Toramir

Ret Haste value

25 posts in this topic

Hi guys,

 

The question I have been wondering is if it is ever worth _stopping_ gemming haste, and instead swapping to mastery?

I have seen one or two rets do this, and I'm wondering if there is any reason for this, if there is a certain gear level at which it is more beneficial to swap over. 

 

Would be interesting to know if at some point mastery catches up (one ret I saw had like 50% mastery on armory). 

 

If it is worth it, at what point would one stop gemming maybe even reforging haste?

 

Cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not entirely sure yet. From what I'm gathering from our gear choices, it seems we'll be getting a decent amount of haste and mastery from base stat figures on the gear itself. But this time there is no actual haste trinket, as in with the main stat being haste - not the proc itself. So I assume gemming will be the same as it was before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even in BIS gear Haste is at about 41% so until you reach 50% you're really not losing anything.  So stick with Haste!

Now the trinket Thok's Tail Tip will effect your next stat priority.

 

With Thok's Tail Tip: Haste > Crit > Mastery

 

Without: Haste > Mastery > Crit 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the 40% haste softcap considered with or without raidbuffs ?

The raid buff doesn't affect haste the same way gemming/stat haste does. It only adds % attack speed, not #haste, so CS and other skills don't have reduced cds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The raid buff doesn't affect haste the same way gemming/stat haste does. It only adds % attack speed, not #haste, so CS and other skills don't have reduced cds.

ok, got it.

Other question:  If i reach the 40% haste from own stats, my skills can be chain-cast with no pause in between right ?

Edited by Urgsta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, got it.

Other question:  If i reach the 40% haste from own stats, my skills can be chain-cast with no pause in between right ?

 

Your global wont effect you no, however your spells will still have there own countdowns so youd end up waiting for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

40% haste will not bring your GCD to 1s. No raid buffs affect your GCD, and even if they did, its not an additive formula.

 

The formula for your GCD is: (It's the same as casting speeds, or regular ret/prot CDs)

 

1s = Base GCD (1.5s) / 1.(Haste%) * 1.(Haste% from buffs)

 

Since no buffs (except Seal of Insight) affect your CDs/GCD specifically, then your only haste value to hit your GCD would be at 21250 haste rating, or 50% haste. However from several of my Ret Paladin friends, they seem to all agree that GCD plays little value in your dps compared to getting those CDs lowered, and eventually Mastery (or Crit with Thok's Trinket) takes over haste at a certain point.

Edited by Fouton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point at which crit or mastery overtake haste won't be reached before the new expansion is released. Getting to the 50% mark requires mostly heroic/heroic-warforged gear and even then haste is still insanely valuable because of sanctity of battle. You would eventually get to the point where you wouldn't ever have to exorcism because the CD for crusader strike/judgement/hammer of wrath is so low that you can essentially spam them under certain conditions. A good example of a fun gimmick for this is soloing Alysrazor. After a few stacks of the buff from the fire rings you'll have so much haste that you can just pop wings and spam hammer of wrath/TV and the boss just melts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen some stuff saying hit 40% and then swap to Mastery, but 50% is also the cap, so I believe it comes down to personal preference.  Our Mastery effect seems to always be a huge chunk of DPS (Hand of Light is consistently my #1 damaging ability) so I'm more inclined to hit 40% Haste and then go Mastery heavy for that reason alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um, you do realize that paladins also Lower their GCD whith Haste right? so its not like you go from having GCDs empty to no GCDs; it all scales linearly, they're going to use CS every 3 GCDs whether you have 0% haste or 50% haste, the only difference is that those  3GCDs take 4.5 seconds at 0% and 3 seconds at 50% haste. they're not just going to magically fill their empty GCDs becuase they get more haste, in factas they increase Haste they also increase the amount of empty GCDs in a given time period, e.g. if say 1 in 10 GCDs are empty, at 0% haste this means the pally gets 1 empty GCD ever 15 seconds or so, at 50% haste this would mean 1 empty GCD every 10 seconds. The only way to GCD lock a paladin is to get lucky with either DP procs or 4-set procs.

 

And Druids aren't the only GCD locked Tank. Protection Warriors are GCD locked, Brewmasters are GCD locked. As a protection warrior Shockwave, Stormbolt, Impending VIctory, or Victory both require GCDs that take aways from our DPS and more importantly our RPS, as a Brewmaster Leg sweep, Charging Ox Wave, Tiger's lust, Detox all are on The GCD and require us to give up GCD we could spend Tiger Palming to generate EB stacks. Hell, Chi Wave and Shattering Throw have Cast times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My apologies. I'm not in a good state and I'm just going to delete that post. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen some stuff saying hit 40% and then swap to Mastery, but 50% is also the cap, so I believe it comes down to personal preference.  Our Mastery effect seems to always be a huge chunk of DPS (Hand of Light is consistently my #1 damaging ability) so I'm more inclined to hit 40% Haste and then go Mastery heavy for that reason alone.

There technically is no cap for haste, even past 50% haste continues to lower the cooldown of all abilities affected by sanctity of battle (Judge,CS,HoW) so you would eventually replace the lower damage abilities with the higher damage ones. 50% is only a "cap"/threshold/whatever because mastery (or crit with the Thok trinket) starts to compete more. It's very relative to your gear/personal preference but I'd say anything in the 40%-50% haste range is yummy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

50% haste is a threshold because at that point your GCD becomes 1 second, and any further haste cannot drop  the GCD below 1 second so lowering the CD of abilities doesn't actually matter any more becuase unelss you can get them to multiple of 1 second its not going to have much affect. The next point for J/HoW is 100% haste, CS is at 125% haste, 66.66% for Exo but the AoW procs make this less valuable, so after 50% this point all haste is doing is accelerating your SoT ticks and white swings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, I'm a Warlock and likely have no place here, but I do have a Ret alt and talk to some of the best Retadins I know.  The reason for 40% instead of 50% is only after you acquire your 4pc bonus.  This is because you'll be spending more of your time on Holy Power consuming abilities instead of Holy Power building abilities.  Divine Storm takes a higher percentage of your skill use after your 4pc is acquired and you want it to hit harder.  It scales with Mastery, so that's why you sacrifice 10% to snag the extra Mastery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny enough Zagam, my ret friend that I go to for information on this JUST told me the same thing! I need to play a ret paladin finally so that I can have full knowledge of my class =( Prot/Holy is great, but knowing everything in my class might be more important =P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I pride myself on knowing 100% of Warlock stuff and 90% of every other class...just wanted to toss my two cents!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know Prot/Holy/Hunter and that's about where it ends =P After that it's friends knowledge, icy veins class guides, and looking up logs of my old heroic raiding guild

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to add a little theorycrafting in here, after 40% haste w/ 4pc t16, mastery is a popular addition because of how much it's affected by gemming, and while I personally haven't done it, you could also, with TTT, go for crit, it won't have any negative affect on your DPS, as crit = mastery anyway, but it could be more beneficial with the amplification going on. So keep that in mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps I don't understand what you mean, but how is it affected by gemming? Aren't all stats affected by gemming equally?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We get almost 2x as much mastery% from 160 and 320 stat gems as we do crit. I just tested it to make sure I was right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You also do from stats on gear as well :P All stats would be affected the same way, it's just what stat is better in a stat vs stat comparison. Either way I seemed to misunderstand what you were talking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just that with the amp, the crit is more effective over the mastery that's what I'm getting at :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh okay gotcha :) That is definitely true! Sorry it took me a bit to get what you meant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Casdon
      [US] Stormreaver — Skunkworks
      Tuesdays & Thursdays: 7:00 P.M. to 11:00 P.M. (pst) || 9-1 (cst) || 10-2 (est)
       
      Progression
      8/11M Antorus
      9/9M ToS
      10/10M Nighthold
      3/3M Trial of Valor
      7/7M Emerald Nightmare
       
      Website
      skunkworksguild.com
       
      About Us
      Skunkworks is a guild for players who can not or do not want to commit to the time-intensive raid schedules of traditional "hardcore" guilds.
      However, we still maintain a high caliber player environment and make an efficient use of our raiding time.
      We raid Tuesdays and Thursdays from 7:00 - 11:00 PST, just 8 hours a week and never more.
       
      We are very protective of our guild environment and selective in recruitment. We are looking for solid players mechanically as well as intellectually.
      We all get paid to deal with idiots, why should we pay to spend our leisure time with them as well?
       
      Skunkworks has been around for multiple expansions and has historically always been at the top of the 2-night raiding guild scene.
       
      Past Raiding Achievements
       
      #US 199 Mythic KJ #US 186 Mythic Archimonde #131 US Heroic Garrosh #68 US Heroic Ra-den #77 US Heroic Lei Shen #86 US Heroic Sha of Fear #106 US Heroic Madness of Deathwing #99 US Heroic Ragnaros #147 US Sinestra #91 US Heroic The Twilight Destroyer (Halion) #71 US Heroic Fall of the Lich King #247 US Tribute to Insanity #160 US Alone in the Darkness Current Guild Needs
      Amazing Range DPS ---Exceptional Candidates always considered regardless of recruiting needs.
       
      How to Apply
      Apply with Google Forms
      https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeL-LW1-7rRK28Z3Nswg4xD3-jjQWrIsCh77rYOdxKwY0oPPQ/viewform.
      All applications are kept private.
      Please include at least the following.
          Prominent links to relevant armory pages ]A guild history with reasons for departure
          The reason(s) you have chosen to apply to this guild
          Warcraft Logs
          UI screenshots or fraps/Stream footage
       
      Contact Information
      Shadaka (GM)
      Real ID:Shadak#1881
       
      Aerivore (Recruitment Officers)
      Real ID:  Aerivore#1581
       
      Sovm
      Real ID: Sov#1192
    • By Huard1968
      As a retribution Pally should I equip the Insignia of the Grand Army instead of either Soul of the Highlord or Chain of Thrayn.  Could not find in the icy-veins guide about this ring.
      Thanks
       
    • By Bicgurl
      Beside all the builds, rotations and bis legendaries, what are the ideal stat percentages  according to their importance haste>mastery>everything else? Other than valarjar berserkers, what are the other bis leggys for single target and mythic plus dungeons?
    • By Exploit
      Hi everyone,
      I, like many others, are trying to maximize DPS for their respective classes, mine in particular being ret paladin.
      In general, it seems like there are several sources of information for dps for each class.
      Icy Veins Mr Robot Raidbots (Simulation Craft) Warcraft Logs Each with its own set of criteria as to what determines high dps. And I find inconsistency when bouncing between the different sources. I want to understand what am I missing when it comes to each. I will lay out what I currently understand, and would like some feedback as to what I may not be considering in each as well as some advice as to what other options I could be exploring (resources) to further the insight into whats applicable for my current state.
      Icy Veins
      For Icy Veins, in particular, the stat weights, are mostly vaguely determined. From the ret guide:
       
      If I am reading this right, its Mastery >= Haste > Ver >= Crit = Str
      Mr Robot
      I use the addOn and I subscribe for the Best In Bags function. When I plug in my information in, the site recommends that I go with my 2pce t20 and balance around my legendaries with a focus on haste pieces (haste gems are emphasized).
      https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/a42136294c7f40b2b7ee78023306d786
      Stat weights as listed in MrRobot:
      MrRobot Stat Weights
      From what I am seeing, Crit is most emphasized, and the one crit gem + ring crit enchants were originally recommended by MrRobot here. Also another notable thing here is haste being way behind crit's potential.
      RaidBots (Simc)
      For RaidBots, I use the addOn, and play around with various items I hoard, and use the stat weights functions. Generally the feedback I get here are to stick with the current gem setup and with regards to stat weights, emphasize at my current setup with crit. It also says I should drop some of my high ilvl pieces (935 head, and 960 chest) for 4pce (915 head, lfr 890 chest)
      Gear simc:
      https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d3Qbkf6nqpoP4bxQ9YB2m
      Stat Weights:
      https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6NkVYwEaTW26FxD4wBwey4
      Vers -> crit -> mastery -> haste -> str
      (versitality first?)
      Warcraft Logs
      I mostly use Warcraft Logs to check what the top dps players (ret pallys) are hitting and what setups are they running. I don't want to specifically link player armories in here, but upon some investigation, you'll find most are just stacking haste
      ---
      I understand stat weights are relative, however it seems like everyone has different priorities, one says mastery, another vers, another crit, another haste?
      Help me understand.
      Thanks,
      Exploit