Outlaw Rogue 7.3

[Furty 51]

56 minutes ago, Guest rs77 said:

When the difference between getting good RNG (@ ~15% of the time) and bad RNG (at about 50% of the time) means either performing middle of the pack all the way to blowing it completely out of the water OR having a consistent night of bad rolls  barely breaking out of the bottom 3-5 DPS'ers in a 20 man raid and being frustrated to boot... Then I would say there is a problem. And it isn't crying when the people trying to tell you their piss is rain because they base their opinions on a handful of outliers parses. I'm sorry but a large portion of the Outlaw community doesn't agree with you on this, and its not because they are bad or "crying" due to the "potential" not being realized, its because the implementation of RtB is terrible and provides a completely inconsistent source of DPS pull to pull.

There is a 50% chance per roll you get buffs you keep. This means on average you will need to roll twice. It also means there will be pulls where you roll more than twice, or you get buffs you keep every roll. You definitely don't get bad RNG "about 50% of the time" though - that is definitely "crying". I actually agree that it's inconsistent and annoying, but that doesn't have any bearing at how effective it is in progression. Luckily, all three rogue specializations are pretty exceptional right now and you have to freedom to play whatever makes you happiest.

[priapus 0]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Hit and Run is definitely useful if you get the legendary boots that give you a damage boost based on your speed.

[Furty 51]

16 minutes ago, priapus said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Hit and Run is definitely useful if you get the legendary boots that give you a damage boost based on your speed.

It is mentioned in the gear/legendaries section, yes.

[Guest rs77]

7 hours ago, Furty said:

There is a 50% chance per roll you get buffs you keep. This means on average you will need to roll twice. It also means there will be pulls where you roll more than twice, or you get buffs you keep every roll. You definitely don't get bad RNG "about 50% of the time" though - that is definitely "crying". I actually agree that it's inconsistent and annoying, but that doesn't have any bearing at how effective it is in progression. Luckily, all three rogue specializations are pretty exceptional right now and you have to freedom to play whatever makes you happiest.

You're right you actually get bad RNG more than 50% of the time... Look I don't have to prove my point with you any further, its already been proven ad nauseam through weeks of logs, a drop in # of people running the spec, and a now 2.6k post long thread in WoW GD. You can call it crying all you want, it simply isn't true.

People are justifiably pissed because they raised concerns over the RNG of RtB in beta, it never got addressed, then we're told not to worry about heavy spec nerfs and its ok to commit to the spec you enjoy, only to get completely hamstrung by the Devs. Then they have the audacity to try and tell us in that joke of a Q&A that they will continue to "not heavily nerf specs and let things play out" after they just screwed outlaw... 

I think your guide is wrong to suggest this is a "strong" progression spec. I don't find Sin or Sub fun, and now combat has been turned into the clusterfuk that is Outlaw. They've turned the spec into a clunky, energy starved mess. It's not fun being on the bottom when your only job is to DPS stuff, and hybrids can blast you out of the water...

[Guest Baladrict]

I have Thraxis Tricksy Treads and was wondering how valuable that makes speed? I have a number of items with speed including an 855 Vigilant Bondbreaker Headdress (570), 840 Chain of Scorched Bones with socket (303), and 860 Jeweled Signet of Melandrus (326). I was also curious about the Gift of Versatility with 2% speed vs 200 agility and now much better the boots make Chrono Shard/Journey Through Time 2pc bonus and Hunger of the Pack trinkets.

I also haven't seen much discussion of Jeweled Signet of Melandrus is the increased auto attack damage just not worth much?

Thank you,

Baladrict-Sisters of Elune

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sisters-of-elune/Baladrict/simple

[Guest Blayke]

This may be a silly question, and I apologize if it's been asked before (although I didn't see it).  In the trinket section it says that the Infallible Tracking Charm is our third bis.  Is this referring to the 815 trinket?  I noticed there is a "[D]" after it, which made me wonder.  What does the "D" stand for; is it referring to something different than the trinket we all had in our bags when Legion started?  Just seems very counter-intuitive that a 815 trinket could be 3rd bis.

I know I've asked this before, but it seems to have gotten lost with all the discussion concerning the new outlaw buffs.  Thanks for any and all help.

[Furty 51]

6 hours ago, Guest Baladrict said:

I have Thraxis Tricksy Treads and was wondering how valuable that makes speed? I have a number of items with speed including an 855 Vigilant Bondbreaker Headdress (570), 840 Chain of Scorched Bones with socket (303), and 860 Jeweled Signet of Melandrus (326). I was also curious about the Gift of Versatility with 2% speed vs 200 agility and now much better the boots make Chrono Shard/Journey Through Time 2pc bonus and Hunger of the Pack trinkets.

I also haven't seen much discussion of Jeweled Signet of Melandrus is the increased auto attack damage just not worth much?

Thank you,

Baladrict-Sisters of Elune

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sisters-of-elune/Baladrict/simple

Not sure of the exact value of speed as I haven't had much playtime with the legendary myself. My intuition says you probably shouldn't consider dropping well itemized/higher item level pieces for a little bit of extra move speed, but can't confirm.

1 hour ago, Guest Blayke said:

This may be a silly question, and I apologize if it's been asked before (although I didn't see it).  In the trinket section it says that the Infallible Tracking Charm is our third bis.  Is this referring to the 815 trinket?  I noticed there is a "[D]" after it, which made me wonder.  What does the "D" stand for; is it referring to something different than the trinket we all had in our bags when Legion started?  Just seems very counter-intuitive that a 815 trinket could be 3rd bis.

I know I've asked this before, but it seems to have gotten lost with all the discussion concerning the new outlaw buffs.  Thanks for any and all help.

It means it's against a demon target. 

[Weetabix 0]

Guide is mentioning Vers as being your best secondary stat but ever since the update I've been simming haste to be WAY better than every other secondary stat. Can I trust SimC on this or is Vers still the go-to stat?

[ddkil 3]

Idk about haste but ive seen some high geared rogues start to go critical on their chants,gems etc.And to be honest im very confused at the moment...

Also is 280-300k dps on single target on average ok for 868 gear as outlaw?For me it seems a bit low and i am a little worried about it :(

Here is my armory http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/свежеватель-душ/Симфоракс/advanced

[Guest Rhigg]

For Outlaw, Greenskin's Waterlogged Wristcuffs seem to show wrong percentage at legendary section and after the buffs to pistol shot and blunderbuss, it might be one of the best single target ones now. If im not mistaken, a guy called Aethys  at mmo-champ forums known to make spreadsheets simmed it with the latest changes and it seems to be the case. 

Link to mmo-champ thread : http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2057666-Simulationcraft-results-for-Legion-Expansion-(7-0)

Link to Excel spreadsheet : https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=E269C12457D12FAC!117&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AHxBKV_biTNzfRY

[Carrn 284]

On 03/11/2016 at 3:32 AM, Weetabix said:

Guide is mentioning Vers as being your best secondary stat but ever since the update I've been simming haste to be WAY better than every other secondary stat. Can I trust SimC on this or is Vers still the go-to stat?

Always trust SimC. Haste will be very valuable up until you get enough, then you don't need any more.

[Guest Viole]

Hello, guys. 

I got a doubt, checked here and I've read "Trust on SimCraft/Shadowcraft" but I got some problems over there. Yesterday I switchedbto Outlaw from Assa, my stats, in % are: 40 crit, 6 haste, 78% mastery and 6% Vers. Shadowcraft and SimCraft are saying that my priority is Mastery>Agi>Vers>Crit. It doesn't make sense at all... Or it does and I'm Lost? D:

[Carrn 284]

7 hours ago, Guest Viole said:

Hello, guys. 

I got a doubt, checked here and I've read "Trust on SimCraft/Shadowcraft" but I got some problems over there. Yesterday I switchedbto Outlaw from Assa, my stats, in % are: 40 crit, 6 haste, 78% mastery and 6% Vers. Shadowcraft and SimCraft are saying that my priority is Mastery>Agi>Vers>Crit. It doesn't make sense at all... Or it does and I'm Lost? D:

Well you already have plenty of Crit, so you don't need much more, and your Mastery is very very low, so no it's not surprising

[Guest Viole]

"Very very low", well, this % is shown as Outlaw. As Assa it's 144%. Crit is ok, but Vers is definetly low and mastery shouldn't be main. As I said, I came from Assa, my gear is Mastery>Crit>Vers

[TeamRage 0]

ANYONE KNOW HOW OUTLAW IS DOING RIGHT NOW BEEN PLAYING ASSASIN SINCE LAUNCH AND THINKING ABOUT A NEW SPEC..I DO EVERYTHING REALLY.. RBGS, ARENA, WORLD QUESTS, KARA, ETC... ANY EXPERIENCED ROGUES KNOW WATS DOING WELL RIGHT NOW??

[Carrn 284]

4 hours ago, TeamRage said:

ANYONE KNOW HOW OUTLAW IS DOING RIGHT NOW BEEN PLAYING ASSASIN SINCE LAUNCH AND THINKING ABOUT A NEW SPEC..I DO EVERYTHING REALLY.. RBGS, ARENA, WORLD QUESTS, KARA, ETC... ANY EXPERIENCED ROGUES KNOW WATS DOING WELL RIGHT NOW??

Every spec is viable

[Guest Anonymous Coward]

I just did some testing and roll the bones does *not* pandemic.  That needs to be changed.

If you want to test for yourself: Set up a little addon that outputs your energy regeneration rate, GetPowerRegen("player") - roll into Buried Treasure, take note of the value, then roll out of it.  The value instantly changes.

Similar buffs may pandemic but most of the time you're going to be rolling some buffs off for another.

[Aeryndil 0]

On September 11, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Dexter said:

I have a question about the current opener provided by the guide. I feel like it's not the best way to open up. Re-rolling several times, especially during AR/Cursed Dreadblades feels like a huge dps loss, if you happen to be unlucky enough to re-roll that often. I had many pulls just like that, re-rolling 6 times and still sitting on 1 single buff, instead of any 

Marked for Death at 10 seconds before pull  -> Roll the Bones 1 second before pull -> Ambush -> Adrenaline Rush -> Ghostly Strike -> Curse of the Dreadblades -> Saber Slash until 6 combo points* -> Run Through -> Saber Slash* -> Saber Slash to 6 combo points* -> Run Through, repeat

That's the basic opener. Some modifications that you can make are:

1) If you rolled a crappy buff from the MfD, you can hold off until 6 Cp, roll again, then AR and CotD. If it's still crappy, you could even Vanish, Ambush, SS, and try rolling one more time before AR+CotD (depending on trinket procs).

2) What I do: Equip my WoD PVP GEAR for the 4pc set bonus, vanish to get 6 cp, switch back to main gear set (I have a macro for this). If I don't like my buff(s), MfD and reroll (you will get some extra time on your buffs), and then the above, minus the vanish after opener.

If you have taken CB or KillSpree, remember to pop them BEFORE AR+CotD.

btw, if you are taking KillSpree, Horn of Valor is awesome to pop with KillSpree. It's almost 2700 Agi for 30 SECONDS! It will last through KSpree, AR+CotD, and if you had True Bearing, another KSpree.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Aeryndil

[Carrn 284]

On 21/11/2016 at 5:52 PM, Guest Anonymous Coward said:

I just did some testing and roll the bones does *not* pandemic.  That needs to be changed.

If you want to test for yourself: Set up a little addon that outputs your energy regeneration rate, GetPowerRegen("player") - roll into Buried Treasure, take note of the value, then roll out of it.  The value instantly changes.

Similar buffs may pandemic but most of the time you're going to be rolling some buffs off for another.

Actually it does benefit from Pandemic, your example just doesn't make any sense.

Pandemic affects the duration of the next spell cast, and increases the duration of the buff / debuff by up to 30% of the new one. So, using a different Rogue spec as an example, casting a 6 combo point Rupture applies a debuff to your target that lasts for 28 seconds. You may refresh that 6 combo point Rupture at 8 seconds, and the new Rupture will be applied to the target for 34 seconds.

In the case of Outlaw, when you cast Roll the Bones, a 6 combo point RtB lasts for 42 seconds regardless of what buff(s) it gives. If you roll Buried Treasure, it will buff your energy regen for those 42 seconds. If you then roll a new buff, obviously the old one will cancel, but importantly the new one will take the previous duration and add it to the new buff, just like with Rupture. So if you have 8 seconds left on Buried Treasure, and you reroll with 6 combo points into True Bearing, your TB buff will last for 50 seconds.

[Guest Tricks]

Has this guide been abandoned completely? It hasn't been updated in close to 2 months now, and there are several things that should be updated.

The most glaring this is the trinket simulation part, which lacks the trinkets from Return to Karazhan and Trial of Valor. I'm also pretty sure that the current list does not reflect the EN trinket buffs that came with 7.1(?). The legendary list also does not reflect the legendary changes. I'm sure there might be other stuff that's changed since the 2nd of October, but the things above are what I would find the most useful. 

Those are what I look at as things that need to be changed. When it comes to stuff that would be nice to have, you could look at  Azortharions guides for hunters, which are absolutely wonderful and very comprehensive. The additional page containing lots of simulations is extremely useful, especially with the importance of mythic keystone dungeons, which increases the importance of multi-target capabilities. Other stuff, like the potion simulations is also useful, especially considering that the new Potion of Prolonged Power isn't mentioned with a single word in this guide. 

 

[Furty 51]

On 11/26/2016 at 7:38 PM, Guest Tricks said:

Has this guide been abandoned completely? It hasn't been updated in close to 2 months now, and there are several things that should be updated.

The most glaring this is the trinket simulation part, which lacks the trinkets from Return to Karazhan and Trial of Valor. I'm also pretty sure that the current list does not reflect the EN trinket buffs that came with 7.1(?). The legendary list also does not reflect the legendary changes. I'm sure there might be other stuff that's changed since the 2nd of October, but the things above are what I would find the most useful. 

Those are what I look at as things that need to be changed. When it comes to stuff that would be nice to have, you could look at  Azortharions guides for hunters, which are absolutely wonderful and very comprehensive. The additional page containing lots of simulations is extremely useful, especially with the importance of mythic keystone dungeons, which increases the importance of multi-target capabilities. Other stuff, like the potion simulations is also useful, especially considering that the new Potion of Prolonged Power isn't mentioned with a single word in this guide. 

 

Guide was just updated and additionally reviewed by Perfecto. Everything is as up to date as it gets.

[Guest Tricks]

19 hours ago, Furty said:

Guide was just updated and additionally reviewed by Perfecto. Everything is as up to date as it gets.

While it's great that you updated it, the text is wrong for bracers, boots and belt. For belt it should be 400%, not 300%, for the boots it should be 20%, not 50%, and for belt it should be 30%, not 50%. The text right now reflects the state before the 26th of August. 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/5937-Patch-7-0-3-Hotfixes-August-26-Legendary-Item-Hotfixes

[Damien 1,514]

5 minutes ago, Guest Tricks said:

While it's great that you updated it, the text is wrong for bracers, boots and belt. For belt it should be 400%, not 300%, for the boots it should be 20%, not 50%, and for belt it should be 30%, not 50%. The text right now reflects the state before the 26th of August. 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/5937-Patch-7-0-3-Hotfixes-August-26-Legendary-Item-Hotfixes

The funny thing is that they were right before. Perfecto made us change them :( I'll fix the numbers quickly. Thanks for the tip ;)

[Guest Zealeuz]

Last tier talent description contain a bad link to the achievement "death from above" instead of the rogue talent.

Sorry for my english.

[Valks 2,373]

13 hours ago, Guest Zealeuz said:

Sorry for my english.

Thanks for letting us know! I'll notify the writers :)