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Marksmanship in WoD

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So guys, I'll be testing level 60 (Steady Focus vs TotH), 75 (Stampede vs AMoC), and 100 talents, for a total of 12 tests.  I'm taking Glaive Toss for the level 90 talent for a bit of consistency and I don't want to run 36 tests to cover the level 90 talents right now.  As is, I'm lucky to break 30fps at any given time in SW on the dummy, and I did lag a bit during some of my tests.  The fact that I chose a dummy whose health never dropped skews the results to show them being a bit higher than they actually will be.


I used the default PvP Gear along with all 5 pieces of the t17 gear that could be bought, along with no gems or enchants, and the ravager pet (+3% Versatility).  Stats wise, this put me at 26.51% Crit, 8.69% Haste, 7.70% Mastery and Multistrike, and 3.59% Versatility.  I also didn't notice that the ravager was specced cunning instead of ferocity, so the first few tests may be a bit lower than if I had specced it into ferocity.

Some general things:

  • Steady Focus and the focus regen from Aimed shot Crits don't synergize very well.  
  • CPM is a lot lower than what it is in MoP, I'm looking at ~31 CPM in my tests right now.
  • Steady Focus and Focusing Shot synergize very well together.
  • Stampede pets seem really undertuned.
  • Chimaera Shot does Frost/Nature damage at random, no set pattern as to which it deals.
  • Rough estimate on stat priority right now is Crit>Haste>Mastery>MS>Versatility.  
  • I will be updating this once I get more testing done, and average the results.  Once this happens, the results should look more evenly distributed and we will get a better picture of how well the spec does.  If anyone wants to join me in this, send me log data and include which talents you are using.  The more people that help with getting data, the faster we will get a non-skewed result.
  • These are 4 min tests

So, my first round of testing concerns Exotic Munitions.  I used the poisoned munitions for this, as it is looks to be the best for ST fights.  Also, I don't know why the log included a bunch of other people, as I wasn't grouped up with anyone.

Using Steady Focus and AMoC: 15927 dps.

  • 56% Uptime on Steady Focus - This is kinda difficult to get a high uptime on actually.  With Aimed Shot crits giving back 35 focus (20 from perk and 15 from tier bonus), and the fact that I chose a dummy whose health never went down (infinite Careful Aim uptime), I was swimming in focus often enough that I didn't get many chances to double cast Steady Shot.
  • 7.5% (287k) of my damage came from Poisoned Ammo, pretty decent amount.
  • AMoC dealt 5.91% of my damage (227k), and is ticking 16 times per use, and averaged ~55k damage per use.

Using TotH and AMoC: 15446 dps.

  • 51.02% uptime of TotH.  This is a bit higher than I expected honestly, and its quite welcome.  When it's up is still tied to RNG, however.  Having Rapid Fire and TotH up at the same time is really nice, and with a lucky bit of RNG, and can provide a good dps burst.
  • 8.06% (308k) of my damage came from Poisoned Ammo, again, a decent amount.
  • AMoC dealt 5.67% of my damage (216k).  Again, averaged ~55k per use.

Using TotH and Stampede: 17065 dps.

  • Funnily enough, I had a higher dps at the 2 min mark where I had a trinket and Rapid Fire up than I did in the opener (where I used Stampede).  
  • Pets summoned by Stampede averaged ~18k damage, which seems a bit lackluster.
  • 6.70% (283k) from Poisoned Ammo.
  • I'm pretty sure this is skewed really high from lucky RNG with crits.  I'm going to redo this test in my next round.

Using Steady Focus and Stampede: 15760 dps

  • Stampede pets averaged 20k damage this time, still a bit lackluster for a 5 min cd.
  • 7.45% (297k) from Poisoned Ammo.
  • 44.2% uptime for Steady Focus.

For consistency, I will be using the same dummy on my next 2 batches of tests, so, again, the numbers are skewed a bit high and I never get to see how hard Kill Shot hits.

Edited by Orthios

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Using Focusing Shots for these tests:


Steady Focus and Stampede: 14836 dps.

  • 68.83% uptime on Steady Focus, these talents seem to synergize very well together.
  • Focusing Shot hits like a wet noodle for a 3 sec cast time - Averaged less than 10k per.
  • Stampede pets average ~20k, can't do much about this.

TotH and Stampede: 17999.5 dps

  • There has to be some weird interaction between these talents, that or I've gotten an odd string of RNG when using them.
  • 20k average for Stampede.
  • 10k average for Focusing Shot
  • 74.78% uptime on TotH - This is insane and (along with aimed shot crits) caused me to only need to use FS 6 times iin 4 mins.

TotH and AMoC: 17975 dps.

  • 76.94% uptime on TotH
  • 8.7k Average for Focusing Shot
  • 5.49% damage came from AMoC (239k)
  • Somehow managed to get a 92k Chimaera Shot crit

Steady Focus and AMoC: 17158 dps.

  • 9k Average Focusing Shot
  • 5.30% damage from AMoC (218k)
  • 65.07% uptime on Steady Focus
Edited by Orthios

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Lone Wolf Testing finally done.  There isn't a Versatility buff from Lone Wolf, so I went with the Crit buff.  

Steady Focus and AMoC: 17882 dps.

  • AMoC dealt 4.84% of my total damage (212k).
  • 46.98% uptime on Steady Focus.

TotH and AMoC: 18850 dps

  • AMoC did 5.36% of my damage (241k).
  • 54.67% uptime on TotH

TotH and Stampede: 19343 dps.

  • Managed a 103k crit with Chimaera Shot this time.  
  • 49.79% uptime on TotH
  • 19k average for Stampede pets.

Steady Focus and Stampede: 19297 dps

  • 50.82% uptime on Steady Focus
  • Pets average ~20k from Stampede
  • Managed a 105k Crit on Chimaera Shot.
Edited by Orthios

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Just thought of this, but if anyone wants to help consolidate this and possibly expand this to all 3 specs, I can start working on a few excel spreadsheets which can be open to adding more parses from y'all.

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Ok, changing up the style of testing.  Going to start doing 8-10 min logs on the killable dummies in Shattrath.  
Current thoughts on stat priority is that there will be 2 different builds: a haste build and a mastery build.  The difference between the two would be which you prioritize after crit.  
The reason crit is #1 priority is the perk (and t17 2pc) where Aimed Shot crits grant 20 (+15) focus.  There will be a 40% soft cap after which crit, haste, and mastery all are of a near equal weight.  The reason for 40% is the change to Careful Aim granting 60% crit to Aimed, Steady, and Focusing Shot.
The new mastery is...... different.  With 10% mastery, all damage is increased by 10%, and so is crit damage (so crits do 2.2x damage).  Combined with the t17 4pc (3% crit damage/sec during Rapid Fire), hitting 40% crit is an incredible burst opportunity.  Having Chimaera or Aimed Shot crit at 15 stack in Rapid Fire with 10% base mastery is 4.8x damage (if this works the way the current Agile Primal diamond works where 3% increased crit damage = 2.06x crit damage, also assuming additive crit damage multipliers).  
Haste will work as it currently does, increasing focus regen and decreasing cast times for Aimed and Steady Shot, so no explanation should be necessary here.  
Multistrike and versatility don't offer anything special to MM, so having them on gear will be ok, but not really what you want.
Thoughts on talents so far:

  • Exotic Munitions is a nice source of passive damage.
  • Lone Wolf is a great source of passive damage increase, but at the cost of utility and survivability.
  • Focusing Shot feels.... odd.  Every new and then while using it and Steady Focus, I tend to double cast it, so breaking that habit is a must.  With as much focus regen as we have (after getting a decent amount of crit), I don't see this really as being a good choice.
  • Steady Focus: I really wish this was either reverted to what it is on live or changed to be passive.  
  • Stampede: Not worth taking as MM, haven't tried it for SV or BM, but it wouldn't surprise me if its as lackluster for those specs as well.
  • TotH: This is nice, and likely what I will end up using barring any changes to the rest of that talent tier.
  • Barrage: I honestly haven't looked into Barrage yet, so can't comment much here.  However, it's 960% weapon damage (if wowhead is correct), vs Glaive Toss's 36% AP.  The 60 focus cost is a little off-putting, but with how much focus regen MM has, I don't think it will be too big of an issue.
Edited by Orthios

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Barrage: I honestly haven't looked into Barrage yet, so can't comment much here.  However, it's 960% weapon damage (if wowhead is correct), vs Glaive Toss's 36% AP.  The 60 focus cost is a little off-putting, but with how much focus regen MM has, I don't think it will be too big of an issue.



Well, remember there are two Glaives hurled and the primary target takes 4x as much damage from each strike - 15 sec CD versus Barrage w/ a 20 sec CD.


I would be curious which one pulls ahead single target and which one pulls ahead 4+ targets.

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Well, remember there are two Glaives hurled and the primary target takes 4x as much damage from each strike - 15 sec CD versus Barrage w/ a 20 sec CD.


I would be curious which one pulls ahead single target and which one pulls ahead 4+ targets.

Ahh, forgot about that.  That puts Glaives at 8x 36% = 288% AP.  I don't think the 5sec difference will make too much of a difference.  In 1 min you get either 4 glaive toss's or 3 barrages.  On 1 target that puts glaives at 1152% AP over 1min and Barrage at 2880% Weapon Damage.  1 Agi = 1 AP = 3.5 Weapon DPS.  Next time I get on the Beta, I'll definitely look into which is better for ST and 4+ Targets (thank you Shattrath testing dummies).  I'll likely be taking Lone Wolf, AMoC, and TotH for testing these, as that seems like it will be the best *general* talent setup for MM right now.


For 4 targets (this is just number crunching here, not real testing), Glaive Toss does 144% AP per glaive to the primary target and 36% AP to all others.  IF all targets are hit by both glaives, that puts it at 504% AP (across 4 targets).  For Barrage, the primary target receives 960% Weapon Damage, and all others take 480% Weapon Damage.  Again assuming all targets are hit by all of Barrage, you have 2400% Weapon Damage (across 4 targets).  


Edit: Before I forget, here's the link to the Excel spreadsheet I mentioned earlier.  I haven't updated since my first round of testing, so the new testing format hasn't been added.  Sheet 1 just shows the dps and average, sheet 2 is where the details are, and the soon to exist sheet 3 will be info on the testing format.

Edited by Orthios

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