arcane suggests that it is a poor dps spec.  That is simply not the case, and the response from the people here is only natural considering how unthinking most of the masses are.  When you say X is the best spec on a dps class, everyone will disregard the other two specs assuming they must be "garbage" and only play that spec.  In this case, Arcane is still a solid dps, both on single target and AoE.  What you must understand is that by the way you describe arcane in your guide, you're giving most readers the impression that they should look down on anyone playing Arcane.  We've seen an extreme example from one of those types of people in this thread suggesting that a mage be kicked solely for being Arcane.  This of course creates a backlash among players who want to play Arcane.  

Yes! Exactly! So to make sure maybe it wasn't just me I went to watch all of his legion twitch streams since launch and there wasn't a single mage let alone Arcane mage played. It was that mix that made me sketchy of this guide and want to reply, I found my own play with stats that work for me and I'm topping the dps chart most runs but still this guide feels like it's pushing me to play fire which I've never enjoyed and what's worse is because of the throngs of people who swarm Icy Veins I've had several people try and tell me the 'correct' spec pointing to this guide as to why Arcane is trash and at least a few people say word for word 'Arcane's sister specialization, Fire, outpaces it in every regard.' which is just an insult as I blow past the fire mage in AoE and come close or beat them in single target.

The worst is getting kicked from a mythic before it even starts when you're sitting at ilvl 844 and when you ask the party leader why, they state 'not fire'. This guide does zero to help us Arcane mages out, so yeah I'm going to toss out what works for me because someone needs to be in the corner for Arcane and it should be the players who like Arcane.

[Valks 2,407]

3 hours ago, Guest Hello said:

It's not about zealotry, it's about the language you use while describing Arcane suggests that it is a poor dps spec.  That is simply not the case, and the response from the people here is only natural considering how unthinking most of the masses are.  When you say X is the best spec on a dps class, everyone will disregard the other two specs assuming they must be "garbage" and only play that spec.  In this case, Arcane is still a solid dps, both on single target and AoE.  What you must understand is that by the way you describe arcane in your guide, you're giving most readers the impression that they should look down on anyone playing Arcane.  We've seen an extreme example from one of those types of people in this thread suggesting that a mage be kicked solely for being Arcane.  This of course creates a backlash among players who want to play Arcane.  

Are you referring to this statement?

Quote

Arcane is currently weak relative to competitor specs. It handles pack-to-pack AoE very well, making it okay for dungeons, but lacks the sustained damage necessary to compete on boss encounters. Arcane's sister specialization, Fire, outpaces it in every regard.

Everything that Furty currently states is in comparison to Fire - Fire DOES beat Arcane, there is no argument there. He actually states it handles AoE "very well", praising the spec, but he is simply giving a comparison for players that wish to maximise their DPS as a Mage.

Unfortunately, the guide isn't here to tell people: "Fire is good, Arcane is OK, pick whichever you want". The guides on the site are here to ensure players are aware of exactly how to maximise their DPS and which spec performs the best.

1 minute ago, Guest NotConvinced said:

This guide does zero to help us Arcane mages out, so yeah I'm going to toss out what works for me because someone needs to be in the corner for Arcane and it should be the players who like Arcane.

If it is that you wish to fight this corner, you can. Furty has still provided a guide for Arcane players, should they wish to play the spec. He is simply stating, if the players are of equal skill, Fire will beat Arcane. Of course, I could play a Shadow Priest (lowest simming class) and beat an Arms Warrior (highest simming class) in a dungeon if the skill discrepency is high enough.

It would be pointless to write a guide that accounts for simply being a weak player. If that was the case, we would have to put a disclaimer in every guide saying:

"Despite this being the strongest spec in the game, your DPS might still be low because you're playing it completely wrong."

It's also worth noting that you are saying you are essentially fighting for the "little guy" Arcane, but then you're surprised that people don't receive Arcane well. There would be no fight to be fought if Arcane was just as strong as Fire.

[Tigersharrk 4]

6 hours ago, Blainie said:

which spec performs the best.

Is the reason there is a huge problem here instead of the previous...

6 hours ago, Blainie said:

The guides on the site are here to ensure players are aware of exactly how to maximise their DPS

Which is not how its coming across at all. The subtext is saying IF you want to play Arcane here is what we found but you should roll fire like the rest of us. Instead of having someone dedicated to the spec, playing it no matter what is "best" , like NotConvinced and then passing said wisdom to other dedicated players on how to be the best overall, regardless of the majority who jump on the band wagon of Fire is better for reasons... 

Obviously Twistedmind,NotConvinced,Arcane Fluffy and the "vocal minority" dedicated to the spec have found a way or ways, not covered in the guide, to beat fire which does not make it top spec...maybe easiest to get numbers but not top. All i'm asking is that instead of just disputing Arcane's potential and their findings on how to top logs over fire you could reach out to them and say hey your doing something I could not figure out mind giving some pointers to improve our guide and make it better for those who don't want to roll Fire but be just as good.

[Guest straylight]

Does anyone have any answers to my specific questions about the rotation on page 3?

[Valks 2,407]

19 hours ago, Tigersharrk said:

Is the reason there is a huge problem here instead of the previous...

Which is not how its coming across at all. The subtext is saying IF you want to play Arcane here is what we found but you should roll fire like the rest of us. Instead of having someone dedicated to the spec, playing it no matter what is "best" , like NotConvinced and then passing said wisdom to other dedicated players on how to be the best overall, regardless of the majority who jump on the band wagon of Fire is better for reasons... 

Obviously Twistedmind,NotConvinced,Arcane Fluffy and the "vocal minority" dedicated to the spec have found a way or ways, not covered in the guide, to beat fire which does not make it top spec...maybe easiest to get numbers but not top. All i'm asking is that instead of just disputing Arcane's potential and their findings on how to top logs over fire you could reach out to them and say hey your doing something I could not figure out mind giving some pointers to improve our guide and make it better for those who don't want to roll Fire but be just as good.

You are still pushing this idea that Arcane is just as good as Fire when they play it, yet there is no definitive proof of it being so. Just because someone says, "I always beat Fire mages", doesn't mean that Arcane is better than Fire. 

As I said previously, I could play a Shadow Priest (lowest simming) and come top in a dungeon. Does that mean Shadow is just as good as Arms Warrior? Definitely not, someone like Wordup would absolutely destroy my SPriest in damage. I am 100% sure that I could go into a dungeon and play Arcane while my friend plays Fire and top the damage meters. Does that make Arcane better than Fire? No. It just makes me a better player than the other person or better geared.

If there is definitive proof of what they are suggesting, then I am 100% sure that Furty is more than happy to read through what is shown. Simply telling us that they do good damage in a dungeon means nothing.

Nobody is saying that it makes sense for Mastery to be bottom given the effect. Mastery SHOULD have been the best stat for Arcane Mages, given the effect of it. Legion changed A LOT of things, most notably the fact that Versatility is now actually VERY good for a lot of classes. Arcane Mage is one of those classes. Mathematically, Versatility is the best.

Until some actual proof is offered up that can genuinely show that Mastery outperforms Versatility in a gameplay scenario, nothing in this guide will change.

Here is a sim from Frosted, a very well respected Mage theorycrafter:

I can't really put it much better than he did.

Quote

It's just not very good it seems

 

[Guest Thulsa]

On 13.9.2016 at 3:09 PM, Guest Twistedmind said:

Hey, a couple of things to note after reading through this.

Stats at 110:

• 1% Crit = 350 Crit Rating
• 1% Haste = 325 Haste Rating
• 1% Versatility (Damage Portion) = 400 Versatility Rating
• 1% Mastery (Arcane Charge Damage) = 700 Mastery Rating

I have 11081 Mastery Rating = 31,66% = 350 Rating/1%

Am i crazy or how did you get those numbers ? Even worse is, that there are 5 different stat priorities on 5 different sites i visited. I stick with Mastery>Crit>Versatility>Haste for now, cause I'm doing quite well so far.

[Guest Sacuri]

Im not sure but if i Take a look at the BIs list and see no Item with versatility .. im confused stat prio is  int - ver-crit  why there is no item with it ? can someone explain me that pls :)

[Guest term]

Completely anecdotal, but I have been having the same experience as others. By stacking mastery I am consistently high on damage and I keep thinking these guides all have to be missing something. Even in PvP I pull higher numbers on Arcane than Fire. Both my artifacts are leveled the same. I swap out my mastery gear when switching to Fire but they are within 3 ilvls of each other. I would have sworn the opposite would be true because Fire is a lot more mobile in PvP for me. Not sure what else to say but I think you guys are missing something...

 

Wish I could add something more substantial. Actually, scratch that. Keep the info thats out there. I am enjoying being one of the few mages that are not Fire and blowing away peoples expectations.

[Valks 2,407]

22 hours ago, Guest Sacuri said:

Im not sure but if i Take a look at the BIs list and see no Item with versatility .. im confused stat prio is  int - ver-crit  why there is no item with it ? can someone explain me that pls :)

Hey there! This is because there is very little, if any, versatility gear to be found in Emerald Nightmare. The BiS list is intended to be the best gear you can find in the raid instance, but in reality, you can probably find better gear from Mythic+ in the future to meet your stat requirements.

[Valks 2,407]

34 minutes ago, Guest term said:

Completely anecdotal, but I have been having the same experience as others. By stacking mastery I am consistently high on damage and I keep thinking these guides all have to be missing something. Even in PvP I pull higher numbers on Arcane than Fire. Both my artifacts are leveled the same. I swap out my mastery gear when switching to Fire but they are within 3 ilvls of each other. I would have sworn the opposite would be true because Fire is a lot more mobile in PvP for me. Not sure what else to say but I think you guys are missing something...

Wish I could add something more substantial. Actually, scratch that. Keep the info thats out there. I am enjoying being one of the few mages that are not Fire and blowing away peoples expectations.

Could you perhaps provide a log of yourself playing the two specs, if you do have the gear for it? As I said before, I'm 100% not trying to just be the bad guy and shut people down. I just want to make sure that we can see something from the players that are claiming the performance differences. 

Thanks in advance.

[Brutalis 166]

15 hours ago, Guest term said:

Completely anecdotal, but I have been having the same experience as others. By stacking mastery I am consistently high on damage and I keep thinking these guides all have to be missing something. Even in PvP I pull higher numbers on Arcane than Fire. Both my artifacts are leveled the same. I swap out my mastery gear when switching to Fire but they are within 3 ilvls of each other. I would have sworn the opposite would be true because Fire is a lot more mobile in PvP for me. Not sure what else to say but I think you guys are missing something...

 

Wish I could add something more substantial. Actually, scratch that. Keep the info thats out there. I am enjoying being one of the few mages that are not Fire and blowing away peoples expectations.

I would also like to point out that PvP and PvE are completely different beasts, and a spec good at PvE might not be good in PvP and vis vera. Like in 6.2 where Arcane was dominating in PvE but both Fire and Frost were better in arenas and BGs, or how Sub Rogue was the best Rogue spec in HFC but in 3v3 Combat was prefered due to the burst and lockdown it provided in arenas.

Getting good numbers in PvP doesn't matter to the discussion of the fact that every sim, theorycraft and log is saying Fire does more DPS than Arcane on dummies and dungeons.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Brutalis

[Valks 2,407]

49 minutes ago, Brutalis said:

Getting good numbers in PvP doesn't matter to the discussion of the fact that every sim, theorycraft and log is saying Fire does more DPS than Arcane on dummies and dungeons.

Basically this. I'd be happy to review something that is presented to me that states otherwise, but it is yet to happen.

[Tigersharrk 4]

For the "Vocal Minority" who are still lost a PvE vid done by a true Arcane Mage, Arcane Fluffy enjoy!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLtLPkU4BFU

Default stat priorities have changed on AMR to Int>Crit>MASTERY>Versa>Haste which is whats covered in his video but Fluffy also has a Mastery build (Int>Mastery>Crit=>Versa>Haste) that he will update his followers on later. 

Enjoy and happy raiding!

[Valks 2,407]

5 hours ago, Tigersharrk said:

For the "Vocal Minority" who are still lost a PvE vid done by a true Arcane Mage, Arcane Fluffy enjoy!!!

Just watched the video and was wondering if you could point me to the part where he explains the reasoning and proof behind his stat priority? 

A time in the video would be great. I look forward to watching that part of the video.

5 hours ago, Tigersharrk said:

Default stat priorities have changed on AMR to Int>Crit>MASTERY>Versa>Haste 

What is the reasoning behind this?

[Fluffeh 2]

31 minutes ago, Blainie said:

Just watched the video and was wondering if you could point me to the part where he explains the reasoning and proof behind his stat priority? 

A time in the video would be great. I look forward to watching that part of the video.

What is the reasoning behind this?

 

 

 

I'm using the crit build of Int>Crit>Mastery>Vers>Haste because of preference, ingame testing, and common sense. For preference, I prefer the more burst centered playstyle, as the mastery build becomes more worthwhile (better stat distribution on gear) I may switch over to it, but both are performing equally if the crit doing better. 

On the stat prio: Crit is highest because the raw damage output it gives, primarily increasing the damage of arcane missles, tempest, and mark of aluneth.

Mastery is second highest. After further testing, it was shown to outperform versatility because of the extra sustain it gives, which the build lacks stacking raw damage.

Versatility is the third highest, and second most damage generating stat. The stat distribution on gear doesn't give the luxury of being able to stack it optimally.

Haste is last, because quickening gives all the haste you need. :) 

 

I don't have simulation links ( I notice you lads tend to over rely on them). I'm a bit old school and rely on ingame testing with the gear I currently have/what I will have. 

 

Sorry if english is bad! :D

Edited September 20, 2016 by Fluffeh

[Valks 2,407]

1 hour ago, Fluffeh said:

I'm using the crit build of Int>Crit>Mastery>Vers>Haste because of preference, ingame testing, and common sense. For preference, I prefer the more burst centered playstyle, as the mastery build becomes more worthwhile (better stat distribution on gear) I may switch over to it, but both are performing equally if the crit doing better. 

I see. 

1 hour ago, Fluffeh said:

I don't have simulation links ( I notice you lads tend to over rely on them). I'm a bit old school and rely on ingame testing with the gear I currently have/what I will have. 

This is generally because they eliminate human error. They make up for the fact that an individual might be better at A than B.

In all honesty, I have now reached a point where the minority can fight their corner. It pains me to say it, but there is no point in me replying anymore. The main source of theorycrafting information that 99.9% of the WoW community accepts (sims) is suddenly being thrown out the window because this minority doesn't like what it says.

Your DPS will barely suffer if you take this build, you will do slightly less than with ours and that's it. 

Once again, from Frosted. The stat weights are so similar that, in all honesty, if you want to choose a different gearing strategy, whatever. Do it. The simple truth is Fire > Arcane. That isn't changing.

You could play Arcane as Haste > Vers > Crit > Mastery and it literally wouldn't even matter, because Fire will still win. The weights are basically the same, with a 0.07 difference between the two highest and lowest.

Gear as you wish. When the simulations and testing completing by Furty reflect an increase in damage, the guide will be updated and changed. Until then, it will not be changed without mathematical PROOF of it needing to be done so.

Thanks for your video and good luck with playing Arcane. I hope I do not come off as rude, but I'm sure you can see how frustrating it is to just have people say "sims? nah, those only work for every other class in the game, but not us!".

Good day and thanks for your contribution to the site.