Aleco

Whats the Move? #2 - Improving at Hearthstone One Play at a Time

Sign in to follow this  

15 posts in this topic

KQoM59o.jpg

In episode two of "What's the Move?" Aleco discusses an open-ended situation which doesn't have a clear answer.

We kicked off this new series by analyzing a tricky situation which had only one optimal line of play. In episode two we'll take a look at a very different kind of situation, one where there might not be a perfect move at all.

Please let us know in the comments what you would have done in this situation! One of the primary goals of this series is to foster improvement at Hearthstone by generating discussions. We would also love to hear your feedback on the video itself, as the series is still very new and has plenty room to improve on its format.

- Aleco

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solid video! I would like to say that to me, it feels like a deck tracker or at least a decklist would be useful pieces of information. Also, I feel that you should avoid having things that draw or give cards in your hand, otherwise, knowing that we're making the decision with the available information, we know that we won't be using anything we draw or get from the glyph.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that vid, too.

SMOrcMan, I assume that's the point. It's an important part of the game how you deal with variables, knowing your own deck and the unknown. This hand in the vid including the Glyph as well as an Arcane Intellect made it a really interesting choice and an educative lesson as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Caldyrvan said:

I like that vid, too.

SMOrcMan, I assume that's the point. It's an important part of the game how you deal with variables, knowing your own deck and the unknown. This hand in the vid including the Glyph as well as an Arcane Intellect made it a really interesting choice and an educative lesson as well.

What I mean is that say we that it was a different scenario in which playing glyph was the right play. It would be impossible to do a what's the play since we're unable to see the options before we use it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, SMOrcMan said:

What I mean is that say we that it was a different scenario in which playing glyph was the right play. It would be impossible to do a what's the play since we're unable to see the options before we use it.

Why is that? If you play cards like glyph you know what you do if you get what you need and what you do if you don't get what you need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don't see the problem with having discover/draw cards involved. If you're playing those cards you still need plans for when they do or don't provide you with anything you want to play. Like here, the plan is arcane intellect into frostbolt, but if we luck out and draw our, um, Obliterate, we'll use that instead.

Edited by Bozonik

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice video again Aleco. I felt the hint maybe made it a bit too easy. I like the addition of the rope! It'd be nice to see the play leading up to the position rather than the clip from another game at the start. Guessing maybe that's because you weren't recording until you reached the decision point though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Strongpoint said:

Why is that? If you play cards like glyph you know what you do if you get what you need and what you do if you don't get what you need.

Yes, but this series is about what's the play, and I feel that what you just mentioned is an aspect of the play that also needs consideration. In essence, another play by itself. Like opting for the frostbolt over the arcanologist. By the basic assumption that the episode is about one play, we can therefore deduce that the optimal cards already exist in our hand and not in our deck. Do you see what I'm saying? (See what I provided below as well)

20 minutes ago, Bozonik said:

Yeah, I don't see the problem with having discover/draw cards involved. If you're playing those cards you still need plans for when they do or don't provide you with anything you want to play. Like here, the plan is arcane intellect into frostbolt, but if we luck out and draw our, um, Obliterate, we'll use that instead.

There are definitely cases in hearthstone in which you will make different plays based on what you draw, but the premise of these episodes has the underlying assumption that you won't draw something that will change your play, which in turn, already gives away part of the answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great video, keep it up!

Pressing pause blocks the hand.

Edit: clicking the youtube video link brings you to a player that doesn't hide the hand during pause.

Edited by Nathan5678

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the feedback guys! There's some really useful insight in these comments and I'll be sure to incorporate some of these tips into the next episode. I think its very relevant to show cards that are remaining in my deck and cards which have already been played by my opponent, so at a minimum I'll try to work that in to episode 3.

As to the debate about including cards which have hidden information (like Arcane Intellect and Primordial Glyph), I'm of the opinion that these cards should be treated no differently in the context of "what do you do right now?" than any other card. Sure, you don't have the luxury in this series of being able to draw cards before deciding what your next move is, but you don't have this luxury on ladder either. First you must commit to drawing cards, which is a decision in and of itself. With that said I totally see the point about how having cards like these involved in the equation muddies up the waters and don't anticipate that I will frequently include these cards in future episodes. Hope this clears things up!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Aleco said:

Thanks for all the feedback guys! There's some really useful insight in these comments and I'll be sure to incorporate some of these tips into the next episode. I think its very relevant to show cards that are remaining in my deck and cards which have already been played by my opponent, so at a minimum I'll try to work that in to episode 3.

As to the debate about including cards which have hidden information (like Arcane Intellect and Primordial Glyph), I'm of the opinion that these cards should be treated no differently in the context of "what do you do right now?" than any other card. Sure, you don't have the luxury in this series of being able to draw cards before deciding what your next move is, but you don't have this luxury on ladder either. First you must commit to drawing cards, which is a decision in and of itself. With that said I totally see the point about how having cards like these involved in the equation muddies up the waters and don't anticipate that I will frequently include these cards in future episodes. Hope this clears things up!

I see your point. Good luck on your next video! It's an interesting series. I feel like it would have been even more amazing back in patron days, but those days are gone. RIP warsong commander

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice video. Thank You - I like your solution.

Also like your answers to the relevant questions SMOrcMan had.

A deck list would be nice. But the hint about agression was OK also 

Looking forward to the next one

Best regards

PanPan

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got to the same conclusion as shown in the video. It even says in the topic that there is no absolute correct decision.

Still the explanation in the video makes it clear why he makes the plays (and why he is in no need to play the glyph, because there are better solutions already availible)

Nice episode!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/19/2017 at 4:52 AM, Bozonik said:

Yeah, I don't see the problem with having discover/draw cards involved. If you're playing those cards you still need plans for when they do or don't provide you with anything you want to play. Like here, the plan is arcane intellect into frostbolt, but if we luck out and draw our, um, Obliterate, we'll use that instead.

I personally chose to "use" AI, then paused after it drew so I could see what came from it. Don't know if others did the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Zadina
      The community card reveals begin with a Paladin card with Twinspell.
      Lightforged Blessing was revealed in a video with a catchy song by Japanese site Dekki.

      Every recent expansion has a card printed for Heal Paladin and Rise of Shadows is no exception. While it may not seem exciting at first glance, Lightforged Blessing can work really well with Wild Pyromancer and Immortal Prelate. Obviously this card isn't made to be used early, since Heal and Control Paladin don't really have early board presence, and one copy of it should be enough, since it has Twinspell. The other issue is that no matter how much support Heal Paladin keeps getting and even though its concept is well made, it never really took off as an archetype.
    • By Zadina
      The reveal period for Rise of Shadows kicks off with the customary reveal stream.
      Peter Whalen was joined by Chris Sierra and Cora "Songbird" Georgiou and they revealed a total of 12 cards. We also got an interesting tidbit of information as callbacks and Lackeys will be limited to the E.V.I.L classes, while the Twinspell Keyword will be available only to the Defenders of Dalaran.
      With Dr. Boom as his Legendary minion, Warrior is all about mechs and more importantly bombs!




      Rogue's leader is King Togwaggle who brings back Treasures.


      Rogue has another callback mechanic: Unidentified!

      Two potential Contracts were revealed; there are four in total.


      Mage is all about minions again. Maybe it will work this time!



      And here are two neutrals that were also revealed:


      The final reveal stream will take place on April 3rd and it will be presented by Dean "Iksar" Ayala, Brian Kibler and Chris Sierra. You can check out the schedule for the upcoming community reveals here.
      Card images are a courtesy of u/xcrouton.
    • By Zadina
      The Fortune Teller and member of the League of E.V.I.L is a Legendary minion for Priest.
      Madame Lazul was revealed by @PlayHearthstone on Twitter:
      Even though her effect is slightly unoriginal and perhaps not worthy of an orange gem, it's quite flavourful for Madame Lazul to be able to see through your opponent's hand. She can fill Curious Glimmerroot's place quite well. On the other hand, Chameleos offered a bit more insight on the opponent's hand and it wasn't really played in any serious decks. Lazul is more versatile thanks to the Discover effect.
      What's your take on this card?
    • By Zadina
      In his inaugural Hearthside Chat appearance, Chad "Celestalon" Nervig introduces us to the League of E.V.I.L. and shows two new Warrior and a Warlock card.
      Rafaam's Scheme: The number of 1/1 Imps grows each turn

      Omega Devastator

      Imrove Morale

      We also learn that the 5 Lackeys shown in the announcement video are all Lackeys we'll get for Rise of Shadows. More of them will be recruited in the upcoming expansions.
      Card images are a courtesy of Hearthpwn.
    • By Zadina
      Ever since the announcement of the Hearthstone Masters system, the details on the final tier - Hearthstone Grandmasters - have been a mystery. However, Tom Matthiesen from Inven Global has released some info on its format, prize pool and invited players.
      According to Inven Global, Hearthstone Grandmasters will have a league structure. It will consist of two seasons per year, with each season lasting eight weeks. Each region will have 16 players, who will be divided into two groups of eight. Europe and the Americas seem to be paired together, while it's not defined how Hearthstone Grandmasters will work for other regions.
      Inven has even acquired the names of 15 European participants and 13 from the Americas. They are all well-known pro players like Bunnyhoppor, Pavel, Thijs, Kolento, RDU, Firebat, Muzzy, Dog, Purple and more! The last four players will be determined by the results of the upcoming World Championship.
      Participants will play twice a week, facing off against each other in a double round-robin system. Hearthstone Grandmasters conclude with global finals. After the two seasons have ended, the two players who performed worst in season 2 in their respective region will be demoted and no longer play in Hearthstone Grandmasters.
      As far as the compensation of the players is concerned, each of them will earn $1,000 per week as an appearance fee. For each match won, another $500 is given to the participating players. The prize pool of the global finals is said to be $500,000. It's highly likely there'll be more rewards per seasonal performance.
      Hearthstone Grandmasters is set to start soon after the Hearthstone World Championships have concluded. Blizzard is expected to share these details sometime next week.