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Damien

[Archived] Restoration Shaman 5.4

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I think that Artemas raised what my analysis (posted earlier) was trying to say. That's certainly how I'm running as well.

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As it is a fix value in the healing rotation, i think, you should add the HST to it instead of "just" mentioning it in the CD Section.

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As it is a fix value in the healing rotation, i think, you should add the HST to it instead of "just" mentioning it in the CD Section.

Mutterkorn has a point; HST is regularly top on my healing done and is absolutely invaluable when there's spread raid damage (see most Stone Guard fights). Using HST on cooldown is an important thing to do in order to start optimizing.

There are cleverer ways of using it, but those are situational and difficult to explain (hence I don't recommend you go into full detail in the guide), but high uptime is always imperative and you would improve the guide by clearly stating that.

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There's the 20% Haste Breakpoint missing in the Haste section.

According to other guides (like http://elitistjerks....5_05_mop/#Haste), there is en extra Tick in HST and HTT at 20% Haste or 3764 Haste Rating (3306 for Goblins). I think, this should be added even if this seems to be bugged at the moment.

Edited by Mutterkorn

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There's the 20% Haste Breakpoint missing in the Haste section.

According to other guides (like http://elitistjerks....5_05_mop/#Haste), there is en extra Tick in HST and HTT at 20% Haste or 3764 Haste Rating (3306 for Goblins). I think, this should be added even if this seems to be bugged at the moment.

I don't think it's bugged.

From a discussion about Dire Beast for Hunters which I had with Damien, the ticks appear to be probabilistic rather than broken. I think it's specifically designed so that the mean number of ticks you get over the course of many repeats scales linearly (ish) with haste! :)

If it's been hotfixed or anything can you link me a source for confirmation please? :)

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In the EJ Post i linked, they speak of a known bug.

Thats where i have the info from.

So that will be my source, if it's being fixed. ;-)

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I'm not sure about what they're saying. I understand the thread, but their testing methods seem ambiguous. I might have to sign up for an EJ forums account because some questions need asking. For the moment, and since it's "bugged" anyway, I'd say don't update the guide with HST/HTT breakpoints until it's fixed or we know what's going on.

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They also say, that the fixed Breakpoints will be unaffected from a fix and that the extra ticks on teh totems at the moment seem to appear unaffected by the breakpoints.

But waiting till its fixed and the final effects will be tested and confirmed seems right.

But normaly EJ is good in Shaman Theoretics, for they have a strong Shaman Community.

Edited by Mutterkorn

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To be honest, from their information it looks like they're doing a single test at each haste breakpoint, which could be screwing their results if it's probabilistic. I need to find out Posted Image

UPDATE:

I did a bit of digging and we have some more information on this. Firstly; the research done for the Haste breakpoint cards (which most people quote) only used one try per haste value.

Secondly, someone did multiple repetitions of the same test; over lots of tries, they saw a swapping between two different tick numbers! This was without any change in haste value over the testing period.

What that implies is that it's entirely possible that the tick mechanic is probabilistic and nobody's tried to model that yet...

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As i understand them, they took the Breakpoints from tankspot.com.

As far as i know, this is an often used source for those.

But i am very willing to be corrected.Posted Image

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As i understand them, they took the Breakpoints from tankspot.com.

As far as i know, this is an often used source for those.

But i am very willing to be corrected.Posted Image

They look to be calculated by multiple people. It's not the calculation that I'm worried about, it's how they tested whether the theory is right. This is very important (see my updated last post).

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Guest Riot

I noticed your Haste Breakpoint chart is slightly out of date. Here is an updated chart with all the haste breakpoints needed to hit (Credit to Elitist Jerks)

[Table removed - Stoove]

Please note the spells highlighted in red, there is other times when they will gain an extra tick of heal in-between the normal spots above, but have not yet been 100% identified yet and are almost at random.

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Thanks for the contribution, Riot. The table didn't copy the format over and it was unreadable, so I removed it.

Please note the spells highlighted in red, there is other times when they will gain an extra tick of heal in-between the normal spots above, but have not yet been 100% identified yet and are almost at random.

We have been discussing this at length literally right above your post. There are two current theories at the moment, but neither of them to our knowledge have been proven. If you see my post & link;

I got to publish what I could do myself in the limited time available.

I lay out why I think that the "random breakpoints" is actually a probability-based thing. Binkenstein also put forward the same idea at about the same time as I formalised my idea, as well as another idea for the source of it.

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Guest saras393

I have a question about Ask Mr. Robot...I see that Icy Veins and Mr. Robot are working together and I am not getting any response from them so I thought I would ask here. I have been using Mr. Robot to help with reforging but now I was wondering about this:

PvE: Temporary Weights

Spirit > Haste (12.5%) > Mastery > Haste > Crit

These weights are a guess, based on past experience. Mr. Robot is working hard to finish a mathematical model of Restoration Shamans. Look for new weights and some theorycraft information soon!

That has been the PvE build for quite sometime soon and I am wondering if Mr. Robot is the best for resto shamans at the moment...it seems like Mr. Robot is reforging me out of spirit (not much but some)...so basically my question to you is that your guide says until you feel comfortable...how does Mr. Robot decide when spirit is enough?

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PvE: Temporary Weights

Spirit > Haste (12.5%) > Mastery > Haste > Crit

These weights are a guess, based on past experience. Mr. Robot is working hard to finish a mathematical model of Restoration Shamans. Look for new weights and some theorycraft information soon!

That has been the PvE build for quite sometime soon and I am wondering if Mr. Robot is the best for resto shamans at the moment...it seems like Mr. Robot is reforging me out of spirit (not much but some)...so basically my question to you is that your guide says until you feel comfortable...how does Mr. Robot decide when spirit is enough?

Hi there,

First, to your question: I don't know exactly how AMR decides what's "comfortable", but it may be using a hangover from Cata and calculating the amount of Spirit you need to chain cast unbuffed Healing Wave and just reforging to that. This is not a recommended strategy, in my opinion.

**now some elaboration which you may find useful**

Resto Shaman are a thorny issue for everyone really, it's extremely hard to assess stats for them (this I know from my own experience). The stat order they quote is reasonable based on *Cata* experience, but I wonder if they have seriously assessed it yet.

My opinion (and there is some evidence to back it) is that these priorities are not good ones. However, the "correct" version depends on a huge number of factors, including what your raid size is.

In GENERAL, Haste isn't a very useful stat because it doesn't add mana efficiency. Spirit is huge for Shaman at the moment because of the new regen model. My personal preference is to stack as much of it as I can. Good advice is generally; when you can get MORE Spirit than Intellect from something (i.e. gems), go for Spirit. When you get the same amount (i.e. Flasks/Food) take Intellect.

Mastery is absolutely the number one priority for progression. Crit comes second only because of the RNG. As a rule of thumb, 50% (total) Mastery is the place to aim for. Any more and you start to sacrifice a lot of healing through losing out on Crit rating. Crit is **excellent** because it is both throughput and regen increasing. It's generally better in 10's than 25's due to the higher proportion of single-target heals.

I would rank Haste lowest for 10's, and place some importance on getting the Earthliving breakpoint (12.5%) for 25's.

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Thanks for the quick response and your **now some elaboration which you may find useful** was very useful...I will be changing some of my reforging. Thanks for the great info!

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Been doing some research and apparently the haste softcap that you guys is say is supposed to be 873 (having ancestran switness, with +5% haste buff and not being a goblin), in reality actually is 871 according to mmo-champ resto guide ( http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1174656-Restoration-Guide-to-MoP) and elitist jerks ( http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t130574-resto_raid_healing_5_05_mop/) and also according to totemspot's blinkeinstain breakpoint tables (http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=41)

You might want to fix it :P

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Guest trudatronix -uldaman

spirit >crit >mastery >haste

works great

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spirit >crit >mastery >haste

works great

Gonna need a bit more explanation than that.

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well I need more details than that..how much spirit, crit, mastery, and haste

On reflection, I don't think that the post you replied to was intended to be very helpful. Ignore it until there's a better explanation available for what exactly he said.

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Since I always use this website as a reference, I just want to point out one of my observation.

At this point in time (MV and early HoF raids), many of the "top" (log-wise) resto shamans are gemming for Spirit > Int. In addition, they all use Revitalizing Primal Diamond over the recommended Burning Primal Diamond. This is probably because at this gear level, mana regeneration is the biggest problem right now. Also, keep in mind that Int no longer affects mana pool, so your mana will remain static at 300k. I am sure this will turnaround to Int > Spirit until comfortable in a couple of tiers.

Indeed. Thank you for pointing this out! I changed the stat priority and the gem section accordingly :)

As it is a fix value in the healing rotation, i think, you should add the HST to it instead of "just" mentioning it in the CD Section.

Mutterkorn has a point; HST is regularly top on my healing done and is absolutely invaluable when there's spread raid damage (see most Stone Guard fights). Using HST on cooldown is an important thing to do in order to start optimizing.

There are cleverer ways of using it, but those are situational and difficult to explain (hence I don't recommend you go into full detail in the guide), but high uptime is always imperative and you would improve the guide by clearly stating that.

There's the 20% Haste Breakpoint missing in the Haste section.

According to other guides (like http://elitistjerks....5_05_mop/#Haste), there is en extra Tick in HST and HTT at 20% Haste or 3764 Haste Rating (3306 for Goblins). I think, this should be added even if this seems to be bugged at the moment.

EDIT: So, as Stoove said, it is like Dire Beast, the closer you get to the supposed "cap", the higher your chance to get an extra tick. So there is no real cap, (there's no perceptible difference between being at the cap or 1 Haste Rating below it), and I will not mention it in the guide.

Also, I added Healing Stream Totem to the rotation and removed it from the cooldown section ;)

Been doing some research and apparently the haste softcap that you guys is say is supposed to be 873 (having ancestran switness, with +5% haste buff and not being a goblin), in reality actually is 871 according to mmo-champ resto guide ( http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1174656-Restoration-Guide-to-MoP) and elitist jerks ( http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t130574-resto_raid_healing_5_05_mop/) and also according to totemspot's blinkeinstain breakpoint tables (http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=41)

You might want to fix it :P

I noticed your Haste Breakpoint chart is slightly out of date. Here is an updated chart with all the haste breakpoints needed to hit (Credit to Elitist Jerks)

[Table removed - Stoove]

Please note the spells highlighted in red, there is other times when they will gain an extra tick of heal in-between the normal spots above, but have not yet been 100% identified yet and are almost at random.

The charts were not out of date. They were simply wrong, often 2 or 3 Haste Rating too high. This comes from the script I made for myself to generate these charts. It contained an error that I fixed a long time ago, but I never re-generated the Restoration Shaman charts.

Thank you for reporting the issue. The charts have been modified with the proper values. Feel free to check them against your other sources :)

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