Damien

[Archived] Restoration Shaman 5.4

102 posts in this topic

This thread is for comments about our Restoration Shaman guide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to point out that the talent "Primal Elementalist" grants your elementals abilitys that can be channeled on the caster. Earth elemental casts Reinforce which reduces damage taken by 20% and increases healing by 10%.Fire elemental can channel Empower, which increases damage and healing dealt by 10%.

Edited by FatCheeseMan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to point out that the talent "Primal Elementalist" grants your elementals abilitys that can be channeled on the caster. Earth elemental casts Reinforce which reduces damage taken by 20% and increases healing by 10%.Fire elemental can channel Empower, which increases damage and healing dealt by 10%.

Thank you! I added descriptions of these abilities to the talent page ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi!

I was just reading fast true the guide here, and from reading it I understand its going to give a fast overview off the class, as its not really going deep into the reasons behind. my first impression is sadly this is not a MoP guide yet.

I'm not sure if this guide is suppose to reflect shamans in MoP or shamans before MoP goes live with new talents at lvl 85, pre event etc. (its a little bit of both in the guide here. with talents and abilities you dont have before 90, but gear and stats for 85 etc)

The haste softcaps listed is for lvl 85 as far as i can see. I recommend to look up at Binkenstein's, Healer Haste Breakpoint Cards.: for softcaps for lvl 90

https://docs.google....ZkMWFxWmc#gid=1

The BiS list is outdated (cata list) i would believe this gets updated before MoP hits?

-same goes for proffesions, enchants, etc.

Telluric Currents is not as effective as a manaregn as it was in cata. In cata this scaled of the damage your LB did, making it return quite the bit of mana on fights like Deathwing Madness, when cataclysm is being channeled. (could easy return 16k from a cast if you crit). This was never an intended design, and GC even posted and saying its suppose to make Shamans dps without geting punished, not being a way of returning mana.

in MoP the glyp will return a wooping 2% of our maximum mana (2% *300k = 6000mana) With the LB cost at 4260 mana this gives back 1740 mana per cast. Assuming a haste rating of 3500 if we chain cast LB we will end up with about 4k mp5, And this is an unrealistic number, and not attainable in any way during a fight......

Makes the glyph itself close to useless as a pure manaregen, and probably only a good choice if there's allot of downtime, or if you have to dps to overcome a fight, which is also the intended design. This alone makes other glyphs better choices in most cases.

Elemental Blast is an unappealing choice for a restro, even casting it on a CD is a net loss on both healing and efficiency, the random buff and its long casting time make sure of that, should not be a choice for any restro shaman.

For the tier 6 talent, Unleashed fury, its worth taking note that it is applied on the target whereas unleash life is applied on the shaman and that if used together and not separately the buffs are multiplicative.

macros for the new empovered elements, (found on MMO-champion)

Primal Elementalist: Earth Element Macro:

#showtooltip/cast Earth Elemental Totem/cast Reinforce

-Click it twice (watch out for lag) to summon your Earth Ele and have him channel his buff on you. Not worth worrying and micromanaging attacking vs. channeling the buff because of his low damage output (~4kish dps).

Primal Elementalist: Fire Elemental Macro

#showtooltip/cast Fire Elemental Totem/cast Empower

-Click it twice (watch out for lag) to summon your Fire Ele and have him channel his buff on you. It would be more beneficial to switch between having the Fire Ele attacking (currently doing 20k+ dps) and channeling.

Edited by haugennr1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The elemental tier gloves with haste/mastery/red socket vs the resto tier gloves with spirit/crit/blue socket should be considered for the BiS gear list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So for the 30% haste cap. With 5% buff and AS. you say the cap is 2294 Rating. I am at 2301. And I am not getting that last tic. How many should I be getting? I am couting the first heal i am getting 9 ticks below and above that cap. Shouldn't I be getting a 10th stack?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So for the 30% haste cap. With 5% buff and AS. you say the cap is 2294 Rating. I am at 2301. And I am not getting that last tic. How many should I be getting? I am couting the first heal i am getting 9 ticks below and above that cap. Shouldn't I be getting a 10th stack?

What spell are you looking at? For as far as I can see the 30% only adds an extra tick on ability_shaman_healingtide.jpgHealing Tide Totem and spell_nature_giftofthewaterspirit.jpgHealing Rain putting both spells on 7 ticks total.

Are you testing this in a raid environment with both AS and the 5% haste buff?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What spell are you looking at? For as far as I can see the 30% only adds an extra tick on ability_shaman_healingtide.jpgHealing Tide Totem and spell_nature_giftofthewaterspirit.jpgHealing Rain putting both spells on 7 ticks total.

Are you testing this in a raid environment with both AS and the 5% haste buff?

Yeah after looking more into it you are correct, i was gettting my numbers all mixed up. I did figure out what you just said. I had riptide on the mind and assumed wrong :D thanks for clarifying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to say that Haugennr1's feedback is very good, and if you haven't seen and implemented his suggestions yet you should consider it Posted Image

Edited by Stoove

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi!

--lot of interesting comments--

Thank you for the detailed feedback. I agree that the guide (all guides actually) have one foot at level 85 and the other one at level 90. It's inevitable at this stage and everything will be back on track when MoP is released.

I'll discuss all your points further tomorrow, as it is time for me to head to bed ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you! I added descriptions of these abilities to the talent page Posted Image

It appears that you need to look at another change; you say on the talents page that "Primal Elementalist will increase your damage throughput only", when it will in fact increase healing throughput (in bursts) as well through the abilities described above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi!

I was just reading fast true the guide here, and from reading it I understand its going to give a fast overview off the class, as its not really going deep into the reasons behind. my first impression is sadly this is not a MoP guide yet.

I'm not sure if this guide is suppose to reflect shamans in MoP or shamans before MoP goes live with new talents at lvl 85, pre event etc. (its a little bit of both in the guide here. with talents and abilities you dont have before 90, but gear and stats for 85 etc)

The haste softcaps listed is for lvl 85 as far as i can see. I recommend to look up at Binkenstein's, Healer Haste Breakpoint Cards.: for softcaps for lvl 90

https://docs.google....ZkMWFxWmc#gid=1

The BiS list is outdated (cata list) i would believe this gets updated before MoP hits?

-same goes for proffesions, enchants, etc.

As I already said, the guide is trying to accommodate to both level 85 and level 90 players. For example, someone who plays the beta won't be as interested in the stats as someone who plays on live servers. Also, players on the beta won't be farming BiS items, so there's no real reason for updating the BiS listings at the time.

You said that the guide is not "really going deep into the reasons behind". This is true, although for many players, it's already a long guide. The thing is that we have to follow 31 combinations of class and spec (34 when Monks will be added). When releasing brand new guides for all these combinations, we can't really take the time to go deep, especially since things were still changing at the time of writing.

This is why our guides are in the state they currently are. Now, we're going to get feedback, such as yours, and the guide will improve over time and include more and more things. When Mists of Pandaria is released, they will be updated.

Telluric Currents is not as effective as a manaregn as it was in cata. In cata this scaled of the damage your LB did, making it return quite the bit of mana on fights like Deathwing Madness, when cataclysm is being channeled. (could easy return 16k from a cast if you crit). This was never an intended design, and GC even posted and saying its suppose to make Shamans dps without geting punished, not being a way of returning mana.

in MoP the glyp will return a wooping 2% of our maximum mana (2% *300k = 6000mana) With the LB cost at 4260 mana this gives back 1740 mana per cast. Assuming a haste rating of 3500 if we chain cast LB we will end up with about 4k mp5, And this is an unrealistic number, and not attainable in any way during a fight......

Makes the glyph itself close to useless as a pure manaregen, and probably only a good choice if there's allot of downtime, or if you have to dps to overcome a fight, which is also the intended design. This alone makes other glyphs better choices in most cases.

For example, this is the kind of suggestion that is going into the guide. Thank you for it :)

Elemental Blast is an unappealing choice for a restro, even casting it on a CD is a net loss on both healing and efficiency, the random buff and its long casting time make sure of that, should not be a choice for any restro shaman.

Added a mention of that.

For the tier 6 talent, Unleashed fury, its worth taking note that it is applied on the target whereas unleash life is applied on the shaman and that if used together and not separately the buffs are multiplicative.

Thank you for that!

macros for the new empovered elements, (found on MMO-champion)

Primal Elementalist: Earth Element Macro:

#showtooltip/cast Earth Elemental Totem/cast Reinforce

-Click it twice (watch out for lag) to summon your Earth Ele and have him channel his buff on you. Not worth worrying and micromanaging attacking vs. channeling the buff because of his low damage output (~4kish dps).

Primal Elementalist: Fire Elemental Macro

#showtooltip/cast Fire Elemental Totem/cast Empower

-Click it twice (watch out for lag) to summon your Fire Ele and have him channel his buff on you. It would be more beneficial to switch between having the Fire Ele attacking (currently doing 20k+ dps) and channeling.

I added a lot of material on the guide (in the talents, rotation, and macros pages). Let me know what you think.

The elemental tier gloves with haste/mastery/red socket vs the resto tier gloves with spirit/crit/blue socket should be considered for the BiS gear list.

Fixed, thank you for spotting this!

It appears that you need to look at another change; you say on the talents page that "Primal Elementalist will increase your damage throughput only", when it will in fact increase healing throughput (in bursts) as well through the abilities described above.

This should be worded better now :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to point out that now that Elemental Mastery is a talent now you can use elemental Tier 2 set bonus and get the same cooldown as resto 4 piece with the added bonus of a 1k mastery buff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About the Elemental Mastery talent. What you say about the Elemental 2 piece and 1k extra mastery is true, but don't forget that you also lose the 5% haste and instant cast cd that Ancestral Swiftness provides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to point out that now that Elemental Mastery is a talent now you can use elemental Tier 2 set bonus and get the same cooldown as resto 4 piece with the added bonus of a 1k mastery buff.

About the Elemental Mastery talent. What you say about the Elemental 2 piece and 1k extra mastery is true, but don't forget that you also lose the 5% haste and instant cast cd that Ancestral Swiftness provides.

About that, I should probably make a note in the guide, but Tier 13 bonuses will no longer be useful in 2 weeks and a half. So I'm not sure it is worth updating the guide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A significant new thing came about recently; well known theorycrafter Vixsin (of Life in Group Five fame) published a new analysis of Crit and Mastery and the interplay between them. You can find it here. The important result is that Crit and Mastery are very closely comparable in terms of their throughput and benefits in MoP.

Hence, for MoP I recommend that you reconsider the stat priorities you state; for progression, I suggest Int>Spi>Haste Breakpoint>Mastery~Crit>Haste, rather than the current Int>Spi>Haste Breakpoint>Mastery>Haste>Crit. The argument between Crit and Haste is a long one, but I believe that Vixsin provides a reasonable argument within that article to support the change in stat priorities.

I would also suggest that you note to the reader that exactly which stat you like best has to depend on your spell distribution and the average health level of your raid, and explain that balancing this is for more advanced players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A significant new thing came about recently; well known theorycrafter Vixsin (of Life in Group Five fame) published a new analysis of Crit and Mastery and the interplay between them. You can find it here. The important result is that Crit and Mastery are very closely comparable in terms of their throughput and benefits in MoP.

Hence, for MoP I recommend that you reconsider the stat priorities you state; for progression, I suggest Int>Spi>Haste Breakpoint>Mastery~Crit>Haste, rather than the current Int>Spi>Haste Breakpoint>Mastery>Haste>Crit. The argument between Crit and Haste is a long one, but I believe that Vixsin provides a reasonable argument within that article to support the change in stat priorities.

I would also suggest that you note to the reader that exactly which stat you like best has to depend on your spell distribution and the average health level of your raid, and explain that balancing this is for more advanced players.

Thanks for the link! I'll mention this post when I'll redo the stat page for Restoration Shaman. But that will happen only after MoP is released ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the link! I'll mention this post when I'll redo the stat page for Restoration Shaman. But that will happen only after MoP is released Posted Image

's cool. As long as it's on your radar :) Thanks for all the hard work!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Further to my comments on stat priorities, I did a bit of Theorycraft myself on the topic of Crit/Spirit/Intellect and what's known as "pseudo-throughput". I found that Crit is a good stat, though you can't replace Spirit with it completely. It's somewhere on the level of Intellect overall (roughly). I think this supports Vixsin's conclusions and what I was saying earlier about Crit, Haste, Mastery tradeoffs.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FYI on the resto shaman BIS listings for the tier pieces you have the elemental pieces listed. Not catastrophic, but potentially confusing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FYI on the resto shaman BIS listings for the tier pieces you have the elemental pieces listed. Not catastrophic, but potentially confusing.

Really? They have the Resto Tier set listed...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FYI on the resto shaman BIS listings for the tier pieces you have the elemental pieces listed. Not catastrophic, but potentially confusing.

Really? They have the Resto Tier set listed...

In the gearing up guides, Elemental pieces were listed, but not Restoration pieces. In the Elemental Shaman guide, Restoration pieces were listed, but not Elemental pieces. Hopefully, you see what I did there :P

In any case, thank you for spotting the issue, it is now fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since I always use this website as a reference, I just want to point out one of my observation.

At this point in time (MV and early HoF raids), many of the "top" (log-wise) resto shamans are gemming for Spirit > Int. In addition, they all use Revitalizing Primal Diamond over the recommended Burning Primal Diamond. This is probably because at this gear level, mana regeneration is the biggest problem right now. Also, keep in mind that Int no longer affects mana pool, so your mana will remain static at 300k. I am sure this will turnaround to Int > Spirit until comfortable in a couple of tiers.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Casdon
      [US] Stormreaver — Skunkworks
      Tuesdays & Thursdays: 7:00 P.M. to 11:00 P.M. (pst) || 9-1 (cst) || 10-2 (est)
       
      Progression
      7/11M Antorus
      9/9M ToS
      10/10M Nighthold
      3/3M Trial of Valor
      7/7M Emerald Nightmare
       
      Website
      skunkworksguild.com
       
      About Us
      Skunkworks is a guild for players who can not or do not want to commit to the time-intensive raid schedules of traditional "hardcore" guilds.
      However, we still maintain a high caliber player environment and make an efficient use of our raiding time.
      We raid Tuesdays and Thursdays from 7:00 - 11:00 PST, just 8 hours a week and never more.
       
      We are very protective of our guild environment and selective in recruitment. We are looking for solid players mechanically as well as intellectually.
      We all get paid to deal with idiots, why should we pay to spend our leisure time with them as well?
       
      Skunkworks has been around for multiple expansions and has historically always been at the top of the 2-night raiding guild scene.
       
      Past Raiding Achievements
       
      #US 199 Mythic KJ #US 186 Mythic Archimonde #131 US Heroic Garrosh #68 US Heroic Ra-den #77 US Heroic Lei Shen #86 US Heroic Sha of Fear #106 US Heroic Madness of Deathwing #99 US Heroic Ragnaros #147 US Sinestra #91 US Heroic The Twilight Destroyer (Halion) #71 US Heroic Fall of the Lich King #247 US Tribute to Insanity #160 US Alone in the Darkness Current Guild Needs
      Amazing Range DPS ---Exceptional Candidates always considered regardless of recruiting needs.
       
      How to Apply
      Apply with Google Forms
      https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeL-LW1-7rRK28Z3Nswg4xD3-jjQWrIsCh77rYOdxKwY0oPPQ/viewform.
      All applications are kept private.
      Please include at least the following.
          Prominent links to relevant armory pages ]A guild history with reasons for departure
          The reason(s) you have chosen to apply to this guild
          Warcraft Logs
          UI screenshots or fraps/Stream footage
       
      Contact Information
      Shadaka (GM)
      Real ID:Shadak#1881
       
      Aerivore (Recruitment Officers)
      Real ID:  Aerivore#1581
       
      Sovm
      Real ID: Sov#1192
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our HCT World Championships coverage.
    • By Vlad
      This thread is for comments about our Blaze build guide for Heroes of the Storm.
    • By Xzylion
      Hi
      So, lately I have been looking around the web for someone to explain how I can insert an icon/bar that displays the "buff" Feral Spirit. I am mainly using the Tell Me When addon, but I had to go  through Weak Auras this time to get it right. I also want to mention that I would not have been able to get it right had I not imported the Weak Auras string from Wordup (author of the enhancement shaman guide). The reason for this being so complicated is because contrary to what you might think, Feral Spirit does not work as a buff. Therefore you will have to manually work around this problem to get it to work. I have added some pictures that will hopefully make the process easier.
      PS. I am in no way an expert on either Tell Me When or Weak Auras, so be gentle...
      1) Tell Me When:

      This is the general layout. If you dont want an icon, but a bar. You can go into the "group" tab (bottom right of tell me when) and select bar (on the very top)
       

      This is how the layout inside Tell Me When should look after completion. Feral Spirit is no longer a "buff", so you will have to make a Combat Event where you manually enter the amount of seconds the combat event (Feral Spirit) should be active, in this case 15 seconds
       

      This is important: Events to check --> Casts --> Spell Cast Success
      After all that you should be ready to go!
       
       
      2) Weak Auras:

       

      Feral Spirit is no longer a "buff", so you will have to make a Combat Log where you manually enter the amount of seconds the combat event (Feral Spirit) should be active, in this case 15 seconds
       

      Just scrolling down
       

      All the way at the bottom you have to enter the Spell Name and the amount of seconds that the Combat Event (Feral Spirit) should be active.
      Now you should be all ready to go!