6.1 Demonology Guide

[Luvlockdown 0]

Hi,

 

I would like to know more about the values of Demonic Fury as to at which value you should activate Metamorphis and if you should let it run out or cancel it at a certain amount?

 

Thank you!

[Lockybalboa 618]

Build DF, enter meta at 850, nuke phase, exit, repeat.

[Zagam 1,983]

Build DF, enter meta at 850, nuke phase, exit, repeat.

Applicable for 4 DB cycle, which is optimal for single target.  For multiple targets or DoT cleaving with Doom, 3 DB cycle is preferred to leave you some room to apply Doom to multiple targets.  It's also more reasonable to use in movement heavy fights to allow yourself some DF to use ToC to keep up some DPS while moving.  Either way is fine.

[sbVital 2]

Applicable for 4 DB cycle, which is optimal for single target.  For multiple targets or DoT cleaving with Doom, 3 DB cycle is preferred to leave you some room to apply Doom to multiple targets.  It's also more reasonable to use in movement heavy fights to allow yourself some DF to use ToC to keep up some DPS while moving.  Either way is fine.

 

I was having DPS issues with Tectus but this may be my problem. On fights like Tectus, I should be using the 3 DB method instead of 4, making sure I Doom the split adds?

[Gnar 26]

I was having DPS issues with Tectus but this may be my problem. On fights like Tectus, I should be using the 3 DB method instead of 4, making sure I Doom the split adds?

 You should use Cataclysm for Doom application for the motes and whenever else its CD is ready. For the non mote phases, multidot as much as you can and HoG stack cleave if you tank the bosses together (most don't).

[Gnar 26]

And now why I came here.  Does anyone else just hate the Demonbolt playstyle.  Yeah I know it's mad damage and shit and does fine even outside of procs and all but I feel robbed off my trinket nuke window snapshotting skills.  All I do now is save a few SF outside of meta for rppm procs if I have an rppm on. Anyone else or am I a lone soldier who will fall victim to the "DEMONBOLT IS SO FUN LOOK AT THE DAMAGES" people who seem to sway Blizzard into doing things like removing personal loot form dungeons for a day.

[Lockybalboa 618]

Not a huge fan of DemonBolt also. I'd like to at least have more options.

[Zagam 1,983]

And now why I came here.  Does anyone else just hate the Demonbolt playstyle.  Yeah I know it's mad damage and shit and does fine even outside of procs and all but I feel robbed off my trinket nuke window snapshotting skills.  All I do now is save a few SF outside of meta for rppm procs if I have an rppm on. Anyone else or am I a lone soldier who will fall victim to the "DEMONBOLT IS SO FUN LOOK AT THE DAMAGES" people who seem to sway Blizzard into doing things like removing personal loot form dungeons for a day.

Makes it feel an awful lot like Destruction, doesn't it?  Sad that optimal Metamorphosis uptime is something near 18-20% when it used to be 40%.  Burst phases FEEL weak because of how little time we spend in it. 

 

I'm sad that the alternatives are Destruction, where you spend 65% of your globals casting Incinerate, and Affliction, where you spend 65% of your globals casting Drain Soul.  So much fun.  Fun is, of course, subjective, so some may find the specs fun, but I'm pretty bored of Warlocks only 4 weeks in and I missed 10 days. 

 

I dinged 100 on my Death Knight last night and it was ridiculous how powerful I was compared to where my Warlock was at level 100.  It's also a LOT of fun.  The quickness between Howling Blast, Obliterate, Frost Strike and laying down mother-effing Defile is fun to me. 

 

I'm hoping some changes come tonight/tomorrow, but it's a faint hope at best.

[gahhda 95]

Applicable for 4 DB cycle, which is optimal for single target.  For multiple targets or DoT cleaving with Doom, 3 DB cycle is preferred to leave you some room to apply Doom to multiple targets.  It's also more reasonable to use in movement heavy fights to allow yourself some DF to use ToC to keep up some DPS while moving.  Either way is fine.

 

Keeep in mind the fact that a majority of our DF generation on 2+ targets comes from doom (wild imps) + corruption + hog. Doom doesn't actually become DF neutral until uhhh..well math:

 

I'm assuming 4 ticks because fuck partial haste tick bullshit.

 

( 60 / 50 ) / 4 = 0.3

 

30% crit needed for a doom to pay for itself.

 

By the end of the tier a demo lock running m > c = m > h > v will have ~20% crit chance. So..

 

( x / 50 ) / 4 = 0.2

( x / 50 ) = 0.8

x = 40

 

By the end of the tier we can expect doom to pay off 2/3rds of it's cost.

 

But again, adding a second corruption, which is actually a LOT MORE of our DF generation than people think, actually makes it a bit easier to maintain higher DB stacks on MT than ST.

[Zagam 1,983]

Yeah, if I spent time multi-dotting Corruption in 5 mans, I found myself overflowing on DF.  They made it to where keeping DoTs up is super important, which is good. 

 

Also, G, are you factoring in Doom's perk of 20% additional crit chance bonus? 

[gahhda 95]

Makes it feel an awful lot like Destruction, doesn't it?  Sad that optimal Metamorphosis uptime is something near 18-20% when it used to be 40%.  Burst phases FEEL weak because of how little time we spend in it. 

 

I'm sad that the alternatives are Destruction, where you spend 65% of your globals casting Incinerate, and Affliction, where you spend 65% of your globals casting Drain Soul.  So much fun.  Fun is, of course, subjective, so some may find the specs fun, but I'm pretty bored of Warlocks only 4 weeks in and I missed 10 days. 

 

I dinged 100 on my Death Knight last night and it was ridiculous how powerful I was compared to where my Warlock was at level 100.  It's also a LOT of fun.  The quickness between Howling Blast, Obliterate, Frost Strike and laying down mother-effing Defile is fun to me. 

 

I'm hoping some changes come tonight/tomorrow, but it's a faint hope at best.

 

Warlocks are perfectly fine, melee needs nerfs, not warlock buffs.

[gahhda 95]

Yeah, if I spent time multi-dotting Corruption in 5 mans, I found myself overflowing on DF.  They made it to where keeping DoTs up is super important, which is good. 

 

Also, G, are you factoring in Doom's perk of 20% additional crit chance bonus? 

 

( 60 / 50 ) / 4  = ( x - 0.2 ) 

( x - 0.2 ) = 0.3

x = 0.1

 

10% required to pay it off, so in bis BRF gear running a moderately high crit build:

 

( x / 50 ) / 4 = ( 0.2 + 0.2 )

 

x / 50 = 1.6

 

x = 80

 

A doom in bis will net you + 20 DF.

 

Side note, I'd like to point out that:

 

Demonology spends 59% of it's time hitting SF/SB.

Destruction spends 61.5% of it's time hitting incinerate.

Affliction spends 69.7% of it's time hitting drain soul.

 

This hasn't changed since last expansion, all warlock specs spend ~the same time hitting bullshit fillers. It just feels like demo is less mundane because the bullshit fillers are broken into 3 spells, that all do basically the exact same thing, deal damage and/or generate DF.

Edited December 15, 2014 by gahhda

[Zagam 1,983]

Warlocks are perfectly fine, melee needs nerfs, not warlock buffs.

I agree.  But I doubt they'll take the time to balance nerfs for multiple classes.  Then again, nothing they do suprises me anymore.  Time to get 2200 on my DK before massive nerfs. 

 

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...sec.

Gotta love dem perks, right?  This perk is the reason that I suggest such an emphasis on 3 DB cycle so that you can keep Doom up all the time.  Someone getting to 20% Crit on their sheet DPS is going to have 40% with Doom.  If you only have 4 ticks, you're almost guaranteed for each one to pay for itself.  Probability of not getting one crit with a 40% chance on 4 ticks is 12.96%.  If you have 5 ticks, the odds go down to 7.77%.  Assuming some raid Haste, 5 ticks is going to pay for itself 92.3% of the time.

[Gnar 26]

I really hope you are right Zag and that some minor hotfixes go live but I doubt it happens since I've heard nothing.  Until then, my monk still has great trinket window burst so I'll get my fix that way.

[Zagam 1,983]

Hotfixes announced - Warlocks ignored.  Make do the best you can.

[Astynax 24]

Gotta love dem perks, right?  This perk is the reason that I suggest such an emphasis on 3 DB cycle so that you can keep Doom up all the time.  Someone getting to 20% Crit on their sheet DPS is going to have 40% with Doom.  If you only have 4 ticks, you're almost guaranteed for each one to pay for itself.  Probability of not getting one crit with a 40% chance on 4 ticks is 12.96%.  If you have 5 ticks, the odds go down to 7.77%.  Assuming some raid Haste, 5 ticks is going to pay for itself 92.3% of the time.

 

Wait, now we're at 3 DB cycle? Lol. How many times have we rewritten this book since i read it about two weeks ago? lol. Not that I'm against it, but I didn't see the math for it. Have we changed the meta?

[Zagam 1,983]

The math is one thing - direct application is another.  In most situations, you can get off 4, but ease of playstyle considering moving with ToC facilitates 3 DB cycle.  You'll know if it if you play it.  Keeping Doom applied to multiple targets requires 50 DF per cast, so 850 isn't enough for 4 DB cycle.  Plus, your debuff from DB should be wearing off before you get to 850 - this is another reason to go with 3 DB.  It's not math that requires it - it's the feel and flow to a fight. 

[Astynax 24]

The math is one thing - direct application is another.  In most situations, you can get off 4, but ease of playstyle considering moving with ToC facilitates 3 DB cycle.  You'll know if it if you play it.  Keeping Doom applied to multiple targets requires 50 DF per cast, so 850 isn't enough for 4 DB cycle.  Plus, your debuff from DB should be wearing off before you get to 850 - this is another reason to go with 3 DB.  It's not math that requires it - it's the feel and flow to a fight. 

 

Right. Well, I had a short spiel on it somewhere in here, where I essentially made the point that if you could get the debuff to fall off every 32 seconds, it was basically a net zero gain. I haven't yet (without getting really lucky) been finding myself sat on 850 fury with my debuff lingering, but I can feel the point approaching.I have felt a bit fury starved on things like say brackspore, but they're rare, and seem to be dimishing, so I dismissed it as me being new to the spec.

[Furyio 3]

Does anyone here using Bartender have problems saving Demonbolt to their bars when they hit 100?

 

I change into Meta, save the spell yo mt bar, but it sticks when i get out of emta, overriding the spell i normally have there 

 

No one ever got back to me on this :(

 

Anyone using Bartender have problems saving demonbolt to their bars, using bartender

[Astynax 24]

No one ever got back to me on this

 

Anyone using Bartender 

 

There's your problem. lol.

[Alkeir 1]

So are people still thinking Demo is viable in PvE instead of playing destro or afflic? My dps is just so low compared to other destro locks. I've been trying hard to improve but my dps is still subpar...16-17k single target....~19k on a fight like twin ogron..639 ilvl..

[Liquidsteel 279]

Demo 100% viable in PVE, spec choice is largely based on the encounter.

[Saifadin 0]

Demo 100% viable in PVE, spec choice is largely based on the encounter.

 

I am currently running Demo and Affliction. I use Demo on Tectus (Because of AoE Burst and help with the movement), Butcher and Kargath (because of good single target DPS). Affli is good at fights with very high movement like Brackenspore or Butcher when you are assigned to help the melee groups or take the flame thrower. You can have a quite nice DPS on the boss while moving.

 

Twin Ogrons I would give the advantage to Destro but I am too lazy to specc after every fight and I good very good gear for both affli and Demo.

 

Its more viable then while SoO...

[Liquidsteel 279]

I can't see how Twin Ogron lends itself to Destruction, it's probably the worst.

 

So much movement, Demo with Cataclysm and Affliction with SB:H did very well for me.

[Alkeir 1]

I can't see how Twin Ogron lends itself to Destruction, it's probably the worst.

 

So much movement, Demo with Cataclysm and Affliction with SB:H did very well for me.

What fights are fights to be taking Cata>Demonbolt? I had just assumed that you go demonbolt every fight.