WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[Nytemare 2]

Not even close.  ToC is awful (hits for half of Shadow Bolt) but Demonbolt hits like Chaos Bolt.  Right now, they overbuffed Demonbolt by a mile, so it's mandatory for Demonology.  Therefore, the rotation has to change to include it.

 

I am all for Demo having a Chaos Bolt hard nuke, How is it possible ToC does less damage they the same spell, just goes from casting to being instant in demo. WoW hope blizzard fixes that.

[Alphric 7]

I guess when they buffed shadowbolt in the recent thing they didnt buff ToC. Which makes it less viable than soulfire and more of an on the move deal. So ToC is like fel flame, soul fire is like incinerate and demonbolt is like chaos bolt? hand of guldan sorta like conflagrate maybe? then dots =dots

[Liquidsteel 279]

They did it because previously ToC was better than Soul Fire which shouldn't happen. After tweaking the numbers, SF is now better than ToC.

 

These buffs were mainly done to get the spells in the right places damage wise in relation to each other. Expect many more tuning passes for Demonology over the coming weeks.

 

Also, I hate the new 2pc.

[Janglybits 1]

They did it because previously ToC was better than Soul Fire which shouldn't happen. After tweaking the numbers, SF is now better than ToC.

 

These buffs were mainly done to get the spells in the right places damage wise in relation to each other. Expect many more tuning passes for Demonology over the coming weeks.

 

Also, I hate the new 2pc.

SO MUCH HoG UPTIME.  I didn't know what to do with myself.

[Nytemare 2]

With changes to Demonbolt am I to understand that we pool DF and spam Demonbolt while we have fury? as each bolt increases the next one

[Liquidsteel 279]

No. You use it with cooldowns/procs. Conveniently this aligns with the Glyph of Dark Soul damn near perfectly. Regardless, pooling Fury as Demonology or Embers as Destruction is not a new thing.

 

I know you browse MMO-C too cuz I saw your racial testing thing, so go check out the tables people have posted regarding the maths. It comes down to 2x Demonbolt > Soul Fire. After the second cast it becomes more efficient to Soul Fire, UNLESS you require more burst, at which point you would continue to Demonbolt.

[Nytemare 2]

Pool is not new, but before you pooled 800-1000 DF for everything, this new spell added something extra. I have not done Demo in years, hope in WoD to get back to my roots. I love destro, but also love Demo more. 

 

Big Purple Demon nuff said lol.

 

Racial test was just for CB - if I picked the play style of using Charred Remains + GoSac that means 80%+ is from CB so test was just to see which race was strongest for that. Dwarf of course wins.

 

Also I do follow the post but nothing new has been posted since my last post, and nothing new since new build just made Demonbolt stronger. Unless I just missed a post.

[Zagam 1,983]

You don't have time to pool 1000 DF in 50 seconds of caster form (outside of Dark Soul) so there's no way.  Plus the 40 second duration isn't likely to be considered a buff - there's a reason it's under the debuffs.  You won't be able to afford it if you get it to a 4+ stack.  This is for ending a fight, killing a high priority target, or burning off your fury hard.

[Zagam 1,983]

Demo buffs?  http://replygif.net/i/979.gif

[Nytemare 2]

You don't have time to pool 1000 DF in 50 seconds of caster form (outside of Dark Soul) so there's no way.  Plus the 40 second duration isn't likely to be considered a buff - there's a reason it's under the debuffs.  You won't be able to afford it if you get it to a 4+ stack.  This is for ending a fight, killing a high priority target, or burning off your fury hard.

 

So that clear it up, DS glyph will be required. Line up nice with Eng 1min, and if you take AD that what every 30sec you can DS?

[Lockybalboa 618]

So that clear it up, DS glyph will be required. Line up nice with Eng 1min, and if you take AD that what every 30sec you can DS?

 

 

Numbers and builds still being done, we have no idea what will be "required"

[Liquidsteel 279]

Synapse Springs have been removed.

 

And no, that's not how AD works. You get 1(ONE) extra Dark Soul over the course of the entire fight. As a result, AD is devalued when you take the glyph.

[Nytemare 2]

Synapse Springs have been removed.

 

And no, that's not how AD works. You get 1(ONE) extra Dark Soul over the course of the entire fight. As a result, AD is devalued when you take the glyph.

 

AD + Glyoh = 2 charges -ea w/ 1min recharge

Start of Fight = 1st DS -> 30 sec you pop 2nd charges (Now 1st ds has 30 sec left) -> 30 sec later you pop 1st one again (2nd has 30 sec) - 30 sec you pop 2nd, Unless I missing something here they seem to line up every 30 sec you can pop one. Each charge is on its on CD from when you used it right? Of course you could be right and all that just adds up to one extra Dark Soul.

 

 

Regarding SS forgot they decide to just remove it and not allow Eng to make everyone a version like they doing with mail box and stuff.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Have you actually used AD at all this tier? The charges do not have separate cooldowns, that would be OP (haha warlocks would be OP, get it?!).

 

With AD you basically float an extra charge, but you never gain more than one use, as once you use it you are locked into the first charges cooldown. Only once that one has come off cooldown will the second charge begin its cooldown process.

[Nytemare 2]

Have you actually used AD at all this tier? The charges do not have separate cooldowns, that would be OP (haha warlocks would be OP, get it?!).

 

With AD you basically float an extra charge, but you never gain more than one use, as once you use it you are locked into the first charges cooldown. Only once that one has come off cooldown will the second charge begin its cooldown process.

 

ROFL

 

I played around with it from time to time, I stick to KJC as I like being able to move and cast Incinerate. That makes sense, but now you got to factor in glyph that takes a whole minute off the cd. might not be ever 30 sec like I said, but at some point it will line up again allow for double Dark soul within 30 sec period (might be during Sub 20%) when it be useful. Even if it only lines up at the start and end, that makes your open burst strong, and then makes your Execute burst strong as well. Only other choices would be KJC (CD), or MF (CD) due to the changes you are limited on what good. I see KJC be super OP with Hunter Fox cd allow for something like 10 sec + of straight movement where you can use any spell. My raid teams has 3 hunters, so come WoD we already plan out it and form the Mystic so far we lose a Hunter but still. 2x Hunter + KJC used at the right time could be OP lol

[Orthios 272]

AD makes DS work like conflag/HoG.  You get 2 charges where the second will not charge until the first is done charging.  

 

If a fight is movement-heavy, the yes KJC+AotF will be great for casting on the move.  6 sec raid-wide movement liberty on a 3 min cd, plus 8 sec personal movement liberty on a 1 min cd.  So if you need to move for 14 sec every 3 min, this gives you a bit more freedom in doing so.  Or if you need to move for 8 sec every 1 min.

 

As for Mannoroth's Fury, I can see this being very good with Cataclysm on multi-target fights.  The cd's align every time (just too bad MF doesn't effect Cataclysm) for some very powerful AoE Burst potential.  Something like Cataclysm>MF>AoE rotation.

[Kazistrasz 216]

AD gives you one extra DS per fight. Period. There's nothing else about it. When you reduce the value of each DS to get it more often with the glyph, you still only get exactly one extra DS, and that one extra DS is at reduced value. The glyph devalues AD. There's nothing you can argue against it.

[Alphric 7]

Demo buffs?  http://replygif.net/i/979.gif

I rofled so freaking hard. 

[Nytemare 2]

AD gives you one extra DS per fight. Period. There's nothing else about it. When you reduce the value of each DS to get it more often with the glyph, you still only get exactly one extra DS, and that one extra DS is at reduced value. The glyph devalues AD. There's nothing you can argue against it.

 

One extra, fifty extra doesn't matter DS is our biggest CD so even one extra burst window is good. Other two options are not appealing if not movement heavy fight, or you have to move more then one every 1 min for 8 sec. While MF only good for fight with straight AOE. Just our choices are limited. So regardless of glyph devalue it, if the other two choices are worthless for the fight, extra DS is a big thing.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Nytemare

[Liquidsteel 279]

Sorry but who are you arguing with? Nobody said DS was bad. Nobody said AD was bad. People were just explaining how the talents worked because you clearly didn't understand. Just accept that and move on, instead of trying to spin a new angle on your argument like that's what you always meant.

[Zagam 1,983]

I rofled so freaking hard. 

That gif - anytime I'm excited about something, I have to watch this gif - he's just SO excited about whatever his defense did.  Best part is it was on network TV and the announcers are like 'Rob is clearly excited.'  No shit - if anyone speaking English can't tell what he's saying, they ain't been around enough.

 

One extra, fifty extra doesn't matter DS is our biggest CD so even one extra burst window is good. Other two options are not appealing if not movement heavy fight, or you have to move more then one every 1 min for 8 sec. While MF only good for fight with straight AOE. Just our choices are not limited. So regardless of glyph devalue it, if the other two choices are worthless for the fight, extra DS is a big thing.

DS is our ONLY CD in WoD.  The point with AD is that if you're using the glyph, you're getting 60 second intervals on burst, so AD is inconsequential.  Demo has to build fury to have a burst window, not just click Dark Soul and generate extra damage.  If you haven't played on the beta or played Demo extensively, you might not know that building DF is going to take more than 20 seconds to spend it in 10.  AD won't be the talent taken with the glyph if the current model of Demo goes live. 

[Soulzar 42]

Sucks because Glyphing DS cuts the benefit you could get from AD in half :(

[Kazistrasz 216]

It does, and then our choices are between new KJC and MF.

I guess KJC will be nice if there's some sort of movement during a burst phase, but it's kind of lackluster. Then there's MF. To be honest I actually like MF any time I get to use it on live. There are some fights where it can even be useful just to quickly generate some DF, like Spoils.

[Liquidsteel 279]

I'll be taking glyphed Dark Soul with Cataclysm and MF on most fights considering how many have adds.

For those that are more ST oriented, I'll again be taking glyphed DS with Demonbolt and either KJC or AD. KJC is actually much more attractive this tier for Demonology as so much damage comes from those burst windows; it's pretty painful to have to move so the change is good.

[Zagam 1,983]

People haven't put a lot of thought into how badass it'll be to cast your 2-4 Demonbolts WHILE MOVING.  8 second duration on 60 sec CD is legit.  I still wish KJC was a baseline CD, like Shamans have, with a new talent going in place.  Pipedream since we're too close to release.