Assassination Rogue 7.3

[Guest uidzro]

In the opener at 6 cp we use vanish, then cast rapture.  I am noticing rapture drops a lot faster after even though I cast it with 6 cp. any idea why?

 

[Carrn 284]

Exsanguinate makes your bleeds tick extraordinarily fast, and need to be refreshed asap

[Blorgin 1]

The talent section says hemo applies a bleed, it does not, it only does static damage when cast.

[feiz 0]

8 hours ago, Progression said:

My understanding is that once we strike mobs under 35% - the value of critical strike goes drastically down; whereas, vers will continue holding its value for the whole duration of the fight.

Ah okay. Do you know what causes this? Does any spell atm have some kind of execute mechanic with automated crit or something like that? It would be really interesting to know. Thank you very much for your answer!

 

EDIT: I found the missing piece. It's the T18 Set Bonus, that gives Rupture (our now main damage component) a 30% additional crit chance for targets under 35% health. Does that also mean, that when we drop our T18 for Legion gear crit will pull ahead off v ersatility? The SImcraft mentions, that its tested with T18.

 

Edit of EDIT: @furty: could you please update in the guide that this stat priority only holds true as long as we have two pieces or more of felblade armor? once we drop it in legion for other items, crit will be stronger again.

Edited July 22, 2016 by feiz

[Carrn 284]

4 hours ago, feiz said:

Edit of EDIT: @furty: could you please update in the guide that this stat priority only holds true as long as we have two pieces or more of felblade armor? once we drop it in legion for other items, crit will be stronger again.

The guides will all be updated when Legion is out, to reflect changes such as Artifact weapons, perks, and new stat priorities.

 

[feiz 0]

1 hour ago, Carrn said:

The guides will all be updated when Legion is out, to reflect changes such as Artifact weapons, perks, and new stat priorities.

 

I did not know that. Thank you very much for clarification.

[Dexter 0]

I re-thought about an opener that I heard on a stream of Furty. (Don't know who was talking tho - might've been noxe?)

The idea is to open up with Garrote followed up with a Hemorrhage and a 2CP Rupture (so we can snapshot that later on). Spam your way up to 6CPs, vendetta (in legion much better to do AFTER Mutilate spam due to artifact trait), vanish and snapshot rupture for an even longer duration. Then just use Exsanguinate. That should do a lot more dmg, right? 

[Carrn 284]

3 hours ago, Dexter said:

I re-thought about an opener that I heard on a stream of Furty. (Don't know who was talking tho - might've been noxe?)

The idea is to open up with Garrote followed up with a Hemorrhage and a 2CP Rupture (so we can snapshot that later on). Spam your way up to 6CPs, vendetta (in legion much better to do AFTER Mutilate spam due to artifact trait), vanish and snapshot rupture for an even longer duration. Then just use Exsanguinate. That should do a lot more dmg, right? 

From the sounds of it, it's not a bad idea. I have 2 theories about it though:

1) With the Ring and such regularly being popped on the pull it's probably more beneficial to get Vendetta up asap

2) We have a pretty high amount of Energy regen right now due to gear level, but come Legion this will no longer be the case. Having an earlier second bleed up will probably therefore be more beneficial, in order to grant more energy through Venom Rush.

The difference is probably very slim, but for the time being I'd probably recommend continuing with the opener listed in the guide unless math shows otherwise.

[Guest Xouls]

On 23.7.2016 at 6:43 PM, Dexter said:

I re-thought about an opener that I heard on a stream of Furty. (Don't know who was talking tho - might've been noxe?)

The idea is to open up with Garrote followed up with a Hemorrhage and a 2CP Rupture (so we can snapshot that later on). Spam your way up to 6CPs, vendetta (in legion much better to do AFTER Mutilate spam due to artifact trait), vanish and snapshot rupture for an even longer duration. Then just use Exsanguinate. That should do a lot more dmg, right? 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CpZ6yPtcRHYD8TmM#type=casts&fight=27&start=5398830&end=5418429&source=35&view=timeline

That's what you are talking about.

[Carrn 284]

4 hours ago, Furty said:

Going to update it into the guide in my next round of changes as well as a notation that 5-6CP Rupture is currently better than 6CP Rupture (to avoid CP overflow from Mut). 

Noted, thanks Furty

[Guest Guest]

Will Master poisoner be at all competitive, or even viable in legion? Seems very odd that they give the mastery bonus to poisons, center the artifact weapon around poisons, make the majority of our end game gear give mastery to some extent, and then balance the talents on hemo/exang. Not disagreeing with the talent guide right now, its painfully obvious that we only have one real route to go in this regard, but I am kinda bummed with the changes so far. I didnt want to spend this spec being a melee aff lock, ya know?

[Guest Guest]

On 7/19/2016 at 4:28 PM, Progression said:

I'm noticing the Stone of Elements can no longer be upgraded. With this making it sit at 715 - Do you think the 725 Skull of War will be better suited with the BoA on Demon fights?

Confirming this is not the case. I crafted a stone of the elements sometime last week, and presumably saw what you saw, i.e. 715 with no possibility for valor upgrade. I logged in the next day and I was suddenly able to roll it to 725. I am not sure how the legion trinket ranks, but I have the Infallible tracking charm (715) and Stone of the elements at (725) equipped. Using this guide as reference i can dump about 70k dps over the course of a heroic Archie fight. Im only 718 ilvl. I think the tracking charm can proc off of bleed/poison tics as well, but cant quite confirm yet through all the choas of that fight. Interestingly enough, leeching poison seems to heal

 

 off your bleed and poisons tics on the dummys. Not sure about a real fight, again im not focused on that enough to confirm.

[MrOger 20]

I saw no answer for this question anywhere, so i guess it`s right place to ask it.

How exactly Exsanguinate works? Does it speeds up counting remaining duration, or overall duration? I mean - if we currently have 15 of 28 sec rapture, will it`s remaining damage be stored in 5-6 sec or in 3-4?

Also how reapplying rapture works with existing speeded up rapture?

Edited July 30, 2016 by MrOger
My english grammar sucks :D

[Carrn 284]

Whatever the remaining duration is on them will be over 4x faster.

Because the ticks of the short Rupture happen so quickly, I'd wait until it expires to apply the new one. Have 6s CPs ready at the end though, to reapply it instantly

[Guest Evium]

On 30/7/2016 at 2:52 PM, Carrn said:

Whatever the remaining duration is on them will be over 4x faster.

Because the ticks of the short Rupture happen so quickly, I'd wait until it expires to apply the new one. Have 6s CPs ready at the end though, to reapply it instantly

I have a problem with this though. As you know, using exsanguinate makes your energy regen go crazy because of venmous wounds. I find my self using this energy to spam mutilate then envenom to not energy cap while the exsanguinated rupture ticks down to 0. But timing this 6 rupture without capping energy and meanwhile spamming mutilate and envenom sometimes result in a clean transition with the ruptures and other times I find myself having rupture down for 2~ seconds as I just envenomed as the exsanguinated rupture was about to expire to not energy cap. Hope it is clear enough to understand.

[Carrn 284]

1 hour ago, Guest Evium said:

I have a problem with this though. As you know, using exsanguinate makes your energy regen go crazy because of venmous wounds. I find my self using this energy to spam mutilate then envenom to not energy cap while the exsanguinated rupture ticks down to 0. But timing this 6 rupture without capping energy and meanwhile spamming mutilate and envenom sometimes result in a clean transition with the ruptures and other times I find myself having rupture down for 2~ seconds as I just envenomed as the exsanguinated rupture was about to expire to not energy cap. Hope it is clear enough to understand.

Yeah, it's a tricky thing. If you don't crit at all you won't have an issue, but if you crit twice you'll go over on CP. It really depends what else is going on... Maybe you can put a small Rupture (3-4 cp) on a secondary target? Or throw a small envenom in? Whatever works for you, so you can keep 6 cp Rupture rolling on your main target all the time

[Guest Chiefluffe]

hey .. im just looking around for some info about my rogue .. and im a bit confused about the stats on this one .-.. u say that haste is at the buttom of the list for stats .. even so the rogue ur building ur stats around .. furty .. he has haste on alot of items .. almost the best stat he has .. how can that be ?? ..

 

[Carrn 284]

2 hours ago, Guest Chiefluffe said:

hey .. im just looking around for some info about my rogue .. and im a bit confused about the stats on this one .-.. u say that haste is at the buttom of the list for stats .. even so the rogue ur building ur stats around .. furty .. he has haste on alot of items .. almost the best stat he has .. how can that be ?? ..

 

Item level is still the most important thing, because higher level items have more Agility on them which will always be the best stat.

Additionally, just because a stat is on the bottom of the list doesn't mean that it's bad. For example, if Versatility is worth 6 points, Mastery and Crit are worth 4 points, and Haste is worth 3 points, an item that has Vers and Haste might be worth more (9 points) compared to an item with Crit and Mastery (8 points)

The actual math behind choosing an item is a bit more complicated than that, but hopefully that gives you a basic idea and explains why some Rogues will have lots of a stat which otherwise might be bad.

[Guest tale]

The rotations section is written for using the raid build from the cheat sheet setup.  If I'm instead using the casual solo/dungeon setup, is this what it works out to?

1. Maintain Rupture on primary and secondary targets (up to 3 targets).
2. Activate Vendetta on the primary target when it is off cooldown.
3. Activate Vanish if off cooldown and you have 5 Combo Points, then Mutilate.
5. Maintain Garrote on the primary target.
7. Cast Envenom to spend extra Combo Points.
8. Cast Mutilate to generate Combo Points.

Thanks for the guide!  My main raider is a mage but I like to have basic competence in all the classes.

[Guest Evium]

Hi this question is not direct to the guide so correct me if this is not the right place. But I have experienced sometimes that when I envenom it does not go off, think it even happend twice in a row? anyone else tried this ?

[Carrn 284]

On 8/4/2016 at 2:37 PM, Guest tale said:

The rotations section is written for using the raid build from the cheat sheet setup.  If I'm instead using the casual solo/dungeon setup, is this what it works out to?

1. Maintain Rupture on primary and secondary targets (up to 3 targets).
2. Activate Vendetta on the primary target when it is off cooldown.
3. Activate Vanish if off cooldown and you have 5 Combo Points, then Mutilate.
5. Maintain Garrote on the primary target.
7. Cast Envenom to spend extra Combo Points.
8. Cast Mutilate to generate Combo Points.

Thanks for the guide!  My main raider is a mage but I like to have basic competence in all the classes.

If you'd like to come have a discussion about this over in the Rogue Forums, we can talk about this more in-depth but I don't believe this thread is the best place for it.

[Guest Banksy]

Casual player here. But love theory crafting when I have time. Does anyone know if the bleeds from Shattered Hand enchants (1 on each dagger) give good number comparisons to the suggested enchants? Considering Hemorrhage and if there is any other talents/passives I'm not remembering as part of Assassination? I'm guessing it doesn't keep up with how much you would get from Shadowmoon and Thunderlord, but didn't see it mentioned anywhere.

[MrOger 20]

On 30.07.2016 at 3:52 PM, Carrn said:

Whatever the remaining duration is on them will be over 4x faster.

Because the ticks of the short Rupture happen so quickly, I'd wait until it expires to apply the new one. Have 6s CPs ready at the end though, to reapply it instantly

Thanks a lot for explanation of these.

Still i`m not sure why we are going for versatility over crit. 100 crit giving us more damage than 100 versatility both directly (more % damage) and indirectly (additional cp gain). About t18 2 bonus - it doesn`t seems like we can go over 70% base critchance, so why crit becomes inferior at this point?

[Carrn 284]

7 hours ago, MrOger said:

Thanks a lot for explanation of these.

Still i`m not sure why we are going for versatility over crit. 100 crit giving us more damage than 100 versatility both directly (more % damage) and indirectly (additional cp gain). About t18 2 bonus - it doesn`t seems like we can go over 70% base critchance, so why crit becomes inferior at this point?

When your Crit Chance is at a point where you will nearly always be getting critical hits, or at the very least probably getting critical hits when you need them, its value falls.

I think I mentioned it above, but the values for both Crit and Vers are very very close. Vers is slightly ahead, however, which is why it's listed as the priority

[Guest Genweas]

Exsanguinate is now only increasing bleed effects by 100% now instead of 400%.  It's a huge game changer.  Can we get an update to this?  Does this make Master Poisoner/Agonizing Poison competitive?