5.4 Changes and Notes as of 7/10

[Omaric 246]

Not drastic, but it could change whether or not it's the clear winner. To me, I still enjoy the extra DF generation on the opener. Overall it's what, 3-4 less wild imps per fight? That's not a big enough hit for me to negate picking up an ability that allows me to spam Soulfire during my opener (until we drop current tier 2-piece).

[Zagam 1,983]

The issue is using Imp Swarm disables Demonic Calling while Imp Swarm is on CD. It also puts a 4 second delay (not affected by Haste) on Demonic Calling while Imp Swarm is off CD. Hell, I might as well lay out the math here.

At 0% Haste, without the glyph, you'd receive an Imp every 20 seconds. That would be 6 Imps per 2 minutes, or 3 Imps per minute (3 i/m)

At 10% Haste, without the glyph, you'd recieve an Imp every 18.182 seconds. This would be 3.3 i/m

At 20% Haste, without the glyph, you'd recieve an Imp every 16.667 seconds. This would be 3.6 i/m

At 30% Haste, without the glyph, you'd receive an Imp every 15.385 seconds. This would be 3.9 i/m

At 40% Haste, without the glyph, you'd receive an Imp every 14.286 seconds. This would be 4.2 i/m

At 50% Haste, without the glyph, you'd receive an Imp every 13.333 seconds. This would be 4.5 i/m

Basically, every 10% Haste, you acquire an additional 1/3 of an Imp per minute. To see it in a 2 minute threshold, you'd see the following:

0% Haste = 6 Imps

10% Haste = 6.6 Imps

20% Haste = 7.2 Imps

30% Haste = 7.8 Imps

40% Haste = 8.4 Imps

50% Haste = 9.0 Imps

Now, to do the same with the Glyph, you have to think about the base delay of Demonic Calling along with the fact it's on CD with Imp Swarm. So, we see the following:

0% Haste = 1 Initial Imp + 5 Imps with Imp Swarm - 120 second CD on Imp Swarm = 0 additional Imps before next Imp Swarm. Total = 6

10% Haste = 1 + 5 with Imp Swarm - 109 second CD on Imp Swarm + 21.8 sec CD on Demonic Calling = 0 additional. Total = 6

20% Haste = 1 + 5 - 100 second CD on Imp Swarm + 20 sec CD on DC = 1 additional. Total = 7

30% Haste = 1 + 5 - 92.3 second CD on Imp Swarm + 18.4 sec CD on DC = 1 additional. Total = 7

40% Haste = 1 + 5 - 85.7 second CD on Imp Swarm + 17.1 sec CD on DC = 2 additional. Total = 8

50% Haste = 1 + 5 - 80.0 second CD on Imp Swarm + 16 sec CD on DC = 2 additional. Total = 8

Basically with the glyph, every 20% Haste gives you an extra Imp on top of the 5 you get with Imp Swarm. You can see right away that using Imp Swarm gives you less Imps. Why, then, have me and Gaddho suggested using Imp Swarm? It's because you can maximize your Imp damage with Dark Soul stacking. This is why the threshold of 20% and 40% for Imp Swarm is set. 20% is fairly easy to achieve, but 40% is for heavy Haste builds.

With the change to 4, we'll now see the following:

0% Haste = 5 in 2 mins

10% Haste = 5 in 2 mins

20% Haste = 6 in 2 mins

30% Haste = 6 in 2 mins

40% Haste = 7 in 2 mins

50% Haste = 7 in 2 mins

At a heavy Haste % of 40, we're going to see a net loss of 1.4 Imps every 2 minutes of the fight. At 20% Haste, we will see a loss of 1.2 Imps per minute using the glyph. However, lining 5 Imps up wtih Dark Soul buffs them by 30%. Therefore, with Dark Soul up, you essentially have 30% more Imps. That can be shown here:

No Imp Swarm

0% = 6 Imps + (2 out during Dark Soul = 2 * 0.3 = 0.6) = 6.6 Imps

20% = 7.2 Imps " " = 7.8 Imps

40% = 8.4 Imps " " = 9.0 Imps

Glyph of Imp Swarm (with change to 4)

0% = 5 * 1.3 = 6.5 Imps

20% = 6 * 1.3 = 7.8 Imps

40% = 7 * 1.3 = 9.1 Imps

TL;DR: Imp Swarm will still be a DPS gain when utilized with Dark Soul but only EVER so slightly. If you don't use Dark Soul properly with Imp Swarm, then the glyph is a DPS loss. However the gap between using the glyph and not using the glyph has gotten drastically smaller. We will see a nerf in our burst and our Demonic Fury generation at the beginning. They've gone back to their word where Glyphs shouldn't be mandatory, and Glyph of Imp Swarm was every bit mandatory. Now, it is not. You'll decide if you want bigger burst and DF generation every 2ish minutes or better sustained and better DF generation overall.

[Omaric 246]

For me the answer will definitely be more burst during Dark Soul. I can't see a situation arising in the near future where I won't want extra DF generation from Imp Swarm while Dark Soul is going. *Especially* once we lose our 2 piece that we have right now.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Omaric

[Kaboozey 16]

Haven't seen anyone mention the change to the 4-Piece Tier 14 bonus. Now increases damage by 10% during Dark Soul. No more armor switching during pre-pot phase for you!

They seem to be making a lot of pvp changes. Were they just not happy with 'lock representation?

[Lappenforce 0]

MMO Champion:

• For Affliction Warlocks, the Soulburn empowered version of Drain Soul also receives a 50% increase to damage and 150% increase to healing.

Since when is Drain Soul empowered by Soulburn? Or am I being dumb here?

Edited July 25, 2013 by Lappenforce

[Omaric 246]

You can rest assured it should read "Drain Life" as Drain Soul isn't known for its health draining ability.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Omaric

[Zagam 1,983]

The 4pc T14 set bonus was likely used for the 80 sec CD on Dark Soul, but man, people will find any way to manipulate things. So lame. And yes, the Soulburn effect is related to Drain Life, not Drain Soul, as Omaric points out.

[Kaboozey 16]

The 4pc T14 set bonus was likely used for the 80 sec CD on Dark Soul, but man, people will find any way to manipulate things. So lame.

It's nothing new man. People have always abused old gear and set bonus's in this way if it provided an edge. I remember using the Blue Dragon Card during BC, and tanks still rocking Thunderfury because the threat generation was just that good. You once referenced 'locks gear switching during their time in Northrend for a bonus and I believe I saw rogues doing a gear switch prior to combat recently (during MoP), but I forget what it was for.

[Zagam 1,983]

People did that bullshit Moonwell Chalice swapping in Dragon Soul as Demonology. So stupid.

[Omaric 246]

The same will probably eventually happen to UVoLS.

[dirkusbirkus 0]

I'm still anticipating Destruction spell buffs to off-set the change in Ember generation. Surely they won't let one spec fall out of the running, right?

Is it too early to start worrying about Destro becoming a liability in 5.4? I've been keeping tabs on the changes to the other specs and at this point it looks like I need to start learning to play Affli. I don't really *want* to drop Destro because I think it's a lot of fun and that's why we play games, right? It's just looking increasingly like if I don't choose one of the other specs, I'd be hindering not only myself, but my guild's progression too.

Possibly a bit melodramatic from me at this point, there's still time for them to shoehorn in some Destro buffs. I hope you're right, Zagam

[Jenaye 9]

To be fair, you should be proficient in all 3 specs.

[dirkusbirkus 0]

To be fair, you should be proficient in all 3 specs.

Not all of us have time to burn, thanks. I play as much as I'm able. We're not a hardcore raiding guild, we don't push for ranks or anything, we play to have fun with friends. Despite this, I do feel a certain level of responsibility to get the most out of my own DPS. Up til now, that was fine as Destro,

Not sure why you'd expect players to have mastered all 3 specs of a class unless they were heroic progression tbh.

Edited July 26, 2013 by dirkusbirkus

[Zagam 1,983]

To be fair, he's not saying you should master all 3 specs. However, you should be able to play a spec to 90% of its capacity within 15 minutes of practice. Obviously mastering the spec takes time, but you should be able to play any spec at any time for any fight with the abundance of information on the specs both here and on other websites.

Since you say that you play at a more casual level, playing your class to 90% capacity would be more than sufficient. 15 minutes of time on a dummy isn't too much to ask, I would think.

The same will probably eventually happen to UVoLS.

They've already said they're not changing this thing. It's not going anywhere and it will be BiS through the rest of the expansion for Demonology.

[Omaric 246]

Because they've never changed their minds. :P

[Alphric 7]

Because they've never changed their minds. :P

I saw in the patch notes where they're going back and changing the tier 14 4 piece bonus

[Zagam 1,983]

He was being sarcastic. The 4pc T14 was from people using it to get an extra Dark Soul in fights which is/was not intended. The Unerring change is something I'm confident isn't going to happen. The more I play Demonology, the more I get annoyed by the Wild Imps inability to be controlled. I'm usually the last ranged DPS on Essence of Anima because they're not up long enough for the little douchebags to target swap. Same goes for a fight like Council switching to adds. If there was a way to have them snap target yours, I'd be much more pleased. I can't tell how badly this will affect raiding in the next tier.

[Kaboozey 16]

These tweaks/changes are unending:

Talents

• Grimoire of Sacrifice (Affliction) now increases the power of many of your single target spells by 20%, down from 30%.

Affliction

• Haunt now increases periodic damage, not all damage.

Demonology

• Wild Imps Every 20 sec, you gain Demonic Calling, causing Your Shadow Bolt, Soul Fire, and Touch of Chaos hits summon a Wild Imp from the Twisting Nether. This effect can occur every 20 sec. Each Wild Imp will cast 10 Firebolts before departing. Each Firebolt generates 5 Demonic Fury. Warlock - Demonology Spec.

Demo appears to just be a wording change. Affliction nerfs.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Kaboozey

[Kaboozey 16]

There are no nerfs in that table as Affliction. You're not supposed to be using Grim of Sac unless you're over 545 item level, and even then, it's arguable. Now there's no argument. You should be using an Observer or Fel Imp anyways.

LoLwut? "There are no nerfs"? Currently it's a toss-up of what's best even at >545 item item level, but with this nerf that isn't a nerf, there isn't an argument of which talent to use? As in you'd be doing less damage, right? How is this not a nerf? Mind... blown.

Edit: As Affliction, some (like myself) don't want to use a pet 100% of the time. In fact, the only pet I really ever wanna see out is Felguard.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Kaboozey

[JvChequer 43]

Affliction wasn't nerfed, just fixed before going Live like 5.0 and being extremely OP.

[Zagam 1,983]

LoLwut? "There are no nerfs"? Currently it's a toss-up of what's best even at >545 item item level, but with this nerf that isn't a nerf, there isn't an argument of which talent to use? As in you'd be doing less damage, right? How is this not a nerf? Mind... blown.

Edit: As Affliction, some (like myself) don't want to use a pet 100% of the time. In fact, the only pet I really ever wanna see out is Felguard.

You stated Affliction got nerfed. I argued that it did not and that it was a talent adjustment. You claim it's a nerf because you PREFER to play that way. Affliction didn't get nerfed. Grimoire of Sacrifice got nerfed.

[Kaboozey 16]

Affliction wasn't nerfed, just fixed before going Live like 5.0 and being extremely OP.

So the scaling will lead it to going overboard at much higher item levels. That makes more sense. It also repeats what we had last time they nerfed it (around 496-502 ilvl): Affliction starts out less valuable and weaker at lower item levels using Sacrifice because it simply doesn't scale. Most people at that time abandoned ship from Affliction at that point, and it will happen again until it eventually catches up. Especially with multi-target fights. It would seem they could come up with a better way to do with it rather than nerf it every time people are about to attain better gear.

[Kaboozey 16]

You stated Affliction got nerfed. I argued that it did not and that it was a talent adjustment. You claim it's a nerf because you PREFER to play that way. Affliction didn't get nerfed. Grimoire of Sacrifice got nerfed.

And you're arguing a technicality because it's a talent. It certainly didn't effect any of the other specs.

[Zagam 1,983]

So the scaling will lead it to going overboard at much higher item levels. That makes more sense. It also repeats what we had last time they nerfed it (around 496-502 ilvl): Affliction starts out less valuable and weaker at lower item levels using Sacrifice because it simply doesn't scale. Most people at that time abandoned ship from Affliction at that point, and it will happen again until it eventually catches up. Especially with multi-target fights. It would seem they could come up with a better way to do with it rather than nerf it every time people are about to attain better gear.

Mages have something similar. It's called Critical Mass, and Blizzard has been stumped on how to fix this issue for a long time. Look at Fire Mages now. They will be able to get ridiculously close to 100% Crit in the next tier. Scaling seems to just go right over Blizz's head. Anytime you place a percentage increase on something, the better that something gets, the larger the buff gets. I would imagine that this will make GoSac absolutely worthless in all instances of PvE, even single target BiS.

[Zagam 1,983]

And you're arguing a technicality because it's a talent. It certainly didn't effect any of the other specs.

I'm just sensitive to people saying '*insert spec here* got nerfed' when that's not really the case because people will read that and twist things or ask more questions. Might be a slight overreaction on my part, but I have to play the part of forum check and make sure anything that MIGHT be misleading is clarified as soon as possible.