Outlaw Rogue 7.3

[Guest Blayke]

Any word on when Shadowcraft will be up and running again?  Damn, I sure do miss it!  :(

[Carrn 284]

5 hours ago, Guest Blayke said:

Any word on when Shadowcraft will be up and running again?  Damn, I sure do miss it!  :(

They're working on ironing out a few bugs. It should mostly work for the time being but it's not finished yet

[Guest Bragoer]

At start  i use  marked for death to get combo and roll.  How do u roll again if its less than 2+ buf without combo points? 

 

Roll till 2+ buff means,  slice to get combo and roll? 

[Carrn 284]

2 hours ago, Guest Bragoer said:

At start  i use  marked for death to get combo and roll.  How do u roll again if its less than 2+ buf without combo points? 

 

Roll till 2+ buff means,  slice to get combo and roll? 

Spend your combo points on Roll the Bones until you have 2 buffs.

[ddkil 3]

Was there a nerf today or not?I feel like doing less dmg this week.Or its just my raid fellows are doing better..

[Carrn 284]

1 minute ago, ddkil said:

Was there a nerf today or not?I feel like doing less dmg this week.Or its just my raid fellows are doing better..

A (very) slight nerf, but many other classes got buffed

[Valks 2,373]

40 minutes ago, ddkil said:

Was there a nerf today or not?I feel like doing less dmg this week.Or its just my raid fellows are doing better..

If you'd like to see the nerf that Carrn is talking about, you can see everything that changed here: 

Hope it helps!

[Guest phup]

how slight the nerf was, is in the eye of the beholder.  In my case, the ability that accounts for about 45%+ of my damage was nerfed by 6% and costs 13% more energy.  And RtB costs me 25% more energy than it did.  This makes rerolling a single buff (especially in a zero haste build, outside of AR) extremely punishing.  It doesn't "feel" slight to me, for what that's worth.  And I only had one relic in those traits.  Others with more RT or energy relics were hit harder.  It is not only a solid 5%+ dps loss on average, but it increased the RnG variance since rerolling is now more expensive.  Just makes it harder to get the somewhat predictable damage bursts at somewhat predictable time windows that you need for higher level raiding.

There aren't a ton of mythic parses yet, but outlaw is currently way behind sub and assassination in overall mythic performance.  And in heroic where there are a lot parses, it's clearly behind assassination and basically tied with sub.  On top of that, everyone is saying it doesn't scale.  Frustrating if you have poured a lot of AP into it. 

Speaking of zero haste outlaw builds.  When I start trading out vers/crit for haste, my character sims higher.  At least up to a point, and then haste falls back below the other.  I think saying flatly that haste is the worst secondary is not true. Up to some haste percentage (probably not an exact point and gear dependent, but for me, seems to be about 10%),  it is at least as valuable as the other secondaries if not the most valuable.

 

[Valks 2,373]

On 9/29/2016 at 10:25 PM, Guest phup said:

There aren't a ton of mythic parses yet, but outlaw is currently way behind sub and assassination in overall mythic performance.  And in heroic where there are a lot parses, it's clearly behind assassination and basically tied with sub.  On top of that, everyone is saying it doesn't scale.  Frustrating if you have poured a lot of AP into it. 

I'm not sure where you're seeing this information tbh. From what I can see, there are still plenty of top parses as Outlaw after the 28th on a lot of fights. It's more even with Assass now, sure, but I'm not seeing "way behind" at all. Could you show me where you're seeing this?

On 9/29/2016 at 10:25 PM, Guest phup said:

Speaking of zero haste outlaw builds.  When I start trading out vers/crit for haste, my character sims higher.  At least up to a point, and then haste falls back below the other.  I think saying flatly that haste is the worst secondary is not true. Up to some haste percentage (probably not an exact point and gear dependent, but for me, seems to be about 10%),  it is at least as valuable as the other secondaries if not the most valuable.

The Outlaw guide wasn't updated post-patch yet due to Furty being super busy with progression. You can expect an update soon for sure now that the raiding is finished, he just didn't have the time before. I can only say sorry on that front, but I'll pass on your comments!

[Guest piks]

Pretty sure we should enchant Hidden Satyr and not Mark of the Claw. Simcraft says satyr is stronger

[Valks 2,373]

4 hours ago, Guest piks said:

Pretty sure we should enchant Hidden Satyr and not Mark of the Claw. Simcraft says satyr is stronger

Will ask Furty to double check, thanks.

[Guest Afilada]

I'm trying to bring up my dps and therefore reviewing this again. The first time when legion hit it seemed like it might be a bit out of date after reading the comments but it seems like some of it has been updated. However, going over this with a fine-toothed comb raises some questions. For example, how is one supposed to interpret a series of statements like this:

"Ghostly Strike is best for all situations. For general purpose use Quick Draw is currently the most desirable option on the tier due to the high consistency and damage output it offers."

So, the best isn't the most desirable option... why? Which do i want here?

[Carrn 284]

On 29/09/2016 at 10:25 PM, Guest phup said:

how slight the nerf was, is in the eye of the beholder.  In my case, the ability that accounts for about 45%+ of my damage was nerfed by 6% and costs 13% more energy.  And RtB costs me 25% more energy than it did.  This makes rerolling a single buff (especially in a zero haste build, outside of AR) extremely punishing.  It doesn't "feel" slight to me, for what that's worth.  And I only had one relic in those traits.  Others with more RT or energy relics were hit harder.  It is not only a solid 5%+ dps loss on average, but it increased the RnG variance since rerolling is now more expensive.  Just makes it harder to get the somewhat predictable damage bursts at somewhat predictable time windows that you need for higher level raiding.

 

I mean, it's not insignificant, but it is slight. Roll the Bones is designed to be a skill that pays off big time when it's good, but is relatively lacklustre when it doesn't. That's the RNG nature of the spec. 

On 29/09/2016 at 10:25 PM, Guest phup said:

There aren't a ton of mythic parses yet, but outlaw is currently way behind sub and assassination in overall mythic performance.  And in heroic where there are a lot parses, it's clearly behind assassination and basically tied with sub.  On top of that, everyone is saying it doesn't scale.  Frustrating if you have poured a lot of AP into it. 

No it really isn't. If you have a look at the rankings, there is 1 Sub Rogue in the top 10 parses for 1 fight, and Outlaw is everywhere. Nythendra 7 of the top 10 are Outlaw. Il'gy has 8/10, Ursoc is 6/10 with 4 of the top 5, and Dragons has 9/10 Outlaw with the 1st place being Sin. Literally the only fight that has fewer Outlaw Rogues than any other fight is Elerethe, where 7/10 are Sin

Even ignoring Mythic parses, the Heroic ones are even more one-sided. 13/70 Rogues on that list are Assassination, absolutely 0 are Sub, and the rest are Outlaw.

Outlaw is, with current Sims in Heroic gear levels, about 13k behind Assassination, which is the top performing spec. That's not a lot, especially when you consider that it will continue to scale better than Sin; it's even more of a non-issue when you consider that the spec is specifically designed around having very VERY high highs and lows that are only a little below average.

On 29/09/2016 at 10:25 PM, Guest phup said:

Speaking of zero haste outlaw builds.  When I start trading out vers/crit for haste, my character sims higher.  At least up to a point, and then haste falls back below the other.  I think saying flatly that haste is the worst secondary is not true. Up to some haste percentage (probably not an exact point and gear dependent, but for me, seems to be about 10%),  it is at least as valuable as the other secondaries if not the most valuable.

The guide was written from the perspective of higher gear, where Haste won't be valuable because so much of it will be available passively. I've mentioned a couple times here in the thread that Haste is quite valuable for the first little while, and it will be changed in the guide presumably when Furty gets the opportunity.

[Guest Aksertos]

Hello guys.I have 1 question about rotation.What I have to do when I reroll the bones and still have 1 buff 5 or 6 time and I starting to have 80-140 dps while rerolling.

Sorry for my English,I hope you understand my problem and have a nice day

[Carrn 284]

15 hours ago, Guest Aksertos said:

Hello guys.I have 1 question about rotation.What I have to do when I reroll the bones and still have 1 buff 5 or 6 time and I starting to have 80-140 dps while rerolling.

Sorry for my English,I hope you understand my problem and have a nice day

Keep rolling

[Guest Oath]

Hey Guys,

In Relic choice, what do you mean by "About 40 relics item levels"? Do you mean should choose a  835 Runtrought Relics over any "bad" relics that are not over 875?

[Valks 2,373]

5 hours ago, Guest Oath said:

Hey Guys,

In Relic choice, what do you mean by "About 40 relics item levels"? Do you mean should choose a  835 Runtrought Relics over any "bad" relics that are not over 875?

Yes.

[ddkil 3]

So,after a month of raiding I am kinda starting to be disappointed of outlaw.At first two weeks I was having so much fun and was top 3 dps 80% of time in my static but now I have no idea what happened to that class...I can barely reach top 5 these days and its so hard to keep up with all those mages,hunters and warriors who have such redicilous numbers.Maybe its just me being bad or our static being good i dont know,
I suspect that small Run through nerf couple of weeks ago made a big difference but who knows.And overall it still seems very inconsistant.I am fed up with wasting my entire COTDB just to reroll 1 buff.

Does anybody has similr thoughts? Currently we are on heroic xavius (not much of a progress but still)

Edited October 5, 2016 by ddkil

[Carrn 284]

4 minutes ago, ddkil said:

So,after a month of raiding I am kinda starting to be disappointed of outlaw.At first two weeks I was having so much fun and was top 3 dps 80% of time in my static but now I have no idea what happened to that class...I can barely reach top 5 these days and its so hard to keep up with all those mages,hunters and warriors who have such redicilous numbers.Maybe its just me being bad or our static being good i dont know,
I suspect that small Run through nerf couple of weeks ago made a big difference but who knows.And overall it still seems very inconsistant.I am fed up with wasting my entire COTDB just to reroll 1 buff.

Does anybody has similr thoughts? Currently we are on heroic xavius (not much of a progress but still)

I mean, Outlaw isn't in that bad a place. Overall it does the same damage as both other specs on single target encounters if you're playing it correctly

But yes, RtB is frustrating, and it sucks when you don't get good rolls

 

[Sylencer 1]

Yay macros!

OK. I'm pretty macro-heavy when I play.

Here's what I use:

Interrupts and subterfuge:
#showtooltip
/cast [stance:1/3, mod:shift] Pick Pocket; [stance:1/3] sap; [modifier:shift] Gouge; Kick

Spammer for CP:
#showtooltip [mod:shift] Gouge; Saber Slash
/cast [mod:shift] Gouge; Saber Slash
/startattack
/use [stance:0] 13
/use [stance:0] 14
/use [stance:0] 12

Finisher: (If you don't want to pop Dreadblades or Adrenaline Rush, hold down shift when you do it, for a quick finisher without wasting CD's.)
#showtooltip Run Through
/cast [nomod] Curse of the Dreadblades
/cast Marked for Death
/cast [nomod] Adrenaline Rush
/cast Run Through

Buff:
#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] Crimson Vial; Roll the Bones

Defense:
#showtooltip
/cast Cloak of Shadows
/cast Riposte
/cast Feint

Mobility:
#showtooltip
/cast [nomod] Sprint
/cast [mod:shift] Grappling Hook

 

Pretty much, the normal presses use the normally used abilities, the "shift" ones use the ones that are less commonly spammed, and the spammers also use the "nearly always use this cooldown on CD" CD's.

...And if you don't want to pop a few of your CD's, some of 'em have [nomod] in front of them, so a Shift or Alt would selectively not use those ones.

[Valks 2,373]

Already thanked you in the other thread, but thanks for posting them for Outlaw too! 

[Sylencer 1]

1 hour ago, Blainie said:

Already thanked you in the other thread, but thanks for posting them for Outlaw too! 

No probs!
Each post is spec-specific, with only the first one shared, as that one is used in all of 'em.

I have one in Assassination, too, but I need to tweak it a hair, once it's approved by a moderator.
With one o' the traits on the artifact weapon it's better to put the /cast Vendetta at the end of the combo point spender, as opposed to the opener and general spammer.

[Guest Barricade]

Can anyone tell me why most of the top raiding rogues have so much mastery in the amory and so low vers?

[Carrn 284]

15 hours ago, Guest Barricade said:

Can anyone tell me why most of the top raiding rogues have so much mastery in the amory and so low vers?

It's an easier stat to get

[Guest Auburnveil]

about mastery and vers, I came here looking for an answer as askmrrobot has started prioritising mastery over versatility in the last week or so, has something changed?