WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[Zagam 1,983]

"We found the cause of discrepency" sounds a little...I don't know what to expect.  Wish they'd just say "you guys were right, we're on it to fix it right away" rather than eluding to them finding the discrepency instead of listening to us tell them of the discrepencies we found. 

 

Either way, maybe Demo can get past Holy Priests on the meters!  On a serious note, I hope all the Demo attention doesn't detract from making sure Destruction and Affliction are taken care of.

[Alphric 7]

Right? I saw his post about "It Was" and I was like...On Council of Elders during ToT Demo was overpowered...(really that whole tier) But Demo has not been no damn 33% overpowered since 5.4. I hope they do also keep the other specs in mind. I would just like all our specs to do good so I don't get into a raid and be like, "well fuck now I cant play what I want to because if I do then I wont contribute enough dps to beat the timers". We're a strict damage class that has had significant utility loss. We should be able to retain our fair and hard earned dps. Warlocks focus on damage where the other classes devote sections of timing to learn tanking and healing. and utility. We are just a powerhungry masterclass by nature. word.

[juribe 1]

Right? I saw his post about "It Was" and I was like...On Council of Elders during ToT Demo was overpowered...(really that whole tier) But Demo has not been no damn 33% overpowered since 5.4. I hope they do also keep the other specs in mind. I would just like all our specs to do good so I don't get into a raid and be like, "well fuck now I cant play what I want to because if I do then I wont contribute enough dps to beat the timers". We're a strict damage class that has had significant utility loss. We should be able to retain our fair and hard earned dps. Warlocks focus on damage where the other classes devote sections of timing to learn tanking and healing. and utility. We are just a powerhungry masterclass by nature. word.

 

Nothing they've been discussing has anything to do with live or ToT or 5.4. This is all on beta, so none of that is relevant. There was a discrepancy/bug/whatever on beta that caused their internal testing to produce inflated numbers, They're retuning so that's good.

 

Affliction is already good numbers-wise, just needs...to not be boring, but I doubt they'll fix that at this point. And I haven't played destro on beta in quite a while so I don't know where it's at.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Sad to hear that we're losing you Zag.... =( But I guess that's off topic. I was just noting that last I saw, Kazi was raiding you guys with his drood, out of want to. I assumed you'd want to stick with your beloved twisted warlock, but that's just out of guessing, I suppose. I guess it's also different as a Raid lead too. I've never had the honor, but now that you mention it, I see what you're talking about.

 

I didn't switch to druid out of wanting to be a druid -- I switched to my druid out of our needing a healer and having some skill at resto. Boomkin wasn't out of want - it was out of us picking up another resto druid and me trying to find something besides warlock to enjoy for the same reasons Zag is thinking about changing. It just so happens that I don't really enjoy much besides warlock, because that has always been my identity. It also happens that I utterly hate playing boomkin the way it is currently. I've been back to slinging Green Fire™ for a few months, now.

 

 

They had a giant post about how openers have gotten too powerful from theorycrafting and advice websites.

 

The best part: their response to this was supposed to be the way they changed trinket procs and RPPM stuff for 5.4, yet openers are still just as ridiculous, if not worse. Classes like Affliction or Boomkin that can quickly break 1M DPS and not fall below 700k for 30 seconds are proof they were just spouting bullshit so we wouldn't think they were trying to hammer just UVLS.  

[Desos 18]

Best line of the latest build notes: 

• Shadow Bolt now does 52.5% of Spell Power damage, down from 74%.

But I can imagine, it takes some time to get rid  of "the cause of discrepancy".

Edited September 9, 2014 by check0790

[Desos 18]

 

...My issue is his general mindset that any criticism he hears is automatically some bitchy 4 year old that's losing his favorite toy.

 

Yup, I´m sure gahhda provided logs/sim to stress out the lack of damage of demo and he responded, please forgive the comparison, like some sassy waitress.

 

OT: @gahhda. After looking at some of your conversations, I have to say that there are some ignorant people out there on twitter. My old IT-teacher had a saying about PC/tech problems: "90% of an error sits in front of the screen".

[Sifon 25]

Best line of the latest build notes: 

• Shadow Bolt now does 52.5% of Spell Power damage, down from 74%.

But I can imagine, it takes some time to get rid  of "the cause of discrepancy".

 

Seriously though, I hope it's the part where Celestalon said demo is gonna be clunky on next builds.

[Zagam 1,983]

Best line of the latest build notes: 

• Shadow Bolt now does 52.5% of Spell Power damage, down from 74%.

But I can imagine, it takes some time to get rid  of "the cause of discrepancy".

So, 52.5%, down from 125% - essentially a 60% nerf.  Were they letting the glyph fire out 3 normal Shadowbolts instead of 1/3 of the power for each one?   I don't even know how Shadowbolt needs nerfed that much. 

[Sifon 25]

I'm hoping that they are tuning the priorities at the moment, from what I heard ToC was better than SF and devs said it shouldn't be. This could have been done with buffing SF aswell but they don't want to overtune us I think. When they think priorities set as they wanted, everything should be buffed same amount. Right now Shadow Bolt has lower coefficent than Scorch which considered as "trivial" damage ability so current iteration cannot be correct in any means. I hope in the end demo can be competitive.

[Soulzar 42]

I think they just want us to test Destro and Aff more so they are breaking Demo for a few builds..

 

Ever since Cataclysm hit for 500k as Demo, its definitely had the players attention more than the other two specs.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Soulzar

[Twinkielock 15]

This shadowbolt nerf reminds me of the great corruption nerf of the pre TBC patch.

 

 

[Desos 18]

Nope, just 6.0 PTR aka prepatch. But Character Copy won´t work, so premades are needed. 

 

Edit: Not only does the Character Copy not work, but it is also not possible to create Premades or use lvl 90 chars, since Pandaria is somehow not active and Premades start in a faction shrine. 

Edited September 11, 2014 by Desos

[Zilthy 36]

The one thing I have not seen mentioned yet, and is the greatest tragedy for locks is Demo losing GoSac.  Why?  Because I will no longer be able to charge as a warlock, and that is just plain funsies!  :D

[Soulzar 42]

The one thing I have not seen mentioned yet, and is the greatest tragedy for locks is Demo losing GoSac.  Why?  Because I will no longer be able to charge as a warlock, and that is just plain funsies! 

 

Haha, your felguard will be happy to charge for you! :D

 

I really like the design of Synergy for Demo.

[Desos 18]

And if it isn´t happy, get a glyph and a nice weapon for your guard. Felguards love weapons. Mine has a hc Xalatoh and is happy, although it now has to hold the blade to the direction it´s whirling to.

[Eddie 16]

I gave my Wrathguard a pair of Armageddon Blades, and he's never been happier!

 

*EDIT* Yes, I did hunt down two Armageddon so that Arix-Barash can have matching weapons.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Eddie

[Zagam 1,983]

Armageddon x2 is what the Wrathguard was skinned for.  Fact.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Sucks that they scale down the weapons though.

[Alphric 7]

Yeah I was disapoint when I put them on my wrathguard. I think the original Ashkandi ends up bigger? It at least looks bigger when being held by the felguard, which looks really really good together.

[Nytemare 2]

Maybe I missed it but been checking out the talents seems from my time either go

 

Charred Reamins + GoSac for Destro, or you go GoSup + Demonic Serv for the strong Terrorguard / Abyssal as they just superior version of Fel Imp + Observer (Terroguard) / Fel Imp + Observer + Voidlord (Abyssal)

 

Just base off what I seen and record those two seems to be the choices. I have not done any math to see which combo wins out

[Nytemare 2]

Chaos Bolt Damage Test @ 100 with Human/Dwarf/ Worgen race

 

Human w/ The Human Spirit (100 Versatlity scales with level) = 2.87 Vers (2.87% Damage increase)

 

1 20478

2 20479

3 20479

4 20478

5 20479

6 20479

 

Avg = 20478.67

 

Dwarf W/ Might of the Moutain (2% Bonus Crit Damage) + Versatlity (2.10%) 

 

1 20726

2 20726

3 20726

4 20726

5 20726

6 20726

 

Ave = 20726

 

Worgen W/ Viciousness (1% Crit chance) + Versatlity (2.10%)

 

1 20481

2 20482

3 20481

4 20481

5 20481

6 20481

 

Avg = 20481.17

 

All done on a Skull Training Dummy either in SW or Darn. No Talents, No Dark Intent or any other buffs.

 

So it seems with the new Human passive they pretty close to Worgen passive for CB damage, ave only yield 3 dps difference between Human and Worgen; however, it seem Dwarf new passive makes them do on avg 247-248 damage more than Human and 244-245 damage more then Worgen

 

So base off this information Dwarf is the better  Ally PvE race for Destro Locks as you do more damage with CB than other two races

Edited September 12, 2014 by Nytemare

[Zagam 1,983]

 

Chaos Bolt Damage Test @ 100 with Human/Dwarf/ Worgen race

 

Human w/ The Human Spirit (100 Versatlity scales with level) = 2.87 Vers (2.87% Damage increase)

 

1 20478

2 20479

3 20479

4 20478

5 20479

6 20479

 

Avg = 20478.67

 

Dwarf W/ Might of the Moutain (2% Bonus Crit Damage) + Versatlity (2.10%) 

 

1 20726

2 20726

3 20726

4 20726

5 20726

6 20726

 

Ave = 20726

 

Worgen W/ Viciousness (1% Crit chance) + Versatlity (2.10%)

 

1 20481

2 20482

3 20481

4 20481

5 20481

6 20481

 

Avg = 20481.17

 

All done on a Skull Training Dummy either in SW or Darn. No Talents, No Dark Intent or any other buffs.

 

So it seems with the new Human passive they pretty close to Worgen passive for CB damage, ave only yield 3 dps difference between Human and Worgen; however, it seem Dwarf new passive makes them do on avg 247-248 damage more than Human and 244-245 damage more then Worgen

 

So base off this information Dwarf is the better  Ally PvE race for Destro Locks as you do more damage with CB than other two races

 

You literally got 0 variance with 6 Chaos Bolts on each test?  I've never seen a situation or log where the same ability hit for the exact same damage, separated by a single point.

 

Also, you tested Chaos Bolt only and didn't factor in the rest.  Dwarf's racial bonus wouldn't affect an Incinerate, Immolate, or Conflagrate if it didn't crit.  With the Worgen's racial being an RNG factor of an additional percentage of crit, you can't just scale it based on Chaos Bolt and say "xyz wins."  You have to incorporate all of the factors of DPS.  When it comes down to it, the difference will be VERY small.

[Astynax 24]

You literally got 0 variance with 6 Chaos Bolts on each test?  I've never seen a situation or log where the same ability hit for the exact same damage, separated by a single point.

 

Also, you tested Chaos Bolt only and didn't factor in the rest.  Dwarf's racial bonus wouldn't affect an Incinerate, Immolate, or Conflagrate if it didn't crit.  With the Worgen's racial being an RNG factor of an additional percentage of crit, you can't just scale it based on Chaos Bolt and say "xyz wins."  You have to incorporate all of the factors of DPS.  When it comes down to it, the difference will be VERY small.

Also, to throw it in there, because reasons, (and again before I get a comment about it, you're right, it will not make a ****lick of difference in basically any circumstance) the human passive will apply better to high haste builds for Aff and Demo, where the worgen's passive is not as strong, and the dwarf's passive will be downplayed due to low crit builds, and int no longer granting crit.-[unless I misread the beta notes on this one?]

[Liquidsteel 279]

Going with Charred Remains and GoSac like 80% of your damage comes from Chaos Bolt or something stupid (can't remember the exact percentages, but it's ridiculous).

 

So in this instance Dwarf will likely be the clear winner as Chaos Bolt always crits.

 

As usual, I base this on 0 maths.

[Zagam 1,983]

haha, 0 maths.  I think GoSac + Charred Remains won't be a viable build for Mythic - too much turreting.  Surely with how dumbed down DPS will be, the mechanics will be moderately more difficult.  If the Dwarf is 2% crit damage and Worgen is 1% crit, theoretically, Worgen = 1/2 of Dwarf.  Since Versatility is a flat rating, it'll be worth more early than it will later, if I understand how it works correctly.  Usually if a racial or something gives a flat rating increase, it becomes less and less valuable as the expansion and gear grows.