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Assassination Rogue PvE

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Hey Seliathan, thanks for your guide. I'm new to rogue and Assassination and it helped me a lot.

 

If I have missed it somewhere, I am sorry. But could you get a little rundown of what I have to look out for when playing with Doomblade or Dashing Scoundrel?

I assume the energy reg from Dashing is only triggered from crits, while the Envenom DoT is running on the target? If so, I'd need to keep Envenom on all mobs in a pack, for example, right?

With Doomblade on the other hand... Open with Garrote/Subterfuge, maintain Rupture on X targets, and then spread the Mutilate DoT? Also Crimson Tempest counts towards the Envenom bonus - so prioritize Envenom on the focus target?

And if I'm not missing anything, there wouldn't be anything changing in single target. Keeping everything up as best as possible. Right?

 

Sorry if these questions are dumb. I'm just super unsure about which legendary to pick. Assassination feels kinda slow at times, due to downtime from lack of energy. So I thought Dashing might get rid of that. Or it might go away with better gear/more haste?

Thanks in advance!

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2 hours ago, everlong said:

Hey Seliathan, thanks for your guide. I'm new to rogue and Assassination and it helped me a lot.

 

If I have missed it somewhere, I am sorry. But could you get a little rundown of what I have to look out for when playing with Doomblade or Dashing Scoundrel?

I assume the energy reg from Dashing is only triggered from crits, while the Envenom DoT is running on the target? If so, I'd need to keep Envenom on all mobs in a pack, for example, right?

With Doomblade on the other hand... Open with Garrote/Subterfuge, maintain Rupture on X targets, and then spread the Mutilate DoT? Also Crimson Tempest counts towards the Envenom bonus - so prioritize Envenom on the focus target?

And if I'm not missing anything, there wouldn't be anything changing in single target. Keeping everything up as best as possible. Right?

 

Sorry if these questions are dumb. I'm just super unsure about which legendary to pick. Assassination feels kinda slow at times, due to downtime from lack of energy. So I thought Dashing might get rid of that. Or it might go away with better gear/more haste?

Thanks in advance!

Hey everlong, thanks for your kind words, and I'm glad the guide was of help to you so far already!

Regarding your question: Envenom is a buff that you apply to yourself. As you correctly pointed out, when using Dashing Scoundrel, the energy gain benefit from your poisons only applies when you have this buff active, but any poison crit will trigger it as long as you have the Envenom buff active after casting it. It doesn't matter which target you cast it on, as you get the buff on your character :)

The DoT effect from Doomblade works very similar to a class like Mages Ignite, where the damage is calculated in a way that no matter how often or on how many targets you cast it, no damage will be lost. If you use Mutilate 3 times on the same target, the legendary effect will deal the same amount of damage as if you cast it on 3 different ones. As such you should always use it on your priority target. On AoE you should always maintain Crimson Tempest, and as you already said yourself, this does benefit your Envenom damage. Doomblade is most effective on single-target as you will still use Fan of Knives as a builder once you fight 4 or more targets, and at that point it is not worth using Mutilate anymore, meaning the benefit of the Doomblade legendary is severely diminished. 

On single-target nothing changes, except that there is no reason to use Crimson Tempest on single-target. While it does increase the damage of any individual Envenom, you're better off using these Combo Points to just cast more Envenoms altogether, as you will have higher uptime on the buff this way and generate more energy than if you were to use CT on single-target.

I hope this cleared things up for you a bit, feel free to ask any more questions you have. Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're here to help and happy to do so :)

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1 hour ago, Seliathan said:

Hey everlong, thanks for your kind words, and I'm glad the guide was of help to you so far already!

Regarding your question: Envenom is a buff that you apply to yourself. As you correctly pointed out, when using Dashing Scoundrel, the energy gain benefit from your poisons only applies when you have this buff active, but any poison crit will trigger it as long as you have the Envenom buff active after casting it. It doesn't matter which target you cast it on, as you get the buff on your character 🙂

The DoT effect from Doomblade works very similar to a class like Mages Ignite, where the damage is calculated in a way that no matter how often or on how many targets you cast it, no damage will be lost. If you use Mutilate 3 times on the same target, the legendary effect will deal the same amount of damage as if you cast it on 3 different ones. As such you should always use it on your priority target. On AoE you should always maintain Crimson Tempest, and as you already said yourself, this does benefit your Envenom damage. Doomblade is most effective on single-target as you will still use Fan of Knives as a builder once you fight 4 or more targets, and at that point it is not worth using Mutilate anymore, meaning the benefit of the Doomblade legendary is severely diminished. 

On single-target nothing changes, except that there is no reason to use Crimson Tempest on single-target. While it does increase the damage of any individual Envenom, you're better off using these Combo Points to just cast more Envenoms altogether, as you will have higher uptime on the buff this way and generate more energy than if you were to use CT on single-target.

I hope this cleared things up for you a bit, feel free to ask any more questions you have. Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're here to help and happy to do so 🙂

Oh no, I didn't read the tooltip right... I'm embarrassed! Thank you so much for your clarification!

I'll start again and read from the beginning, to ensure that I get everything right. I will also craft Dashing first. Now that I understood the basics of it, it sounds easier and more fun to me, and I don't care for the 1,5% less DPS.

Thanks again and have a great day! 😄

 

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Hello again! I want to ask if our DOT's Garrote, Rupture and Deadly Poison snapshot during Elaborate Planning like they do during Vendetta or they just benefit from the buff while it is active. I use Subterfuge and Vanish during Vendetta to reapply Garrote but I want to make sure I'm not missing on extra dps by not reapplying during an Elaborate Planning window which I usually use to spam Envenom

Edited by Valengeta

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Hey. Elaborate planning dynamically applies to all your damage, so while it is active everything will deal extra damage, and once the buff expires the numbers will be back to "normal" again. Generally speaking, snapshotting isn't really a thing anymore unless it is very specific circumstances like Subterfuge or Nightstalker, as these buff a single ability cast. Damage amplifications that are more generalized like Elaborate Planning, or Subtleties Symbols of Death, work dynamically during their duration, but cannot snapshot. 

  • Thanks 1

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Guest Cloakd

Does Zoldyck increase the stat value of mastery? It seems strange to me that we increase our poison damage through legendries and conduits yet mastery and master poisoner talent is still valued low.

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Hey Cloakd.

The value of any poison or bleed related talents barely change depending on legendary choice. While MP does slightly gain over the alternative, it is not nearly enough to make up for that difference. At the end of the day, something like Elaborate Planning still effects your damage in execute too, or Blindside providing more Combo Points to maintain higher Envenom Uptime.

The same goes for secondary stats. Despite running Zoldyck, Mastery is still an undesirable stat, as all other secondaries simply increase your damage in a more comprehensive and meaningful way. As such you would still want to prioritize Crit+Haste for single-target.

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UPD: Retested after relog. Works. What the actual hell.

 

I didn't quite get. In talent section there's a point, quote:
 

Quote

Internal Bleeding Icon Internal Bleeding deals solid damage but it gets outperformed by Prey on the Weak Icon Prey on the Weak when it comes to damage in group content. It generates Energy via Venomous Wounds Icon Venomous Wounds which allows for more burst and is a very good pick for solo content.

Tested it for quite a while on maneken and I see no energy generation whatsoever until you apply Garrote and/or Rupture.

Edited by BainHAMMER

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Guest stealthboi

the assassin covenant  tab has no paths its just blank

 

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Guest Avengerx

Sorry if this is a silly question, but why would you recommend Zoldyck's (even as 3rd option) on Sylvanas when boss technically never reaches sub 30% hp? Okish for adds I know, but still...

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Hey Avengerx. It is still better than some of the other choices you have available, but as the ranking indicates, both Obedience and Doomblade are much stronger options.

Zoldyck is decent for P1 Arrowdmg, if your guild happens to struggle with that, and P2, but as you correctly pointed it, it doesn't do anything in P3. If you don't have either Doomblade or Obedience, you should run Dashing Scoundrel for P3 damage instead. 

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Guest Bokononn

Just curious if we will be seeing an update to this anytime soon.  This guide is a bit behind the curve as the section covering BiS has 0 information on the current raid or even the last raid.  It says it is updated for 9.1 and does cover briefly the domination shards, but no information on raid gear, including legendary daggers, from either raid?  Will this be fixed at some point?

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17 hours ago, Guest Bokononn said:

Just curious if we will be seeing an update to this anytime soon.  This guide is a bit behind the curve as the section covering BiS has 0 information on the current raid or even the last raid.  It says it is updated for 9.1 and does cover briefly the domination shards, but no information on raid gear, including legendary daggers, from either raid?  Will this be fixed at some point?

 

Hey Bokononn.

As it says at the beginning of the Gear section in the Foreword, the  rogue theorycrafting community as a whole has decided against putting out BiS lists. Our secondary stats tend to be very close in value so there often are multiple choices for each slot, and giving out information on what would be the "perfect" gear will more often than not lead to wrong decisions when it comes to the gearing process, as the reason why any specific item would appear in a BiS list is due to all the other items in it. I.e. the same item might be BiS for one player but not for the others, especially now that secondary stats have diminishing returns as well. Soulbind and Covenant choices also heavily affect the gearing process, and Assassination Rogues do not have one Covenant that is always better than all the others in every situation.

BiS lists are generated by picking out specific items from all the possible options, but with the Great Vault offering countless high item-level pieces from Mythic+, there exist multiple gear-sets that all sim within the margin of error, and thus any one of them could be considered "BiS". As you do not get all items at once, but slowly improve and gain access to new items, the combination of items that will ultimately be the best for your characters therefore depends on which items you already have, and they are used as a basis for improving your gear in the best possible way. Another player might've started his gearing with a different set of high item-level pieces, had a different stat distribution from those items, and thus the recommended pieces would be different than yours. 

That is why we will always recommend using Raidbots.com to sim yourself, by using the top-gear option when comparing items from the Great Vault, or using the Droptimizer to find the strongest upgrades for your character from the Raid. Both of these will take into account your current set up already, while also offering customization if you plan on changing to a different talent setup, or even use a different legendary or covenant. 

I hope this answer helps a bit, and if you have any further questions on how best to use Raidbots.com I'm more than happy to help out with that.

Regards,

Seliathan

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5 hours ago, Guest timbo said:

Hello. The class tree is wrong. That is not the classtree in the game. 

Heyo. What do you mean by that exactly?

If it's because of the icons, we are aware of some bugs with the talent calculator, where the icons do not match the ones that are in-game. The tooltips are all accurate, however, and you can also just use the import links and they should allow you to quickly play the suggested talents 🙂

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Guest Leiruza

Hello,

Since the patch it seems I can't use the macro :

  • #showtooltip
  • /cast [@focus] Tricks of the Trade

Is it just me ? Or is there a problem with the focus ?

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12 hours ago, Guest Leiruza said:

Hello,

Since the patch it seems I can't use the macro :

  • #showtooltip
  • /cast [@focus] Tricks of the Trade

Is it just me ? Or is there a problem with the focus ?

Heyo. This may seem like an odd counter-question, but have you talented into the spell? It is no longer a baseline ability for us sadly 😞

I can't actually test it myself right now, as I have no one to cast tricks on, but just trying a [@focus] Kick macro worked just fine, so the Syntax is definitely still functional. 

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Guest Leiruza
4 hours ago, Seliathan said:

Heyo. This may seem like an odd counter-question, but have you talented into the spell? It is no longer a baseline ability for us sadly 😞

I can't actually test it myself right now, as I have no one to cast tricks on, but just trying a [@focus] Kick macro worked just fine, so the Syntax is definitely still functional. 

Oh, that's it ! I feel a little ashamed for myself but at least I know, thanks !

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Guest JCB

Hey there! Thanks for the guides! I have been unable to play regularly since Legion and this is definitely helpful!

Quick question on the single target opening: why do we use Garrote twice? Doesn't the second one overwrite the empowered one from stealth? I've been using (from stealth): Garrote, S&D, Echoing Reprimand (with RC), Rupture (which is almost always a 7 pointer due to RC), Exsang, DM, Mut, Envenom (to refresh S&D), then continuing on with the priorities. I'm specced into DTB, so Kingsbane is not a part of my rotation. What do you think of this?

Also, been using Amplifying, Instant, Crippling, and Atrophic as my poisons. Is that correct? 

Thanks in advance for everyone's input. 

 

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5 hours ago, Guest JCB said:

Hey there! Thanks for the guides! I have been unable to play regularly since Legion and this is definitely helpful!

Quick question on the single target opening: why do we use Garrote twice? Doesn't the second one overwrite the empowered one from stealth? I've been using (from stealth): Garrote, S&D, Echoing Reprimand (with RC), Rupture (which is almost always a 7 pointer due to RC), Exsang, DM, Mut, Envenom (to refresh S&D), then continuing on with the priorities. I'm specced into DTB, so Kingsbane is not a part of my rotation. What do you think of this?

Also, been using Amplifying, Instant, Crippling, and Atrophic as my poisons. Is that correct? 

Thanks in advance for everyone's input. 

 

Hey JCB!

Due to taking the talent Improved Garrote, we get a similar effect like the old talent Subterfuge, that you might still be familiar with. It allows for casting Garrote up to three times while still retaining its stealth-based bonuses from talents like Shrouded Suffocation.

We apply a second garrote to extend its duration to the absolute maximum, utilizing the pandemic mechanic that is inherent to almost all DoTs and buffs/HoTs.. It is detailed in the rotation section of the guide, Point 6.2:

Quote

When you refresh Rupture, Garrote, Crimson Tempest, Envenom or Slice and Dice before they expire, the remaining duration is added to the newly applied effect, up to 30% of the newly applied base duration. This mechanic is called "Pandemic".

As we want to use Exsanguinate immediately after, we want to ensure that both the Rupture and the Garrote duration are as long as possible to speed up the maximum possible amount of DoT ticks.

Even without Exsanguinate, we double Garrote in order to gain additional ticks (18 seconds vs 23.4 seconds duration) with the massively increased Garrote damage bonuses. It also generates a guaranteed 3 Combo Points thanks to Shrouded Suffocation, which makes it a very efficient and reliable Combo Point generator as well. 

I hope that clears up the Garrote question 🙂

As for the poisons, you will want to use Deadly Poison and Amplifying, as well as your choice of Numbing/Atrophic or Crippling. Amplifying Poison, Deadly Poison and Instant Poison all deal the same damage when they proc, while DP has an additional DoT effect, and Amplifying boosts your envenom damage. Instant Poison is simply inferior to either of them, as it has no added bonus (and Wound Poison deals 50% of the damage of the other poisons per proc). 

As for your opener, you want to leverage the Pandemic mechanic to extend the duration of your bleeds as much as possible. This is why the suggested opener would be: Garrote, SnD, Garrote, Rupture, ER, Rupture, Exsanguinate. This way, you cast both abilities twice, with a fully pandemic'ed 7CP Rupture (which lasts over 40 seconds) and Garrote, which then get duplicated by your Deathmark. 

I hope this helped understand the rotational priorities in your opener a bit better, and if you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask. ❤️

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Guest JCB

That is extremely helpful! A lot has changed since Legion. I don't remember having to manage quite so many DoTs and CDs back then. This definitely clears things up for me! 

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Guest Basta Maelstormrog

Hello fellow adventurers I have a question regarding this macros 

#showtooltip

/cast [known:Serrated Bone Spike] Serrated Bone Spike; [known:Sepsis] Sepsis

Question: is it possible to modify this macro so that Serrated Bone Spike is used with a mouseover option?

I've tried couple of times but I'm not very good with writing macro so my macro becomes broken.

Any suggestions please? 

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On 1/22/2023 at 4:35 PM, Guest Basta Maelstormrog said:

Hello fellow adventurers I have a question regarding this macros 

#showtooltip

/cast [known:Serrated Bone Spike] Serrated Bone Spike; [known:Sepsis] Sepsis

Question: is it possible to modify this macro so that Serrated Bone Spike is used with a mouseover option?

I've tried couple of times but I'm not very good with writing macro so my macro becomes broken.

Any suggestions please? 

Hey Basta.

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,exists][known:Serrated Bone Spike] Serrated Bone Spike; [known:Sepsis] Sepsis

Does the trick. This will cast SBS on your mouseover, if you do not have a mouseover it will cast it on your target, and if youre talented into Sepsis instead, it will simply cast Sepsis at your target. Hope this helps 🙂

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