WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[gahhda 95]

I set out to prove that demo was so bad that a holy priest could beat it. Turns out I might have just proven that holy is stealth op. Either way...enjoy:

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qxyMcBY4awtLQVAj/#type=damage-done&source=4&graph=true&by=source

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RyTrpqa6g2P9M4vJ#type=damage-done&graph=true

[Desos 18]

I calm myself with the fact that most other classes got some downscaling too.

 

Edit: I looked through Gahhda´s logs and... pretty disappointed that I can´t play demo in WoD if Blizzard is going to follow that road.

Edited September 3, 2014 by check0790

[Zagam 1,983]

There is a LOT of noise from a lot of prestigious raiders saying the nerf was over done.  With all reason and logic behind us, I would anticipate smaller buffs going forward as they fine tune.  The latest nerf/buff wave had some larger swings to it that would indicate we're still a few iterations away from the final release.  I'm an advocate of wait out the thunderstorm for some sun - unfortunately, it's looking like we're headed for mostly cloudy instead of mostly sunny. 

 

Also, remember that the REAL testing comes during 6.0 when they collect buckets and truckloads of data from everyone instead of those in the beta.  When they push out specs in 6.0, that's when we'll take our new models into SoO, which should be VERY familiar at this point, and relearn your new spec.  6.0.2 PTR is coming out soon so we'll have a vehicle to test new stuff. 

[Cirous 2]

It makes people happier when the last balancing act is buffing. Therefore they had to make major nerf now so they can do some buffing before release and make everyone happy. :>

[Liquidsteel 279]

They still haven't fixed Wild Imps basically going /afk as soon as they spawn. That should add some damage and fury generation back in to the mix.

 

I'm waiting til the next build before passing judgement.

[Astynax 24]

Warlock (Forums, Talent Calculator)

• Corruption (Demonology) Metamorphosis transforms this spell into Doom: Doom Inflicts impending doom upon the target, causing [ 4 + 150% 120% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage over 60 sec.
• Corruption (Demonology) Metamorphosis transforms this spell into Doom: Doom Inflicts impending doom upon the target, causing [ 4 + 150% 120% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage over 60 sec.
• Corruption (Demonology) Metamorphosis transforms this spell into Doom: Doom Inflicts impending doom upon the target, causing [ 4 + 150% 120% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage over 60 sec.
• Shadow Bolt (Affliction, Destruction) Sends a shadowy bolt at the enemy, causing [ 1 + 124.2% 74% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage.
• Shadow Bolt (Demonology) Sends a shadowy bolt at the enemy, causing [ 1 + 124.2% 74% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage and generating 25 Demonic Fury. Metamorphosis transforms this spell into Touch of Chaos: Touch of Chaos Unleashes energy at the enemy, causing [ 1 + 69.03% 40% of Spell Power ] Chaos damage and extending the duration of Corruption.

Talents

• Demonbolt Launch of ball of demonic energy at the target, dealing [ 1 + 250% 150% of Spell Power ] Chaos damage. Each Demonbolt amplifies further Demonbolts, increasing damage by 20% and cost by 100% for 60 sec (reduced by Haste), stacking up to 10 times. Requires Metamorphosis. Warlock - LvL 0 Talent. 80 Demonic Fury. 40 yd range. 2 sec cast.

Affliction

• Haunt A ghostly soul haunts the target, dealing [ 1 + 375% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage and increasing damage over time you deal to the target by 35% 30%for 8 sec. Warlock - Affliction Spec. 1 Soul Shard. 40 yd range. 1.5 sec cast.

Demonology

• Hand of Gul'dan (Affliction, Destruction) Strikes the target and all enemies within 6 yards for [ 86% [ 68.8% of Spell Power ] instant Shadowflame damage and an additional [ 22.5% [ 18% of Spell Power ] Shadowflame damage and 12 Demonic Fury over 6 sec.
• Hand of Gul'dan (Demonology) Strikes the target and all enemies within 6 yards for [ 86% [ 68.8% of Spell Power ] instant Shadowflame damage and an additional [ 22.5% [ 18% of Spell Power ] Shadowflame damage and 12 Demonic Fury over 6 sec. Metamorphosis transforms this spell into Chaos Wave: Chaos Wave Hurls a wave of chaos to strike the target and all enemies within 6 yards, dealing [ 131.28% [ 105% of Spell Power ] Chaos damage and reducing movement speed by 50% for 6 sec.
• Soul Fire (Affliction, Destruction) Burn the enemy's soul, causing [ 1 + 42.5% 34% of Spell Power ] Fire damage.
• Soul Fire (Demonology) Burn the enemy's soul, causing [ 1 + 42.5% 34% of Spell Power ] Fire damage and generating 30 Demonic Fury.

Soooo... wait... am I reading this wrong, or are they giving shadow bolt back to aff and destro warlocks?? And threw in a free HoG?? wat?

[juribe 1]

 

Soooo... wait... am I reading this wrong, or are they giving shadow bolt back to aff and destro warlocks?? And threw in a free HoG?? wat?

 

 

 

nah that's just how datamining looks, nothing new has been added

Edited September 3, 2014 by juribe

[Zagam 1,983]

Everyone has Shadow Bolt initially.  For Aff, it becomes Malefic Grasp.  For Dest, it becomes Incinerate.  It just datamines all inclusive.

[Astynax 24]

nah that's just how datamining looks, nothing new has been added

 

 

Everyone has Shadow Bolt initially.  For Aff, it becomes Malefic Grasp.  For Dest, it becomes Incinerate.  It just datamines all inclusive.

Alright. Cool. IK shadowbolt "became" whatever, but I didn't realize it was just the way datamined stuff showed up. So, base nerf to filler spells in general then? That sounds.... warrented.

[Soulzar 42]

The only thing that worries me are these DMG passes before they address core bugs like AFK Imps that have a significant impact on the specs dmg potential.

[Zagam 1,983]

AFK Imps won't go live.  If it does, I'll legitimately consider unsubbing and retiring from WoW because it'll show a complete lack of pushing a quality product out.  It also would show they completely ignore the voices they say they want to hear.

[gahhda 95]

AFK Imps won't go live.  If it does, I'll legitimately consider unsubbing and retiring from WoW because it'll show a complete lack of pushing a quality product out.  It also would show they completely ignore the voices they say they want to hear.

 

Pets are still doing 50% more damage than before for no reason. You'd think they might commenting such a thing before nerfing demo into the ground.

[Zagam 1,983]

Pets are still doing 50% more damage than before for no reason. You'd think they might commenting such a thing before nerfing demo into the ground.

I doubt they'd comment that they're actually wrong or made a mistake.  They must have a cast sequence macro...

 

/ignore

/ignore

/ignore

/nerf

/shittybuff

/launch

 

It's depressing that they give us the beta and then ignore our words of wisdom.  No admission that they're working on issues or anything - just sweeping nerfs to counter the effects so they can buff it later.  Puts dents in time we can spend analyzing DPS to give valuable contributions.

[Alphric 7]

I'm going to be upset going from 1st-2nd dps to like 20-23rd....literally, what the fuck. I guess someone said, "well in mop locks were good at raid utility and dps, do in wod we figured they'd be good at neither." Seriously? Mages are still top and they've got the fucking raid heal thing. But our cookies have to give a set amount instead of a percent, only one per fight AND share a cd with potions. Bro. Come on bro.

[Alphric 7]

And down in Azeroth, some who's say, warlocks took an unlubed nerf bat to the anus, which as a result grew three sizes that day.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Alphric

[Liquidsteel 279]

Is that a Grinch reference?

[Alphric 7]

Yes, yes it is :p

[gahhda 95]

I doubt they'd comment that they're actually wrong or made a mistake.  They must have a cast sequence macro...

 

/ignore

/ignore

/ignore

/nerf

/shittybuff

/launch

 

It's depressing that they give us the beta and then ignore our words of wisdom.  No admission that they're working on issues or anything - just sweeping nerfs to counter the effects so they can buff it later.  Puts dents in time we can spend analyzing DPS to give valuable contributions.

 

I'm posting empirical math for destruction in about an hour. Then I'll do affliction. And hopefully, by then, celestalon will realize that he was completely wrong about everything and fix his fucking mistake.

[Alphric 7]

did you empirical demo math too? or nah. cuz demos the jam. 

also. prove dem bitches wrong.

[gahhda 95]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13841994636?page=3#50

 

Someone proof-read that to make sure I didn't say some dumbass shit.

[Desos 18]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13841994636?page=3#50

 

Someone proof-read that to make sure I didn't say some dumbass shit.

Looks solid. Nice work. 

One of my favourite parts is the dps-neutrality of GoSac, which is completely against the design intentions of talents.

The other one is the part about mana. For example I never understood why one would want RoF to cost so much mana if there are better ways already implemented to limit its effectiveness ... like damage scaling, duration, (not) overlapping and ember generation.

[gahhda 95]

They, historically, have done idiotic things to balance destruction.

 

RoF, instead of tuning the damage back, was instead given a 12.5% chance to generate 2 embers on hit.

Fel flame was nerfed by LITERALLY DOUBLING THE MANA COST. Any sane person would have nerfed the damage, not the mana. It wasn't even nerfed for destro, it got nerfed because demo was using it over shadow bolt, BECAUSE THEY BUFFED THE DAMAGE. The only reason it isn't used as demo right now on live is because you lose GCDs from spending so much mana on fel flame and subsequently having to life tap.

Edited September 5, 2014 by gahhda

[Zagam 1,983]

I really, really don't enjoy that their iterations are successive and not cumulative.  As a process-oriented engineer, I always record my iterations and move back to one if something gets screwed up majorly.  The way you mention Fel Flame's history gives me a heart ache because instead of just reverting the damage after they overbuffed it, they changed something else which then changed something else.  Just go back to a previous version and alter something differently.

 

Also, Celest saying he doesn't know why everyone else is seeing lower numbers out of Demonology than they are is just a bunch of horseshit.  There's no way that anyone at Blizzard knows how to play it better than the majority of elite players.  Icing on the cake is them not showing what they're seeing.  Communication never works properly when only one channel is open.

[juribe 1]

The silver lining here, of course, is that they're admitting that there's a gap between what they're seeing internally (whether this is them doing game-testing or spreadsheet theorycrafting) and what everyone else is seeing on Beta. Hopefully this means some buffs for Demo, because right now it's only viable if you're trying to beat tanks in damage.

 

Luckily, Affliction still seems pretty strong.

Edited September 5, 2014 by juribe

[Zagam 1,983]

The reason I play a Warlock (and likely others) is to be a pure DPS.  I'm not a Paladin where my only role is to smash shit with divine purpose and retribution.  I enjoy being a DPS with 3 different flavors and styles that can adapt to fights in their own way.  Even during the glory days of UVLS Demo in ToT, we still went Destruction for Primordius progression because of how amazing MF was with FnB and RoF and we went Affliction (some of us) on Megaera or Elders because of multi-dotting mechanics.  It's nice to expect our performances to be close but be able to change specs for certain fights based on fight parameters.  The reason this Demo nerf irks me is that it literally has no niche at all now.  I'm most happy when all three specs have at least 1 or 2 encounters where they are better than the other two.