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Aleco

Whats the Move? #4 - Improving at Hearthstone One Play at a Time

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In episode number four of "What's the Move?" a fun OTK deck finds a creative way to handle a threat.

I've been having way too much fun with a Stonetusk Boar OTK (One Turn Kill) deck on the ladder these past few days. It's been performing surprisingly well against both of the two most popular decks in the current metagame, Highlander Priest and Tempo Rogue, but the real reason to play it is because of how much variety it has to offer from game to game. It's incredibly difficult to pilot and never fails to create interesting situations - just like the one we'll be discussing today!

Once again, I took some of the feedback from the previous episode to heart and did my best to incorporate it into this one. As this series is still young and in the process of honing on it's ideal set of parameters (such as the length of the video, the amount of depth it should go into, and the kinds of situations it analyzes), please feel free to let us know in the comment section how this episode compares its predecessors.

- Aleco

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So happy this deck is here after watching you on stream with it! I would have gone for Faceless on the Van Cleef, followed by Prep-Sap on theirs. 

Not sure how it would have played out after that, but I'd hope they'd already have burnt cheap cards propping up VC, meaning they would play a 4/4 or so the next turn, or simply hold onto him. Creeper the following turn and taken Cleef face for 8.

EDIT: Also on this, if they went to remove with Sap, they'd give you a free VC to play as you wish. With Vanish, you'd gain back your VC on a future turn. Also, if they wanted to Vilespine (assuming they had it), they'd need a cheap card to proc the combo or waste something to do it. Assuming they've just played Elemental, they likely won't have something ready for Vilespine?

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Ah, I didn't count the # of cards in the opponent's hand. That's a neat play. 

Any value to using a prep on the second vanish so you can jam a Doomsayer in there? This late in the game it seems like it's hard to pull off 'sayer without comboing with Vanish, and we're using both our Vanish here. 

Although if you know he has Vilespines left, you might be able to just assume the 'sayer gets Vilespine'd. 

 

Edited by enviousmtg

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6 hours ago, Blainie said:

snip

To this, giving up Faceless removes your combo win, and at that point you're trying to out-tempo tempo rogue, which I don't think this deck is in a position to do. 

Also, I'd tend to assume the worst that my opponent has Vilespine with seven cards in hand, although of course there's the chance he can't combo it. 

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Yeah, I didn't like copying the Edwin. It'd gonna be ugly if it got planted. Very nice solution, I didn't really think burning a card mattered too much for the opponent so I just went creeper+sap too, didn't spot that the Edwin gets burnt the following time.

Edited by Bozonik

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I really see 4 possible plays here.  You can either sap + tar creeper, faceless + prep + sap, coin + vanish > vanish, or (and my personal choice, punch him in the face + creeper + re-dagger.  Next turn, you are almost always going to vanish.  Why?  Because turn 7 is bonemare and you always always want the tempo rogues bored cleared going into turn 7.  With that in mind, playing out tar creeper > sap doesn't really do much, what ever he develops next turn is going to be bounced, so you are just stalling out eight damage, which is valuable, but you really want that sap for a bonemared minion or a cold blooded one, and in the grand scheme of the game, it will only really prevent a few damage at most (in other words wasting it on the vancleef will save you damage now, but down the line, not having it will cost you at least 4 damage from a bonemared minion probably more).  The faceless + prep + sap is good, but you lose out on your combo, and you have plenty of tools in your hand to stall the game out, plus even if your vancleef doesn't get eaten by a plant, you are still going to be left in an awful awkward position next turn since you won't be able to clear the board without vanish and you probably won't be able to get out another large vancleef, since you used your prep in that play, and he still has his vancleef to pressure you.  Coin + vanish > vanish is a very strong play, for all the reasons mentioned in the video and I really like the play.  Personally, I would have punched him in the face with my dagger, and then played a tar creeper.  If he has no way to deal with the tar creeper, I can kill vancleef next turn with dagger + eviserate, then vanish.  If not, I take some damage, and still vanish, both ways are painful, but they let you save your vanish, which, imo, is worth it.  Granted, I haven't played the boar otk deck, so the loss of life might simply be too much, but my general game plan would be vanish turn six (prep + evis to kill cleef if he had no answer to the creeper) then you can coin out valeera on turn eight and vanish on turn 9 (I have played plenty of decks with vanish and valeera in them though and that is such a strong play).  On top of that, if they do manage to kill your tarcreeper they are possibly wasting valuable damage on it with cold blood or deadly poison.  

Edited by VaraTreledees

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11 hours ago, enviousmtg said:

To this, giving up Faceless removes your combo win, and at that point you're trying to out-tempo tempo rogue, which I don't think this deck is in a position to do. 

Also, I'd tend to assume the worst that my opponent has Vilespine with seven cards in hand, although of course there's the chance he can't combo it. 

In the event that he couldn't remove, surely the 8 damage face could make up for the loss of the combo damage? I know I'm betting here on him not having it, but in the earlier part of the video, he discards 2 1-drops, which means it's even less likely he can trigger the combo without wasting cards.

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6 hours ago, VaraTreledees said:

too long to quote

You make some interesting points here. I have never played Rogue and your post (especiall in adition to the vid) gave me some valuable information. Thx!

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I like the vid, very educative especially for newer players, sadly I hate these kind of decks and if not playing ranked I just concede. Fun for the the one who plays it, very discouraging for the opponent.

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3 hours ago, Caldyrvan said:

I like the vid, very educative especially for newer players, sadly I hate these kind of decks and if not playing ranked I just concede. Fun for the the one who plays it, very discouraging for the opponent.

I'm guessing you mean OTK decks? If you're fast enough or put up enough pressure, or in this case, just a taunt or two, you can still win :p

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2 minutes ago, Blainie said:

I'm guessing you mean OTK decks? If you're fast enough or put up enough pressure, or in this case, just a taunt or two, you can still win :p

Well, it's not the OTK that bothers me, that is just one moment but before the decks tend to make the game as less fun as possible for the opponent through different mechanics (I agree the are effective^^) , so I do not bother to play against them if it's avoidable. :)

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11 minutes ago, Caldyrvan said:

Well, it's not the OTK that bothers me, that is just one moment but before the decks tend to make the game as less fun as possible for the opponent through different mechanics (I agree the are effective^^) , so I do not bother to play against them if it's avoidable. :)

Fair enough - they do often spend the game just stalling and never really doing anything other than creating more time.

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