Assassination Rogue 7.3

[Guest Elco]

Hey, I don't believe Entwined Elemental Foci from Spellblade Aluriel is mentioned on the trinket list.

Is it any good?

[Carrn 284]

On 03/02/2017 at 11:58 PM, Guest Elco said:

Hey, I don't believe Entwined Elemental Foci from Spellblade Aluriel is mentioned on the trinket list.

Is it any good?

Not particularly. Remember though that ilevel is important, and you should Sim whatever trinkets you get before picking what is the absolute best

 

[Valks 2,373]

On 2/3/2017 at 11:58 PM, Guest Elco said:

Hey, I don't believe Entwined Elemental Foci from Spellblade Aluriel is mentioned on the trinket list.

Is it any good?

Just to add to what Carrn said above, the trinket list is assuming every trinket has the same item level. An 820 HotP definitely won't be better than a 880 Memento, for example.

[Guest Fast]

are there any changes about the choosen Talents maybe after the last hotfix?

[Valks 2,373]

5 minutes ago, Guest Fast said:

are there any changes about the choosen Talents maybe after the last hotfix?

Not that I am aware of, but I'll check with Furty.

[Roguerzz 0]

Is EP more viable now with 4 piece?

[Guest Mr Lucky]

Hey, fellow rogues!  First, I need to apologize to Blainie because I think this post is going to get the "you put this in the wrong thread" reply.

My question is PvP related.  There is a thread for Outlaw, but not Sin, and I wanted to get some thoughts.

The common builds for PvP include MP, Alacrity, and Unfair Advantage, amongst the usual suspects.  Any website or video I watch says go with those.  However, to me, it seems like there is some synergy between EP, Alacrity, and Honor Among Thieves.  

HAT allows faster combo point building, meaning more finishers and more EP uptime.  12% increased damage at all times, rather than 20% increased crit damage (~1/4 of all hits for me) only when I have a higher percentage of health seems a bit better.

Then, since we've got more finishers, Alacrity is stacking faster, too, for more energy and even faster cp building.

Has anyone tried this setup?  How did it work?  If viable at all, would it only be in BG's where there are a lot of players, but maybe not so much in 2v2 or 3v3?

Thanks for your input!

[Furty 51]

On 2/8/2017 at 0:59 PM, Guest Fast said:

are there any changes about the choosen Talents maybe after the last hotfix?

Nope.

10 hours ago, Roguerzz said:

Is EP more viable now with 4 piece?

Not related to the 4-piece, but it is close in value and a better option if you are playing without Agonizing (low gear levels).

[Valks 2,373]

18 hours ago, Guest Mr Lucky said:

First, I need to apologize to Blainie because I think this post is going to get the "you put this in the wrong thread" reply.

It is in the wrong thread, but I'll answer it anyway!

19 hours ago, Guest Mr Lucky said:

Has anyone tried this setup? 

The issue is, by getting rid of MP, you lose your improved healing debuff. You are also counting on Honor Among Thieves, which:

• Has to be triggered by an ally crit.
• That ally has to be within 15 yards of you.
• Can only grant 1 CP per 2 seconds.

The biggest ones here are the distance and CP problems.

Distance - you have to rely on your nuke target to actually be close enough to your teammate which, if you're playing with a ranged DPS and a healer that is trying to kite, simply might not happen during your nuke.

Only being able to happen once per 2 seconds means that you have to rely on your team mates only critting when you need them to. Nuke phases don't last very long and, given that the enemy healer will try to kite, you will likely encounter those distance issues again. You then also need to remember that HAT can trigger at max combo points and still trigger the CD, so you've basically wasted it.

[Komun 0]

So i just notice in the guide now its using master poisoning, i want to know everybody opinion about MP vs Elaborate Planning since i made some dummy test and found no significant difference

Thx

[Furty 51]

4 hours ago, Komun said:

So i just notice in the guide now its using master poisoning, i want to know everybody opinion about MP vs Elaborate Planning since i made some dummy test and found no significant difference

Thx

EP is only worthwhile when you are playing without Agonizing. 

[Valks 2,373]

On 2/10/2017 at 4:15 PM, Komun said:

So i just notice in the guide now its using master poisoning, i want to know everybody opinion about MP vs Elaborate Planning since i made some dummy test and found no significant difference

Thx

This is explained in more detail in the guide already:

Quote

 Master Poisoner is currently the best choice for most situations. This talent shifts the stat priority towards a heavy Mastery setup, and should be used in combination with the  Agonizing Poison talent. It also massively increases the potency of your  Bag of Tricks.

 Elaborate Planning is the best option on 2 targets by a small margin. It is slightly behind  Master Poisoner on single target. It is potentially a good choice in dungeons when you are constantly applying  Ruptures to new targets

So:

• Single target and using AP? Use MP.
• Single target and no AP? Use EP.
• Multi target? EP.

[Guest Shasya]

Hey Again!

Good to see that the guide is developing more and more!

Question: In the BiS trinket section, the first is CoF and the second is arcanogolem digit and the 8th one is the Nightblooming frond.. But if i take a look at the new page, the boss strategies, i see  u recommend for almost every fight the NBF and the CoF. i know, u wrote it down that it can make the best dps (if the NBF proccs well) but still wondering that why it is in the 8th place. 
Another question: i have 875 eternal urn and a 880 NBF. and i cant decide which one is better. if i take the urn, i have 147 % mastery, if not i have 136% mastery. But the NBF have a little more agi and the proccs can be brutal sometimes. im switching them for single and multi targets (NBF for single and EU for multi) but still cant decide which one is better for single. (iknowiknow i should simcraft it, but i cant use properly the simcraft and when i did it, it result me with the NBF, but it's not sure coz of the proccrate.)

Thx for the quick response ;) keep up the good work!
 

[Valks 2,373]

2 minutes ago, Guest Shasya said:

Question: In the BiS trinket section, the first is CoF and the second is arcanogolem digit and the 8th one is the Nightblooming frond.. But if i take a look at the new page, the boss strategies, i see  u recommend for almost every fight the NBF and the CoF. i know, u wrote it down that it can make the best dps (if the NBF proccs well) but still wondering that why it is in the 8th place. 

Is it basically because of the procs. It is not just unreliable, it can be an absolutely awful if you get a bad streak of procs.

3 minutes ago, Guest Shasya said:

Another question: i have 875 eternal urn and a 880 NBF. and i cant decide which one is better. if i take the urn, i have 147 % mastery, if not i have 136% mastery. But the NBF have a little more agi and the proccs can be brutal sometimes. im switching them for single and multi targets (NBF for single and EU for multi) but still cant decide which one is better for single. (iknowiknow i should simcraft it, but i cant use properly the simcraft and when i did it, it result me with the NBF, but it's not sure coz of the proccrate.)

Yeah, for NBF, SimCraft takes the ideal situation of the average procs. When you have a massive number of iterations, this is totally fine. If it does well, NBF will be great, but as above, it's just whether or not you want to take the chance on its procs.

[Heito 0]

Hi

I suggest new opening with Mantle of master assassin.

Garrot

Mutilate

Rupture

Mutilate

Envenom

Vendetta

Kingsbane

Mutilate

Envenom

Mutilate *2 to 5cp

Vanish

Waiting full energy (3-4sec). 100% crit during this time

Rupture

Garrot

Mutilate

Envenom

[Furty 51]

If you're playing with Mantle you want to instead use Draught of Souls and line it up with your guaranteed critical windows. You'll also want to Vendetta before your Vanish so you're not pooling during the buff. Most players are opening with Draught before applying Garrote>Mut>Rupture>Alternate Mut/Env>Vendetta>Vanish>Kingsbane>normal priority.

To be honest though the order of execution in the opener has hardly any effect as long as you don't waste resources.

[Jaredius 2]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 7:43 PM, Furty said:

If you're playing with Mantle you want to instead use Draught of Souls and line it up with your guaranteed critical windows. You'll also want to Vendetta before your Vanish so you're not pooling during the buff. Most players are opening with Draught before applying Garrote>Mut>Rupture>Alternate Mut/Env>Vendetta>Vanish>Kingsbane>normal priority.

To be honest though the order of execution in the opener has hardly any effect as long as you don't waste resources.

Regardless of having the Mantle, why would we not Vendetta before Vanish>5cp Rupture>Kingsbane? Your guide shows an opening sequence where Vendetta occurs after Vanish and 5pt Rupture. You're missing Vendetta's 30% dmg increase on that Rupture? Or, does Vendetta's damage increase affect that Rupture after it has already been cast?

Guide recommendations below:

1. Use Potion of the Old War.
2. Apply Garrote.
3. Cast Mutilate.
4. Apply Rupture.
5. Cast Mutilate until CP cap.
6. Activate Vanish and apply Rupture.
7. Activate Vendetta on the primary target.
8. Use any active racials, such as Berserking.
9. Cast Kingsbane.

What makes napkin sense to me:

1. Use Potion of the Old War.
2. Apply Garrote.
3. Cast Mutilate.
4. Apply Rupture.
5. Cast Mutilate until CP cap.
6. Activate Vendetta on the primary target.
7. Activate Vanish and apply Rupture.
8. Use any active racials, such as Berserking.
9. Cast Kingsbane.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Jaredius

[Valks 2,373]

1 hour ago, Jaredius said:

Or, does Vendetta's damage increase affect that Rupture after it has already been cast?

It does, yeah. Just tested it in game a few times.

[Karseroui 0]

In enchants the author says for neck is mark of the tainted soldier but when i see in armory both the rogues that have written this guide have mark of the hidden satyr!!!

Anyone know which is best currently?

[Furty 51]

10 hours ago, Karseroui said:

In enchants the author says for neck is mark of the tainted soldier but when i see in armory both the rogues that have written this guide have mark of the hidden satyr!!!

Anyone know which is best currently?

This is something I have been testing recently (only just swapped back to Satyr). Haven't really found a consistent answer - they seem to be almost identical on a single target, with Satyr having perhaps a marginal edge, while Soldier definitely has the edge for AoE. Would say personal preference here but I'm going to stick with Satyr for now as the bosses I'm progressing on (Elisande & Gul'dan Mythic) are both largely single target oriented.

[Guest Guestz]

Isn't hidden satyr damage increased by agonizing poison?

[Guest janillos]

what kind of profession its better for rogues, alchemist? enchanting? peltry? or do you suggest any other? another question if, i can use the same rotation in pve and pvp? thanks you very much

 

[Valks 2,373]

6 hours ago, Guest janillos said:

what kind of profession its better for rogues, alchemist? enchanting? peltry? or do you suggest any other? another question if, i can use the same rotation in pve and pvp? thanks you very much

 

In honesty, it just doesn't matter anymore - in Legion, the professions don't change your output as they did in previous expansions. You can choose whatever you feel is best for money making!

As for rotation, yes and no - PvP is often revolving around the idea of "burst windows". PvE expects you to maintain the highest amount of DPS possible at every second during a large 6+ minute window, right? In PvP, you could AFK for the first 3 minutes in theory, then simply get a perfect burst window and win the game. Nobody would care because you won. 

You need to alter the rotation slightly to fit what you are playing against, for example using Vanish-Garrote, Vanish-Cheap, lining up cooldowns for maximum burst rather than just throwing them on cooldown.

[Carrn 284]

8 hours ago, Guest janillos said:

what kind of profession its better for rogues, alchemist? enchanting? peltry? or do you suggest any other? another question if, i can use the same rotation in pve and pvp? thanks you very much

 

To elaborate on what Blainie said:

PvP as an Assassination Rogue does revolve around putting out the most damage that you can, in similar fashion to PvE, but you have a number of tools as a Rogue which you need to be using to the best of your ability. Kidney Shot and Blind are two of the strongest CC abilities in the game, and a very large part of being effective in PvP is knowing when and who to use these abilities on.

There's a few changes though, to both talents and how you use your abilities. 

Your talents are more effective if you run Elaborate Planning, Subterfuge, either Deeper Stratagem or Vigor, Elusiveness, either Prey on the Weak or Internal Bleeding, Alacrity, and Venom Rush.

Vanish becomes a defensive spell and not one that you use to gain more damage. Feint is a very strong cooldown with Elusiveness, and will save your life if your opponents target you. 

There are some extra subtleties in choosing your opener and other skills, as Blainie mentioned, and if you'd like to discuss these more at length I'd like to invite you to make a topic over on the Rogue Forums and we can have a chat there without polluting this thread too much. I love talking about PvP haha

[Valks 2,373]

3 hours ago, Carrn said:

I love talking about PvP haha

I knew you got excited about Rogues, but this is new! ;D