Heroes of the Storm Lúcio

[Damien 1,520]

This thread is for comments about our Lúcio build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

[strategylord 4]

I really like the two builds KendricSwissh made for Lúcio.

There is also something that people might not notice about  Rejuvenescência + Bonus Track at level 20 when they first play Lúcio. Now assuming you pick them at level 16 and 20 you can cast amp it to healing and switch to speed to refresh amp it up and immediately switch to healing again. This gives you 6 full seconds of amp it up for healing ( 8 seconds if you picked Reverse Amp at level 10). while the effect it over you'll find that Amp It Up cooldown was reducing in that period and it's set at about 6 or 7 seconds makingg the combo available again after a very short time 

This in my opinion makes Lúcio the strongest late game healer in the entire game who can do massive amounts of aoe healing that can determine the crucial late team fights

[AntonWhite 1]

With all due respect to KendricSwissh I've never seen talent assessment I disagree more with on IcyVeins.

Back in the Mix at 13 is misleading and underpowered. While countering CC effects with healing is not that bad, the heal is too small and the cooldown is too high for the talent to have an impact. In current meta if you've been hit by stun or root the next CC effect won't come in 10 seconds. It will be there immediately after with a tonn of damage to follow. 

Level 16 talents are all viable (except maybe for the Heliotropics which is significantly weaker and looks like it belongs on level 4 rather than here).  Rejuvenescência is without a doubt better for the team with high health pool (warriors, Azmodan, Nazeebo), but Bring It Together brings higher healing numbers with 1 warrior team and the condition is not hard to meet at all, especially in the late game. Up the Frequency works wonders against teams with no heavy dive as you are perfectly safe to AA them while being safely positioned behind your team; its cooldown and mana cost reduction are very significant.

Nonstop Remix at 20 is a very much win-more talent, but there's nothing wrong with talents like that to solidify an existing lead. The requirement is not a problem too, especially if you're slowing enemies down with the Reverse Amp and/or boosting your allies speed.

[Valhalen 1,485]

On 2/19/2017 at 7:12 AM, AntonWhite said:

Back in the Mix at 13 is misleading and underpowered. While countering CC effects with healing is not that bad, the heal is too small and the cooldown is too high for the talent to have an impact. In current meta if you've been hit by stun or root the next CC effect won't come in 10 seconds. It will be there immediately after with a tonn of damage to follow.

"Back in the Mix" is the best option for Level 13. Lúcio's healing output is HoT based, meaning he has no healing burst. Being able to get a small burst of healing every 10 seconds is great for his self sustain, specially given how squishy he is. At level 13, "Back in the Mix" heals for over 400, which is meaningful considering he has around 2500'ish HP at said level.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Valhalen

[Voltorocks 40]

re: the 13 talent tier: while I don't agree with @AntonWhiteabout back in the mix being too weak to take, I *do* think that in most cases hard style will give much more value (depends on the map, of course, which determines what percentage of an average teamfight it will be easy to stand near a wall for) .

I also think that can't stop/won't stop deserves at least a "situational" with the situation being that the enemy team is piled high with slows and roots, specifically. Against a comp with Jaina, thrall, and shield wall varian, for example, you would get bonkers value out of CS/WS.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Voltorocks

[Valhalen 1,485]

1 hour ago, Voltorocks said:

re: the 13 talent tier: while I don't agree with @AntonWhiteabout back in the mix being too weak to take, I *do* think that in most cases hard style will give much more value (depends on the map, of course, which determines what percentage of an average teamfight it will be easy to stand near a wall for) .

I also think that can't stop/won't stop deserves at least a "situational" with the situation being that the enemy team is piled high with slows and roots, specifically. Against a comp with Jaina, thrall, and shield wall varian, for example, you would get bonkers value out of CS/WS.

My issue with Hard Style is that it forces you to look for walls to grind on, although that depending on the map it is not a problem. However, I always take it if the opposing team features no stuns.

[FirstBlood 7]

I think Boombox actually has a lot of utility at level 7.  I do like the extra 20% range, since it keeps your team from needing to bunch up so much, but it's not the most critical thing.  Boombox is great if you're split pushing, or if you're facing a split push.  Garden of Terror, for instance, if the enemy terror is pushing top and the rest of the team pushing bottom, you can drop the boombox down in the top fort and then rotate bottom so you're able to heal in two places.

Also, like any ward, you can just drop it in a bush and then you're scouting that bush.  I still take party mix most of the time, but now that I'm playing Lucio a lot more I find there are times I like having the boombox.  It lasts a really long time assuming you put it somewhere that it doesn't get destroyed-long enough for two uses of Amp It Up.

[positiv2 955]

7 minutes ago, FirstBlood said:

I think Boombox actually has a lot of utility at level 7.  I do like the extra 20% range, since it keeps your team from needing to bunch up so much, but it's not the most critical thing.  Boombox is great if you're split pushing, or if you're facing a split push.  Garden of Terror, for instance, if the enemy terror is pushing top and the rest of the team pushing bottom, you can drop the boombox down in the top fort and then rotate bottom so you're able to heal in two places.

Also, like any ward, you can just drop it in a bush and then you're scouting that bush.  I still take party mix most of the time, but now that I'm playing Lucio a lot more I find there are times I like having the boombox.  It lasts a really long time assuming you put it somewhere that it doesn't get destroyed-long enough for two uses of Amp It Up.

Even with split-pushing, the players don't stay in one place, which means your Boombox will not only affect one or two people at a time, but the effective duration of the bonus will be much lower as well. Also, as a support, you are often better off not splitpushing yourself, as you can get ambushed and be taken down somewhat easily.

[ultimodruido 1]

Hi

I found a mistake in the abilities page: in the banner describing sound barrier, the ability has 0s cooldown :) but it should be 80s

Bye

[EDL666 18]

I think the discussion part of Bonus Track in the Abilities section is mistakenly naming Reverse Amp instead of Amp It Up, because I don't understand what's the link between Reverse Amp and Bonus Track if Amp It Up doesn't increase Reverse Amp...

[50m8r4 11]

Sigh I see no point in Lucio since his Hps Nerf :|

Should there even be a reason for me to pick him untill they do something with him?

[Valhalen 1,485]

On 25/09/2017 at 3:53 PM, 50m8r4 said:

Sigh I see no point in Lucio since his Hps Nerf :|

Should there even be a reason for me to pick him untill they do something with him?

Lucio excels in hard-engage comps, thanks to talents like Maximum Tempo. Conversely, he also works well in comps that require more mobility. I currently wouldn't draft him as a solo Support as the meta is very burst oriented at the moment, but he can solo heal. Pair him with Uther or Stukov and he really shines.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Valhalen

[Trensicourt 5]

The reasoning for making Nonstop Remix not recommended is not solid. The current argument is that it's not always the case that you catch multiple enemies with Reverse Amp. However, common sense says that by level 20, you should know if you can or cannot. Every single Lucio game I've played with Reverse Amp, I could tell whether I am able to catch multiple people or not. For a level 20 talent that's much more reliable than Genji's Living Weapon reset, it's at least a situational talent whenever Lucio can catch 2 or more heroes.

Next, Bring It Together is a much stronger talent than Rejuvenescência when it comes to healing anyone else other than tanks. At around 4500 health at level 20, the healing of Rejuvenescência exceeds Bring It Together. That applies to only 30% of the roster. If it's a teamfight, I am likely to proc the talent and heal more. The only concern of Bring It Together is reliability, which is too weak of a reason to make the talent not recommended.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Trensicourt

[positiv2 955]

5 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

The reasoning for making Nonstop Remix not recommended is not solid. The current argument is that it's not always the case that you catch multiple enemies with Reverse Amp. However, common sense says that by level 20, you should know if you can or cannot. Every single Lucio game I've played with Reverse Amp, I could tell whether I am able to catch multiple people or not.

Waiting too long to get some value out of Reverse Amp is simply bad. While you can tell when you are able to catch multiple enemies with Reverse Amp, it does not have to happen that often for it to be better than any other talent in the tier. 

5 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

For a level 20 talent that's much more reliable than Genji's Living Weapon reset, it's at least a situational talent whenever Lucio can catch 2 or more heroes.

We marked Living Weapon as "Not Recommended" for that reason. While Nonstop Remix is more reliable than Living Weapon, it is still not reliable enough.

5 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

Next, Bring It Together is a much stronger talent than Rejuvenescência when it comes to healing anyone else other than tanks. At around 4500 health at level 20, the healing of Rejuvenescência exceeds Bring It Together.

If you take a look at healing numbers for tanks, who you should try to heal the most, especially those with strong peel, the difference between the two talents is huge. For example, with Varian being the most picked "tank" hero, and Taunt being the most common level 10 talent for him by a significant margin, Rejuvenescência will always heal more than procced Bring it Together. If you add a most commonly picked assassin, Valla, you will get higher value starting at level 22, which is too late for Bring it Together to be picked. Healing three or more damaged heroes is not that common, so the problem is indeed reliability. 

[Farbas 5]

I'd like to know what you think of this:
https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/lucio#26.0!3322323
It revolves around positioning yourself to get near of 2 of your allies then use Amp it up. The duration is increased by the ult choice and the lvl 20 talent allows to basically double that bonus. I picked Bring it Together over Rejuvenescência because I calculated (probably poorly, I'll admit that) that at lvl 20, the former heals more than the later as long as the target has less than 5 000 HP.

This build would allow for a big uptime of a huge healing area. Accelerando at lvl 1 allows you to position more quickly to be able to combo your talents

I'll admit that I didn't try it yet, but it sure seems fun to play :P

Edited December 22, 2017 by Farbas
Added info

[positiv2 955]

7 hours ago, Farbas said:

I picked Bring it Together over Rejuvenescência because I calculated (probably poorly, I'll admit that) that at lvl 20, the former heals more than the later as long as the target has less than 5 000 HP.

If you are using it to heal a tank, then even when procced, it heals less than Rejuvenescência. When you heal 2 heroes at once, then as you say, it becomes better at a higher level. So, if your team has mainly melee heroes and you are sure that the game will go on for quite some time, you can pick Bring it Together and be better off than you would be with Rejuvenescência. However, since that usually isn't the case, you should generally pick Rejuvenescência instead.

Also, Sonic Amplifier is too inconsistent for the advantage it can provide. If your team is well coordinated, feel free to pick the talent, though.

[SteveFrost 97]

There's an error in level 20 talents discussion; Bonus Track is described as "....if he swaps beats while Reverse Amp  is still active.." it probably means Amp It Up

[positiv2 955]

6 hours ago, SteveFrost said:

There's an error in level 20 talents discussion; Bonus Track is described as "....if he swaps beats while Reverse Amp  is still active.." it probably means Amp It Up

Thanks! I just submitted a fix which should go live soon.

[SuperKaioken 0]

While playing lucio in game after getting the level 20 talent that refreshes the duration of amp it up, the guide mentions it provides lucio with 1 entire speed and healing boost, but when I play him I can swap from heal to speed, then quickly back to heal and in essence have a double duration healing amp. I request this be mentioned in the guide as some people may think that the amp duration only lasts as long as you stay on the new track, and you will revert to normal crossfade if you attempt to swap back to what you started the amp on during the refreshed duration.

 

I would also like to mention that when fighting team comps who lack burst damage, I take reverse amp for the longer amp it up duration, the basic attacks reducing CD as if lucio plays carefully he can benefit greatly from the reduced CD and mana cost, and when coupled with the ability to refresh the duration of amp by swapping crossfade tracks, A good lucio could keep amp it up healing on without stopping for as long as he does not run out of mana, which for me when lucio is on full mana tends to last between a minute and a minute and a half. The long sustained amp healing is really nice when the enemy has difficulty bursting through the healing.

 

Thanks for the guide though, its really helpful.

Edited November 8, 2018 by SuperKaioken

[KendricSwissh 66]

Hey Everyone,

After some playtesting, I'm going to update the Lucio guide tonight! Stay tuned and thanks for reading! 

[Valhalen 1,485]

11 minutes ago, KendricSwissh said:

Hey Everyone,

After some playtesting, I'm going to update the Lucio guide tonight! Stay tuned and thanks for reading! 

Looking forward to it! I've been playtesting him yesterday and found the W Build surprisingly effective. Very solid.

[KendricSwissh 66]

Aaand it's live! 

Some personal feedback on the build from a Lucio Main: 

I overall think that he's weaker than before. His core strength is almost gone, which was his speed to bait enemies into using (and missing) abilities on him. Instead, Lucio now needs to be played a lot more conservatively! High Five is definitely a nice pick. 

All in all, a rather weak rework unfortunately. Perhaps future changes can help tackle that. 

[Valhalen 1,485]

4 hours ago, KendricSwissh said:

Aaand it's live! 

Some personal feedback on the build from a Lucio Main: 

I overall think that he's weaker than before. His core strength is almost gone, which was his speed to bait enemies into using (and missing) abilities on him. Instead, Lucio now needs to be played a lot more conservatively! High Five is definitely a nice pick. 

All in all, a rather weak rework unfortunately. Perhaps future changes can help tackle that. 

On paper his rework looked it made him much stronger. Weird, eh? But since they reduced his innate movement speed, it makes sense that he cannot be as bold as before.

Also, I was looking on the Talent Build page and noticed that you marked Subwoofer as not recommended and Off the Wall as recommended, yet his Sound Barrier Build puts Subwoofer as the level 4 talent.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Valhalen

[KendricSwissh 66]

On 3/29/2019 at 2:46 PM, Valhalen said:

On paper his rework looked it made him much stronger. Weird, eh? But since they reduced his innate movement speed, it makes sense that he cannot be as bold as before.

Also, I was looking on the Talent Build page and noticed that you marked Subwoofer as not recommended and Off the Wall as recommended, yet his Sound Barrier Build puts Subwoofer as the level 4 talent.

Let me look into that! Thanks for the catch! 

[ShadowerDerek 69]

http://dignitas.gg/articles/blogs/Heroes-Of-The-Storm/13632/break-it-down-the-ultimate-hots-lucio-guide

Well, Lucio's rework has been out for some time now. I do think that the new Lucio is much more aggressive than the old one because of the new tools he got (mainly Push Off).

Found this guide on Reddit written by someone from Dignitas. By comparing these 2 guides, there're something very interesting to discuss. (I'll be focusing on talent choices)

First, Dig's guide highly value Accelerando, since it 'enables everything Lucio wants to do'. While he thinks it's a must pick, Kendric's guide thinks Party Mix is a solid alternative.

Second, Dig's guide thinks Good Vibrations is the best talent overall on Lv 7, with Boombox being a situational pick, Kendric's guide thinks GV is too weak. Dig's guide points out the synergy with Off the Wall, but still picks it 'almost all the time' even without OtW. On the other hand, the writer 'is not a fan of Reverse Amp in its current state'.

The third one is also a controversial talent that Kendric doesn't recommend, Slip (on Lv 13). Dig's guide describe it as 'the default pick' on this tier because it 'accentuates his strengths while mitigating his squishiness', but Kendric's guide think it isn't 'impactful and useful to allies' when compared to the other talents. 

Both sides have solid arguments I'd say. I'll need to test out Good Vibrations though since I've never take it. However, I personally don't like Slip, especially with Accelerando because these 2 speed boost don't stack together.

I'd like to see other's opinions though since I'm just a pleb. 

Edited May 19, 2019 by ShadowerDerek