WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[Soulzar 42]

I still hate DemonBolt.  When it crits it feels great, when it doesn't it feels like I'm flushing fury down the drain.  Demonbolt IMO needs to be like Chaos Bolt and Soul Fire and always crit. Adjust its dmg/scaling accordingly.

 

Feels odd to play Charred Remains Destro and have every other spell be a ~70k Chaos Bolt, then spec into Demo and have Demon Bolt hit for 30k with a stupid 1min debuff

 

At least our Imps are working again.

[Zagam 1,983]

The fact they nerfed it from 250% to 150% scaling makes me believe they will put in an auto-crit function.  That would make sense, at least.

[juribe 1]

The reason I play a Warlock (and likely others) is to be a pure DPS.  I'm not a Paladin where my only role is to smash shit with divine purpose and retribution.  I enjoy being a DPS with 3 different flavors and styles that can adapt to fights in their own way.  Even during the glory days of UVLS Demo in ToT, we still went Destruction for Primordius progression because of how amazing MF was with FnB and RoF and we went Affliction (some of us) on Megaera or Elders because of multi-dotting mechanics.  It's nice to expect our performances to be close but be able to change specs for certain fights based on fight parameters.  The reason this Demo nerf irks me is that it literally has no niche at all now.  I'm most happy when all three specs have at least 1 or 2 encounters where they are better than the other two.

 

Completely agree, if we are only going to have one viable spec for DPS I might as well play a warrior or druid or some other hybrid so I can expand in that way. If Affliction is the only thing viable, that's not going to be a fun raid tier at all, despite the encounter design so far being very good.

[Twinkielock 15]

Carry the pitchforks and torches to Blizzcon!

[Soulzar 42]

Yeah, as much as I love my Warlock I have always had a bit of Hybrid Envy with them being able to jump into completely different roles on their main, something I need to go to a less geared alt for.   I feel left out when I cant bid Off Off Spec on tier tokens!

[Zagam 1,983]

I've got every class to 90.  I'll be the last Warlock to jump ship, but if Warlocks bring little utility (Sorry, Celest, raid strats are NOT devised around Gateways, it's the other way around) and are not Tier 1 DPS, there will be little justification to my group having 3 (me, Locky, Kaz), so I'll likely be the one that pops to a more well-rounded class.  I doubt they'll let Warlocks suffer, but I've got my emergency kit prepared.

[Soulzar 42]

Our raid will have 4 locks.... at least we have as many Warriors so they can carry the deeps :D

[Sifon 25]

All guilds have more than enough warlocks at the moment, lots rerolled to warlock in MoP and giving a total overhoul with new mechanics, a class specific quest chain and giving enough tools to be competitive on every single boss attracted many. My current guild has 4-5 active warlocks and I doubt any mythic guild would want more than 2 in current situation.

[gahhda 95]

Haven't been on twitter since celestalon's response was #lolrekt. Did he actually say warlocks were much higher in their testing? or are you guys just referencing his response to me?

[Zagam 1,983]

No, there was something on MMO this morning that said he's heard that Demo is much lower than where they see it.  That was what I was referencing.  It's like they collectively have heard that their numbers are different but won't disclose why.  They act like they're protecting the damn nuclear codes.

[gahhda 95]

No, there was something on MMO this morning that said he's heard that Demo is much lower than where they see it.  That was what I was referencing.  It's like they collectively have heard that their numbers are different but won't disclose why.  They act like they're protecting the damn nuclear codes.

 

Cool, maybe i don't need to post logs of me doing less dps than a holy priest to prove celestalon is a fucktard after all.

[Soulzar 42]

1.  

   Nathan Kilker ‏@Zinnin Sep 4

   @celestalon when I log in after being told buffs / nerfs are good and one of my specs completely outclasses the other, I get sad / angry

    

   Celestalon ‏@Celestalon Sep 4

   @Zinnin Tuning is iterative. I hear from the community that they're seeing Demo doing way less than we are internally. Trying to find why.

1. Xyronic ‏@Xyroniclol Sep 4

   @Celestalon @Zinnin Did you try turning godmode off?

    

   Nathan Kilker‏@Zinnin Sep 4

   @Xyroniclol @Celestalon 'Celestial' Mode

 

Edited September 5, 2014 by Soulzar

[gahhda 95]

 

1.  

   Nathan Kilker ‏@Zinnin Sep 4

   @celestalon when I log in after being told buffs / nerfs are good and one of my specs completely outclasses the other, I get sad / angry

    

   Celestalon ‏@Celestalon Sep 4

   @Zinnin Tuning is iterative. I hear from the community that they're seeing Demo doing way less than we are internally. Trying to find why.

1. Xyronic ‏@Xyroniclol Sep 4

   @Celestalon @Zinnin Did you try turning godmode off?

    

   Nathan Kilker‏@Zinnin Sep 4

   @Xyroniclol @Celestalon 'Celestial' Mode

 

 

 

This is why I enjoy talking to zinnin, fucking hilarious.

[Alphric 7]

They took demo which could do good dps and tank. Then they nerfed tank damage. Then they made demo do tank damage. And then they made demo untankable. Give me dps or tank, not neither.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Alphric

[Alphric 7]

...so this was said...

"Warlock (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)

Demo just lost 33% dps. Surely in no magical fairy land could anyone ever think that demo is overperforming by 33%.

It was. (Celestalon)"

[Desos 18]

I don´t want to rant but when I read something like this, it´s just not possible. Okay, most classes also got nerfs(except for maybe ferals and hunters, who got some kind of tweaks), but in the range of like 10-20% on maybe one or two abilities and not like in demo´s case on most of one´s toolkit abilities.

Maybe they´re running their tests with fel imps not auto /afk-ing on spawn. But why in hell wouldn´t they want us to know this or atleast provide a build with a bugfix.

They´re holding back information respectively work a number of builds ahead and then act like a know-it-all. The icing on the cake is their wondering, why there is such a toxic atmosphere in their forums, when they act like that.

[Zagam 1,983]

Who misses Ghostcrawler now?  He felt like a major dickbutt before, but he sure as hell treated the community better than this doofus.

[Eddie 16]

It is sad that the man who called everyone that played Demo in ToT an exploiter was a better option than his replacement.

[Zagam 1,983]

It's not obligatory hate - this is his first expansion where he's dealing with masses of criers, whiners, bitchers, and complainers.  I get that he wants to give it back to the people making his life miserable, but he's got a job to do and that's to maintain the best line of communication with the community.  His responses show very little effort, to me at least.

 

I'm not forcing Kaz or Locky to change - I'm pretty flexible with all classes and can min/max anything.  Just haven't decided what to do yet.  As a raid leader, simple classes do well - it's why I've stayed Destruction on most fights whereas I'd love to be Demo or Affliction - they just require too much attention to do as well as Destruction.  I can't really be a melee, so it MIGHT be Spriest or Mage since we're missing both.  We'll see what kinda recruits we get before I make my decision.  Regardless, this is my last expansion of WoW with my current life plan.  Just gotta do something that makes it fun.

[Desos 18]

It is sad that the man who called everyone that played Demo in ToT an exploiter was a better option than his replacement.

 

He had a point with UVoLS being overpowered and demo got its wings clipped consequently, but it was not anything like this nerf-fest. Also Celestalon needs to take Communication 101.

[Astynax 24]

It's not obligatory hate - this is his first expansion where he's dealing with masses of criers, whiners, bitchers, and complainers.  I get that he wants to give it back to the people making his life miserable, but he's got a job to do and that's to maintain the best line of communication with the community.  His responses show very little effort, to me at least.

 

I'm not forcing Kaz or Locky to change - I'm pretty flexible with all classes and can min/max anything.  Just haven't decided what to do yet.  As a raid leader, simple classes do well - it's why I've stayed Destruction on most fights whereas I'd love to be Demo or Affliction - they just require too much attention to do as well as Destruction.  I can't really be a melee, so it MIGHT be Spriest or Mage since we're missing both.  We'll see what kinda recruits we get before I make my decision.  Regardless, this is my last expansion of WoW with my current life plan.  Just gotta do something that makes it fun.

No, no, I didn't mean to imply at all that any of the flak on these forums was unwarranted. I know the majority of voices on this forum well enough to know that if you guys are saying it, it's probably got some merit to it. I realize that the intelligent voices are not the only ones he has to listen to either. I didn't mean in any way to imply that I disagree with you guys, because we're cumulatively the most informed community of warlocks out there, and we're sitting here confused about what the fuck blizz is throwing together and why. He's not responding in a way that's good for the community, and I wholly respect that. I was just being facetious.

Sad to hear that we're losing you Zag.... =( But I guess that's off topic. I was just noting that last I saw, Kazi was raiding you guys with his drood, out of want to. I assumed you'd want to stick with your beloved twisted warlock, but that's just out of guessing, I suppose. I guess it's also different as a Raid lead too. I've never had the honor, but now that you mention it, I see what you're talking about.

[Astynax 24]

He had a point with UVoLS being overpowered and demo got its wings clipped consequently, but it was not anything like this nerf-fest. Also Celestalon needs to take Communication 101.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Butthurt-ted-ness came from the fact that Sparkuggz, Zag, EVERY FUCKING GOOD WARLOCK ON THE DAMNED BETA told Blizz explicitedly "Do not let this proc go live. It will be ridiculously overpowered, and break the entire spec because it's way too good." And they changed it absolutely none whatsoever..... But I wasn't around at the time, so it's possible I'm wrong.

[Zagam 1,983]

I assumed you'd want to stick with your beloved twisted warlock, but that's just out of guessing, I suppose. I guess it's also different as a Raid lead too. I've never had the honor, but now that you mention it, I see what you're talking about.

Class doesn't really matter to me - I enjoy my Warlock a lot.  Truth be told, the only reason I started playing one was because it was the least represented and the most difficult to master, based on a couple of websites I read before starting to play.  I just kinda stuck with it while playing other classes to high levels.  I play WoW more for the people I play with, not the class I'm using.  It really doesn't matter to me what class I use to bring mob HP levels down.  They're all pretty close anyways - keep a DoT up here, keep a buff up here, use this when it's shiny, and use this otherwise. 

 

Unless I'm mistaken, the Butthurt-ted-ness came from the fact that Sparkuggz, Zag, EVERY FUCKING GOOD WARLOCK ON THE DAMNED BETA told Blizz explicitedly "Do not let this proc go live. It will be ridiculously overpowered, and break the entire spec because it's way too good." And they changed it absolutely none whatsoever..... But I wasn't around at the time, so it's possible I'm wrong.

I'm not even mad that they make mistakes.  It's the fact they don't admit to the mistake.  Worst of all is then going back and putting the blame on the players and/or not making the necessary improvements to move away from things.  They had a giant post about how openers have gotten too powerful from theorycrafting and advice websites.  Well - sorry, we're going to try to be the best we can.  Also, why wouldn't the testers have seen this on their end?  If they are truly capable of seeing a class's maximum by playing it on their end, how come they didn't see this coming?  It makes me believe we can play the classes they design better than they can which calls to question the integrity of their nerfing and buffing.

[Astynax 24]

They had a giant post about how openers have gotten too powerful from theorycrafting and advice websites. Well - sorry, we're going to try to be the best we can.

This is just stupid... I feel like openers, in most specs, anyway, would've gotten to that point anyway. Press all the buttons, hit the biggest one while all the buffs are rolling. I mean, there are nuances... but..... Yeah. Lots of them are not that hard ya know.... And balancing expecting those of us capable of bleeding DPS to not is likewise dumb. I realize it can't be primary.... But it has to factor in.

Also, why wouldn't the testers have seen this on their end? If they are truly capable of seeing a class's maximum by playing it on their end, how come they didn't see this coming? It makes me believe we can play the classes they design better than they can which calls to question the integrity of their nerfing and buffing.

And yet somehow, they're seeing Demo having 150% the DPS you guys are on the beta..... /s

Edited September 8, 2014 by Astynax

[Desos 18]

It seems there is hope:

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/status/508203575042781184

 

"We found the cause of the discrepancy with Demo; some major bugfixes recently that hugely affected damage. Retuning to fix." Celestalon

Edited September 8, 2014 by check0790