Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
zat

Tanking in the real world

Recommended Posts

So I follow your guides religiously. You are always right, but, then there is the real world.

In the real world there are players at a variety of skill levels, gear levels and attention spans.

In all your tanking guides you state that hit and expertise are the weakest stats. That threat mechanics are such that stacking these is entirely unnecessary, and in a disciplined, skilled raid team this is quite true.

Then there is the PUG

There are hunters that don't misdirect, have pets on growl, an immolate trap at the bosses feet and an arrow in the air as you run in.

Priests don't pre-fade - They don't fade at all.

You know the rogue is going to cheap-shot that caster mob just after you silence him to pull him in.

And that typhoon .....

And it goes on.

In these very common occurances, hit and expertise aren't dps stats, they aren't threat stats. They are survival stats. When one of these things happen, if you miss, you miss out on heals. Those 3 flash heals that just hit the hunter are 60k healing you aren't getting. No stat weighting will replace that. And if you have to run over to bash the offending mob, and show your back to the other 8 ......

So mb in your general tanking guide, there could be some mention of the pug. I think your material is being read by exactly the people who need help in this area, as well as by pro raiders.

Thanks again for all your work

You make our wow lives easy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since 5.0.4 dropped, I think stat priority is a little in flux for all builds, hit and expertise may very well have a higher priority now. Previous to 5.0.4 though those stats were very low priority because of how easy it was for a tank to out aggro dps. As far as PUG's go I would not recommend changing stat priorities for PUG's. DPS also have to be cognizant of aggro and if they are pre-pulling before the tank is ready then my suggestion is to let them eat the floor a few times till they learn. (This can still be done in a pleasant and constructive way, just inform them nicely of their mistake and to please allow the tank time to grab aggro initially)

The few rare times you miss on the initial pull can be offset with a quick taunt. You can then proceed on your normal aggro/survival rotation.

Also note that all stats priorities are for all classes are based around raiding parameters. If you are looking for stat priorities for dungeons just keep in mind that hit and expertise values will be lower due to mob level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since 5.0.4 dropped, I think stat priority is a little in flux for all builds, hit and expertise may very well have a higher priority now. Previous to 5.0.4 though those stats were very low priority because of how easy it was for a tank to out aggro dps. As far as PUG's go I would not recommend changing stat priorities for PUG's. DPS also have to be cognizant of aggro and if they are pre-pulling before the tank is ready then my suggestion is to let them eat the floor a few times till they learn. (This can still be done in a pleasant and constructive way, just inform them nicely of their mistake and to please allow the tank time to grab aggro initially)

The few rare times you miss on the initial pull can be offset with a quick taunt. You can then proceed on your normal aggro/survival rotation.

Also note that all stats priorities are for all classes are based around raiding parameters. If you are looking for stat priorities for dungeons just keep in mind that hit and expertise values will be lower due to mob level.

I mostly agree with this. If you pull, you tank. That's been my tanking motto for the longest time.

What I don't necessarily agree with is putting exp and hit higher on the list than before. That is very easy to understand if you see this log of our Dragon Soul raid last night. This is a quick picture of the Ultraxion 25 heroic kill. The logs say it's 10M normal, but that's because the logging program is a bit broken.

Posted Image

At first this might look pretty normal, until I tell you that Monkeyshine is our main tank in this raid. Due to the removal of the cap on spell_shadow_charm.jpgVengeance, tanks can get some pretty insane attack power. I remember them yelling numbers of over 120K extra attack power on Madness for example. The damage tanks can do is absolutely ridiculous and overaggroing is almost impossible. Even when the off-tank taunts, pops all his offensive cooldowns, spells and abilities, one normal hit by the main tank would get him back on top.

I see how this doesn't really help a lot at the pull, but I feel that what Vladamyr said is absolutely correct there. A taunt works wonders and if you still have problems you can always ask nicely or let them learn the hard way.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, you are obviously both right ..... I just don't like it when ppl die. Somehow I feel insulted by it, even if they rode to the instance on the short bus. Ty for your replies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...There are hunters that don't misdirect, have pets on growl, an immolate trap at the bosses feet and an arrow in the air as you run in.

Priests don't pre-fade - They don't fade at all.

You know the rogue is going to cheap-shot that caster mob just after you silence him to pull him in.

And that typhoon .....

And it goes on...

Well, you are obviously both right ..... I just don't like it when ppl die. Somehow I feel insulted by it, even if they rode to the instance on the short bus. Ty for your replies

Mate, you answered your question your self. It is not your fault that hunter pull before you do, it is not your fault that rogues dont use tricks and open with cheap shoot, it is not your fault if freshly spawned mob goes for healer (it is default game mechanic, freshly spawned mob, if not taunted, will always go for healer first).

There are lots of errors that you said, which are not yours, but PUGs. As tank/healer i understand you.. and this is best possible advice that i can give you..

Whenever you enter PUG.. by default presume that all members in it are slackers and will prolly get in a way of your tanking. OFC, it is not the case, but it will help you focus 100% on tanking that needs to be done.

Dont let it hit you so hard when someone die, ofc, there is no tank that is ok with seeing how someone in his party dies... but analyze the fight and see whos wrong, it is not ALWAYS your fault, as a tank..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Lizard
      Hello there!
      It is my vision on build Yrel for quick matches and non-high (diamond/ml/gml) league.
      Wanna show it, because I disagree with guide, what is presented here. Guide https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/yrel-build-guide maybe good, but it designed not for casual players.
      Following this guide, you'll pretty good brusher-tank (Yrel have 2679 HP right now on level 1, only 8 characters in game have more HP), with super-mobility and good damage after 16 lvl. Our specialisation - defend objectives on map. Noone in this game now can't do it better, then Yrel.
      My prefer talent build is: 2, 2, 3, 2, 1, 3, 4.
      Another form: Dauntless, Gift of the Naaru, Divine Steed, Sacred Ground, Aldor Peacekeeper, Holy Wrath, Seraphim.
      Also, if you have a good tank, and all what you team need is damage, or if we on bad map to us (see below) : 1, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1/4.
      Another form: Light of Karabor, Hand of Freedom, Holy Avenger, Ardent Defender, Repentance, Holy Wrath, Word of Glory/Seraphim.
      Our playstyle: do a simple brusher work, before get level 4, or start ivent on map. After level 4, try be near our teammates, for get maximum profit from Gift of the Naaru, but without fanatism 😄. After level 7, you can soak exp from 2 lines with Divine Steed, try get more exp to team (again, without fanatism, on largest maps like warhead juction it will be dumb). When your team get ultimates, start playing more aggresively.
      Mid game: defend targets, defend teams, kill everything what moving (and what doesn't moving - move it and kill! 😄) with help some assassin in your team. Help to push and get camps. After level 16, when you pick Holy Wrath, you may get camp solo, and it will be fast (before 16 lvl, you also can do it, but it will too long - waste of time and mana).
      Late game: PUSH PUSH PUSH PUSH PUSH PUSH! You have all things to win. Just win teamfight (be prepared), get camps and go to core. Not in our plans play in deep late (but we can!), then just finish game.
      More about talents:
      In first tier (1 lvl), Dauntless give 50% kinetic armor for 2.5 sec - is too many to be skiped, any autoattack assassin will be hate you, but if opponents haven't autoattack assassin, pick Light of Karabor for synergy with 13'th level talent (Aldor Peacekeeper) and still have good sustain.  Maraad's Insight deal smallest profit in late game, and most games will be long, because we're in game 😎. 
      Second tier (4 lvl), Gift of the Naaru give to you free (!) healing to teammate on 7 sec cooldown (!!!), what can help to survive low-hp teammate, and he can escape, but if you trust in your healer, you can pick Hand of Freedom. Aegis of Light just doesn't work - we initiate fights, or follow opponent, or run away. No useful case to team.
      Third tier (7 lvl) - all talents can be used, but I prefer Divine Steed, because it is + mobility (fast soak exp on 2 lines, complete it and go to objective on map, for example), +1 option to escape, +1 option to following low-hp opponent to kill him (especially after 16lvl). If you not like it, or wanna deal more damage, you can pick Holy Avenger for combo like a D+E+Full-E. Righteous Momentum, truthly, can be picked only in full-party, when your team need more ground control. I don't see any other cases for it, but talent still can be picked.
      Ultimate (10 lvl) - always Sacred Ground, exeptly maps, where you absolutely doesn't need defend objective, or if you already have good tank with zoning option. 45 sec cd is so small, what sometimes it can be ready when your Sacred Ground still active. 😄
      Ardent Defender we can pick, when we have a good tank, who know what he need to do. Usually, you get it before level 10. It's best save ability in game, also 120 sec cd is not so long, but we do less profit to team then what we can do with Sacred Ground.
      Fifth tier (13 lvl) - all talents are teoritly playable, but I prefer Aldor Peacekeeper, because it's good combo: instant Divine Purpose + Vindication, you got heal and kinetic shield, heal teammate, and you can tank 'cuz -25% damage for all sources near you, and under Sacred Ground you will be unbreakable, especially if you chosen Light of Karabor in tier 1. Repentance you can pick when Holy Avenger already picked in third tier - more control is more control. 😄 Also wanna clarify, what Velen's Chosen minorly upgrade damage, and have less profit then Aldor Peacekeeper and Repentance.
      Sixth tier (16 lvl) - always Holy Wrath, because it greatly increase our damage. From this moment, you will be a great threat to opponents, and they'll try to kill you, switching damage in you first, but they can't kill you 😄 (R+D+Q). Templar's Verdict, theoretically, can be use in well-played team to increase team damage and target kills, but for ultimate benefit of this talent, I repeat, we need at least 2 teammate with good fast switch in priority target for fast kill.
      Seventh tier (20 lvl) - depends of talent in fourth tier (Ultimate). If Ardent Defender picked - upgrade it (Word of Glory), exept if you have good aoe healer (like a morales/alextraza/brightwing/etc.). If Sacred Ground - pick Seraphim. Active ability,  every 10 seconds (!) deal 2 sec unstoppable - it's always full charged basic ability, what cannot be interrupted for blinding/stun/sleep/etc., also it's another option to escape.
      Upgrading Sacred Ground with Hallowed Ground - useless, because if you used it - stay here to death, but give time to escape to your teammates, in other cases you win teamfight ever, becuase on level 20 and higher, most teamfights end with death 3-5 ppl in team.
      Bubble Hearth - garbadge, if you wanna win. Ultimate escape, but if you find yourself in a situation, where you want to press this ability, your team will lose teamfight, and then - that game. 
      Leaving your team in the minority is not the way of true light protectors!
      Our stronger maps: Braxis Holdout, Cursed Hollow, Infernal Shrines, Sky Temple, Warhead Junction, Volskaya Foundry.
      Our weaker maps: Tomb of the Spider Queen, Battlefield of Eternity, Blackheart's Bay (?).
      Our nightmare: Johanna, Garrosh, Malthael, Rexxar.
      Tips: 
      Avoid downtime Divine Purpose! If you're not in fight, heal yourself instantly with Divine Purpose + Vindication, it cost no mana, and also you help to your healer (especially with Gift of the Naaru). If you pick Holy Avenger, start full-prepared Avenging Wrath without Divine Purpose, for combining it after first use. You start fight, and keep your damage strong full time in duel. It is good idea to use full-prepared Avenging Wrath in backline opponent team to help your assassins kill prefer target with Divine Purpose + Righteous Hammer, or separate and destract them healer. When you use Avenging Wrath just deal damage, don't wait full charge - it spell have a fixed damage, and charging in this situation is waste of time and damage from autoattack. Will be glad to any responce!
      Thanks for reading!
      See you in Nexus!
    • By Tessivento
      Hi all.
      I recently went Guardian from Resto. Theoretically I know my rotation, cd, etc. I'm running Antorus HC, i got the curve and i think to hold with not many problems every boss but seeing my logs my performance is always low.

      I don't know where I make my mistakes but I think to have these issues:
      My damage taken is always minor than other tanks; My damage dealt... same (I build my bear full defense but my dps seems to be too low); Sometimes i have threat problem (especially with paladins or warrior); I should selfheal more but i don't see the need when I am full: i prefer to stack ironfur. What can i do to improve?

      If you wanna see my armor, look here.
      I don't aim to shine, but, at least, be on a average rank :p
       
      Thank you all
    • By BrightwingMain
      Just throwing this shower thought out there because why not.
      Would it be possible with reasonable amount of resources and time that you have available, to create couple of generic general gameplay/map guides for Heroes of the Storm? There are already a couple for other games, although mostly pretty old ones. Things like general guidelines for tanking, healing and stutter stepping as well as map guides of what heroes are which priority and how the maps play out? You already have some maps covered at the "map specific advice", but as the "new hero guide format" cuts the map specific advice part off, would adding such thing be possible. Not that I would be desperately in need of one, but if I had to guess, a lot of people would be glad to get them available.
    • By zmandude24
      Since shield block doesn't do donkey dick for most of the tank buster mechanics and the boss auto attacks hit like a wet noodle, is it even worth gearing haste at all? Wouldn't I be better off going for only mastery/versatility?
    • By dastardlyfi
      I have now, 4 trinkets that I am conflicted on using as they all seem to have decent stats and usages/passives. I am mainly tanking mythic dungeons, although our guild does normal EN but I have no problem there.
       
      What do you think would be the best 2 to use in general?
       
      I have the following:
      http://www.wowhead.com/item=137538&bonus=1507:3412
      http://www.wowhead.com/item=137344&bonus=1502:3412
      http://www.wowhead.com/item=137338&bonus=1507:3412
      Goblet of Nightmarish Ichor
       
      What do y'all think?
×
×
  • Create New...