Damien

Subtlety Rogue 6.2

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This thread is for comments about our Subtlety Rogue guide.

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Out of curiosity - why there's no mentioning of Glyph of Disappearance in the guide?

With Enhanced Vanish and this Glyph Subtlety has insane 30 sec Vanish cooldown.

This should lead to a much higher uptime of Find Weakness

 

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Out of curiosity - why there's no mentioning of Glyph of Disappearance in the guide?

With Enhanced Vanish and this Glyph Subtlety has insane 30 sec Vanish cooldown.

This should lead to a much higher uptime of Find Weakness.

Because it's an Assassination/Combat-only glyph smile.png

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Single Target Rotation:
If I benefit from Sanguinary Vein, the guide tells me to use 

Eviscerate instead of Rupture.

 

Multiple Target Rotation (2 or 3 enemies):
Due to Crimson Tempest, I benefit from Sanguinary Vein.

Now the guide tells me to use Rupture on everything. (Instead

of using Eviscerate that many times).

 

That's a contradiction. So, should I use Rupture only to maintain the

Sanguinary Vein buff or does it also do more damage than

eviscerate?

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Single Target Rotation:

If I benefit from Sanguinary Vein, the guide tells me to use 

Eviscerate instead of Rupture.

 

Multiple Target Rotation (2 or 3 enemies):

Due to Crimson Tempest, I benefit from Sanguinary Vein.

Now the guide tells me to use Rupture on everything. (Instead

of using Eviscerate that many times).

 

That's a contradiction. So, should I use Rupture only to maintain the

Sanguinary Vein buff or does it also do more damage than

eviscerate?

I've re-read these sections and it seems very clear to me. In the single-target rotation, it doesn't say to use Eviscerate instead of Rupture, simply that Rupture has a higher priority than Eviscerate and that you shouldn't use Rupture if somehow you already have Garrote or Crimson Tempest applied on the target (because in the case of the single-target rotation, what matters is that you benefit from Sanguinary Veins). In the case of the multiple-target rotation, there is no mention of Sanguinary Vein and that is because what matters here is that you apply Rupture (on the other targets) and Crimson Tempest for the damage that they do, not the Sanguinary Vein buff (which is just an added benefit in this case).

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This guide is contradictory and wrong. It says that you only apply rupture for single target dps to get the sanguinary vein buff. Why would you do that, when you  can get that buff from hemorrhage, which will be applied at all times, since it has a higher priority than backstab? 

Apart from that, blizzard says that multistrike is the prefered stat (Through the 5% bonus from Sinister Calling). This guide says that multistrike is on par with mastery as the best secondary stat too. The special thing multistrike does for rogues, is that it shortens the time that your bleeds take to do the damage, also through Sinister Calling. If this guide is correct, then getting multistrikes is actually a bad thing, because it means that you have to use your worse finisher rupture, to get the debuff up again. This makes absolutely no sense on a game design stand point.

 

I was confused by this, and have therefore checked my recount regularly, to see whether or not it can be correct that eviscerate does more damage than rupture, with the sanguinary vein buff up. As it turns out, rupture does approximately twice the damage of eviscerate, which makes rupture worth using, even without considering the sanguinary vein buff.

 

I'm wondering if this mistake originated from an assassination guide, where you only benefitted from one bleed at a time, with the venomous wounds passive. Either way, I personally can't trust this guide until that has been updated, as the rest of the guide may be just as sloppily done.

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Thanks for your reply, but it's still not completely clear to me.

I'll try to elaborate:

We agree that Sanguinary Vein ist not the issue here, because in both

cases we already benefit from it (either via Garrote or Crimson Tempest)

and thus we don't need Rupture for this purpose.

 

Now, because the debate is whether to use Rupture or Eviscerate, it doesn't

really matter if the target is the only one (Single Target) or part of a group of

enemies (Multiple Target). Both Rupture and Eviscerate only affect one target anyways.

 

The Single Target Rotation now tells me to use Eviscerate, (Rupture only to maintain

Sanguinary Vein) which means that Eviscerate does more damage than Rupture.

 

But the Multiple Target Rotation tells me to use Rupture, which means that Rupture does

more damage.

 

They can't both do more damage than the other.

I may be wrong or I may have overlooked something, but this is the issue I have with it.

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This guide is contradictory and wrong. It says that you only apply rupture for single target dps to get the sanguinary vein buff. Why would you do that, when you  can get that buff from hemorrhage, which will be applied at all times, since it has a higher priority than backstab? 

Apart from that, blizzard says that multistrike is the prefered stat (Through the 5% bonus from Sinister Calling). This guide says that multistrike is on par with mastery as the best secondary stat too. The special thing multistrike does for rogues, is that it shortens the time that your bleeds take to do the damage, also through Sinister Calling. If this guide is correct, then getting multistrikes is actually a bad thing, because it means that you have to use your worse finisher rupture, to get the debuff up again. This makes absolutely no sense on a game design stand point.

 

I was confused by this, and have therefore checked my recount regularly, to see whether or not it can be correct that eviscerate does more damage than rupture, with the sanguinary vein buff up. As it turns out, rupture does approximately twice the damage of eviscerate, which makes rupture worth using, even without considering the sanguinary vein buff.

 

I'm wondering if this mistake originated from an assassination guide, where you only benefitted from one bleed at a time, with the venomous wounds passive. Either way, I personally can't trust this guide until that has been updated, as the rest of the guide may be just as sloppily done.

  

Thanks for your reply, but it's still not completely clear to me.

I'll try to elaborate:

We agree that Sanguinary Vein ist not the issue here, because in both

cases we already benefit from it (either via Garrote or Crimson Tempest)

and thus we don't need Rupture for this purpose.

 

Now, because the debate is whether to use Rupture or Eviscerate, it doesn't

really matter if the target is the only one (Single Target) or part of a group of

enemies (Multiple Target). Both Rupture and Eviscerate only affect one target anyways.

 

The Single Target Rotation now tells me to use Eviscerate, (Rupture only to maintain

Sanguinary Vein) which means that Eviscerate does more damage than Rupture.

 

But the Multiple Target Rotation tells me to use Rupture, which means that Rupture does

more damage.

 

They can't both do more damage than the other.

I may be wrong or I may have overlooked something, but this is the issue I have with it.

I'll consult with our reviewers on the matter then and I'll get back to you guys.

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I didn't have Fiery available, but I talked to Spazzo from Blood Legion and made a few fixes regarding Sanguinary Vein and Rupture. Hopefully, it's clearer and more correct now. And to be clear, what was previously written in the guide may not have been optimal, but it may only have resulted in like 0.1% less DPS.

The question on stats is that Multistrike and Mastery are always very close. This is what comes out of both SimC and Shadowcraft.

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I have a question. Sublety rogue doesn't require you to have a dagger off-hand. In my case i have a choice between a 615 dagger or a 645 mace, and currently i'm using my mace as off-hand and doing alot more damage than i did with my dagger. Can you in the guide somehow explain the off-hand choices here or am i basically wrong about it and my choice is completely wrong?

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I have a question. Sublety rogue doesn't require you to have a dagger off-hand. In my case i have a choice between a 615 dagger or a 645 mace, and currently i'm using my mace as off-hand and doing alot more damage than i did with my dagger. Can you in the guide somehow explain the off-hand choices here or am i basically wrong about it and my choice is completely wrong?

 

Backstab requires you to have 2 daggers.

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Backstab requires you to have 2 daggers.

 

Mutilate requires you to have two daggers, you can backstab with just one as long as it is in your main hand. 

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Mutilate requires you to have two daggers, you can backstab with just one as long as it is in your main hand.

I just tested and you are correct. The tooltip for Backstab says "Requires Daggers". Go figure tongue.png

Anyway, I did some tests and you should use the spare weapon you have available with the highest item level in your Off-hand slot. I updated the guide to reflect that.

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Assuming that Backstab requires a Main-Hand Dagger, than the sentence "Finally, there is no reason for you to stick with a Dagger in your Main-Hand slot, as you cannot use Backstab." is incorrect. This is found in section 5.9 of Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities.

 

I propose revising that to be:

"Finally, there is no reason for you to stick with a Dagger in your Off-Hand slot, as only the Main-Hand slot requires a Dagger to use Backstab."

 

You could add something about the Off-Hand slot simply being your next highest item level weapon regardless if its a Dagger or otherwise.

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I know in the past we've used faster off hand weapons because it leads to more poison applications. Does that still apply with the way poisons don't go to specific weapons?

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Simple question about stat priority for sub rogue:

( on the second priority) Multistrike = Mastery: I understand the equality, but is it a choice of which one you would prefer, or does the priority go, choose one from Multistrike or Mastery and the latter decision will be your next stat priority?  Same question regarding Critical Strike = Versatility.  Is it just a choice of choose one and disregard or the other, or what I have previously stated?

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Might want to change trade_alchemy_potiond6.jpgVirmen's Bite to trade_alchemy_dpotion_a27.jpgDraenic Agility Potion

Thanks, I changed it shortly after your comment, because Spazzo mentioned it in his review.

 

 

Assuming that Backstab requires a Main-Hand Dagger, than the sentence "Finally, there is no reason for you to stick with a Dagger in your Main-Hand slot, as you cannot use Backstab." is incorrect. This is found in section 5.9 of Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities.

 

I propose revising that to be:

"Finally, there is no reason for you to stick with a Dagger in your Off-Hand slot, as only the Main-Hand slot requires a Dagger to use Backstab."

 

You could add something about the Off-Hand slot simply being your next highest item level weapon regardless if its a Dagger or otherwise.

I think my explanations are correct as they are.

 

I know in the past we've used faster off hand weapons because it leads to more poison applications. Does that still apply with the way poisons don't go to specific weapons?

 

This no longer applies, see: http://www.icy-veins.local/wow/subtlety-rogue-pve-dps-gear-loot-best-in-slot#sec-2

 

Simple question about stat priority for sub rogue:

( on the second priority) Multistrike = Mastery: I understand the equality, but is it a choice of which one you would prefer, or does the priority go, choose one from Multistrike or Mastery and the latter decision will be your next stat priority?  Same question regarding Critical Strike = Versatility.  Is it just a choice of choose one and disregard or the other, or what I have previously stated?

It's the former. Consider both stats to have equal values and keep them balanced (so 500 Multistrike and 1500 Mastery is not advised).

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Hello,

I figured rather than telling rogues that Icy-veins is not a good place to go for information about optimizing your sub rogue play. I'd figure I'll help improving it instead.

Here's some stuff I want revised or at least looked at.

My sources are ShC, SimC, #Ravenholdt, Personal experiance as a average of 97th percentile sub on warcraft logs.

 

Tier 1 talents.

1) It is stated that Shadow Focus is 2% more overall damage. This is outright false, and it falls even more behind when you couple Subterfuge with the Vanish glyph. Subterfuge should be the winner.

2) It is stated that the main reason to be Sub is burst damage. While this might be a reason, Sub has the most single target DPS overall and should thus be the main reason to spec it.

 

Tier 2 talents.

1) Minor. But Deadly throw allows you to interupt if you mess up a kick. While Combat Readiness does not really do anything that evasion cannot.

 

Tier 6 talents.

1) It might be worth mentioning that on AoE with 5 or more targets that do not die quickly, Anticipation will net more combo points than Marked for Death. Marked for death is better on lower hp "add fights" where you swap, such as adds on Brackenspore. But not on fights such as Tectus if you kill both shards at the same time, due to Crimson Tempest mechanics.

 

Tier 7 talents.

1) Death from above is not similar value to SR. It's almost 7% dps decrease on ST according to ShC. Matter of fact, Venom rush is higher DPS on single target. However; what you stated about several targets is correct.

 

Major Glyphs

1) With Subterfuge, glyph of Vanish is our highest DPS boost for a glyph. This is not even mentioned. Accompanied to this, you should also explain how it changes your rotation.

2) Glyph of Hemorrhaging vains is not always a DPS gain if you opt for the Garrote -> SR/SD opener (which you should).

 

That brings us to -

ST Rotation

1) "Reapply Hemorrhage after the bleed effect ends." Due to pandemic mechanics, you should do it as early as posible under the 40% of the original debuff time to ensure you do not waste any uptime due to multistrike BS's.

 

MT Rotation

1) Mention Slice and Dice!!!

2) You should finish with CT even on 2 targets. Not evis, unless FW is up.

3) Maybe make it clearer that you want to CT before you start rupture due to SV.

 

Poisons

1) Sometimes Crippling is more harm than good. If adds needs to be move quickly.

 

Cooldowns

1) Shadow dance lasts for 10 seconds. Not 8.

2) You say use vanish on CD. But you should not use it if FW is up (unless you messed up and have a lot of energy at the end of FW, then you can vanish/ambush when there ~0.2 sec left) Or if you're running the suboptimal Shadow Focus, this also applies. However, if you're running Shadow Focus, you might want to wait for Premed anyways.

 

Find Weakness (or maybe on glyph of Vanish text)

1) Mention that if you time your vanish so that your autoattack lands just before the first Subterfuge ends, and then you stop spamming abilities. Then the second subterfuge will be delayed until your first attack lands. And thus netting you another 1 seconds of Master of Sublety as well as Find weakness per vanish.

 

Opener

1) Garrote -> Trinket/SR -> Rupture -> Dance is superiour to your opener.

2) Even with Subterfuge, you want to use the above opener! Else your SR wont have your trinket procs when it starts doing damage!

 

Basics

1) Have never with any gear set up seen Mastery close to Multistrike.

2) However Mastery can be close to crit at some gear combinations.

3) Same with Versatility.

 

Enchants

1) At almost all gear levels we can currently acquire, going 1x Mark of the Shattered Hand and 1x Mark of the Frostwolf is prefered.

2) I have no clue why the Mastery enchant was mentioned here.

 

BiS

1) Pretty certain Captive Micro-Aberration outperforms coin at all levels. Needs to be checked though.

 

Weapon Choice

1) Maybe add an honorable mention that the Axe Phemo's Double Slasher is BiS offhand due to its stats.

 

Loot competition

Combat rogues really never wants a dagger in offhand. They do however want a dagger in Main hand while they are using Bladeflurry.

 

Hopefully some of these will be taken into consideration.

 

//Rosvall

 

 

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Hello,

Why do you use shadow reflection before Rupture ?

 

Hey,

 

Rupture has a higher damage per cast (quite so) compared to Eviscerate. Thus it is intuatative that you would want your Shadow Reflection to cast Rupture instead of an Eviscerate.

 

While the ingame UI does not pick up that your Shadow Reflection's Rupture keeps ticking after it dies, the logs shows that it does indeed keep ticking for the full amount of time.

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I dont know at which point using fan of knives for extra combo points over backstab is beneficial, but it certainly isn't for 2 targets. SInister calling procs off backstab and ambush multistrikes; if you switch out backstab for an extra combo point on 2 target fights, you completely lose sinister calling's procs outside your ambushes. I've tested this extensively on brackenspore and twin ogrons, and pulls where i kept with the regular single target rotation but applying rupture+crimson tempest on the second target yielded much better results than FoKing.

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I've done a number of updates to the guide, following Rosvall's feedback. Thanks smile.png

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Doing SR before Rupture puts a cloned version of it on the target, which run for its whole duration.

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      Heart of Azeroth Explained How to Get the Heart of Azeroth Interviews
      Several community websites had the chance to sit down with WoW devs at PAX East 2018 to talk about Battle for Azeroth and we have roundups of their interviews:
      Battle for Azeroth Community Interviews Part I Battle for Azeroth Community Interviews Part II Forbes Interview with Game Director Ion Hazzikostas Part I Forbes Interview with Game Director Ion Hazzikostas Part II InvenGlobal Developer Interview PCGamesN Interview with Production Director John Hight *NEW* The Starting Zone Interview Island Expeditions
      Plunder uncharted Islands in Battle for Azeroth. The new 3-player dynamic Scenarios come in four difficulties and the goal is to collect 6,000 Azerite before the opposing faction!
      Island Expeditions Preview - Un'gol Ruins Island Expeditions Mounts Island Expeditions (Official Preview) Legacy Loot Mode
      Personal Loot used in dungeons since Patch 7.3.5 was not well received by transmog collectors. Blizzard is trying to fix it with the introduction of Legacy Loot mode.
      Legion Artifact Weapons
      We're retiring our Artifact weapons soon and Battle for Azeroth goes back to standard weapon drops. You will still be able to transmogrify the Artifact appearance though and some of them will still whisper you.
      Legion Artifacts in Battle for Azeroth Legion Artifact Retirement Questline Legendary Items in Battle for Azeroth
      Nothing has been officially confirmed yet, but there may be at least one Legendary item in Battle for Azeroth. The Legion Legendary system will be abandoned and their effects will no longer work past level 115.
      Login Screen
      Battle for Azeroth Login Screen Lore
      This section contains various articles about lore characters, scenarios and gameplay previews.
      Battle for Lordaeron Scenario (Alliance & Horde PoV) Environmental Changes of Teldrassil and Undercity The Burning of Teldrassil Intro The Stormwind Extraction Scenario (Horde Intro) Zandalar Forever Scenario  Map Improvements
      World boss spawns and boat/zeppelin locations will be indicated on the world map in Battle for Azeroth.
      Map Improvements in Battle for Azeroth Mounts
      If you're an avid mount collector, Battle for Azeroth will most definitely not disappoint you. Plenty of cool mounts are coming and we covered the following flying/ground mounts so far:
      Reputation Mounts in Battle for Azeroth Mounts from Mythic(+) Dungeons Mount Rewards for 100 Exalted Reputation & Collecting 400 Mounts Basilisk PvP Mounts Battle for Lordaeron Faction Mounts Bee Mounts Bloodfeaster Mounts Brutosaur Mount (Mount with an Auctioneer Costs 5 Million Gold) Clefthoof PvP Mount Crawg Mounts Darkhound Mount Frog Mounts Goblin Hovercraft Mounts Hyena Mounts Obsidian Krolusk Mount (Glory of the Wartorn Hero Reward) Parrot Mounts Proto-drake Mounts Raptor Mounts Swift Spectral Phoenix Mount Tempestuous Skystallion Mount Vulture Mounts Vicious War Hippo Mount Music
      Main Battle for Azeroth Soundtrack Mythic Keystone Changes
      No huge changes are planned for the Mythic Keystone system. It has been received well in Legion. We datamined some spells related to Mythic Keystone customization and a new (possibly level 10) affix.  Tyrannical & Fortified affixes will be moved to level 2 Keystones to avoid awkward power spikes and the weekly Mythic chest has a chance to contain up to 3 pieces of loot.
      Infested Affix in Battle for Azeroth Mythic Keystone Customization New Mythic Affixes Weekly Mythic Cache Rewards in Battle for Azeroth Pet Battles
      In Battle for Azeroth, level of the pets opposing you will scale to the highest level pet on your team. New pet mechanics will be introduced and some existing mechanics will change.
      Pet Battle Changes in Battle for Azeroth Pet Battle Philosophies in Battle for Azeroth Pet Battle Updates (Beta Build 26707) Profession Changes
      Most First Aid recipes have been moved to Tailoring and achievements are now Feats of Strength, hinting at a possible removal of First Aid. An early look at Profession changes and new recipes can be found here.
      PvP  *NEW*
      Quality of life improvements are coming to PvP in Battle for Azeroth. Strand of the Ancients will be removed, the two 40v40 battlegrounds will have a separate queue, and more!
      Changes to Multiboxing in Battle for Azeroth Dueler's Guild Preview PvP Talents in Battle for Azeroth PvP Rating Updates in Battle for Azeroth Battleground Updates in Battle for Azeroth New PvP Ranking and Item Level Systems in Battle for Azeroth Prestige Levels in Battle for Azeroth War Mode in Battle for Azeroth Enabled War Mode Increases XP Gains by 10% Reputations
      Multiple factions have been added to the game in Battle for Azeroth and you can gain reputation with them by completing world quests.
      Reputation Rewards in Battle for Azeroth Research Advancement
      There are six tiers of research that provide various boons in the new expansion.
      Research Advancement in Battle for Azeroth Q&A
      Game Director Ion Hazzikostas is periodically answering your Battle for Azeroth questions. The latest Q&A was conducted on April 26.
      Battle for Azeroth Live Developer Q&A (June 14) Battle for Azeroth Live Developer Q&A (April 26) Battle for Azeroth Live Developer Q&A (March 15) Battle for Azeroth Live Developer Q&A (January 30) Racial Nerfs
      Every Man for Himself and Arcane Torrent will be nerfed in Battle for Azeroth. You can find more information here.
      Raids
      Uldir will be the first raid of the expansion. In a future raid (probably the Nighthold raid equivalent in BfA), we're going to fight Azshara. FatbossTV have done previews of Uldir encounters on Heroic difficulty.
      Heroic Uldir Raid Testing: G'huun Heroic Uldir Raid Testing: Mythrax the Unraveler Heroic Uldir Raid Testing: Taloc & Fetid Devourer Heroic Uldir Raid Testing: MOTHER & Vectis Uldir Raid Encounters Uldir Sets Preview Uldir Zone Preview & Zek'voz, Herald of N'zoth (Heroic) Testing Timewalking
      Mists of Pandaria is receiving its first Timewalking raid in Battle for Azeroth.
      Siege of Orgrimmar Timewalking Warfronts
      Warfronts are 20-player PvE scenarios coming in Battle for Azeroth. The first Warfront was recently enabled for testing on Alpha.
      Battle of Stromgarde Warfront Preview Warfronts Schedule in Battle for Azeroth WoW Classic
      Even though this is not BfA-related, we finally got some news about WoW Classic development in a Watercooler on June 16. You can find more details here.
      Visuals
      Hunters and Warlocks received new spell animations.
      Hunter Spell Animations Warlock Spell Animations Warlock Summon Demon Animations Summoning Stone & Soulwell Animations Zone Previews
      This section contains zone previews of Kul Tiras and Zandalar.
      Arathi Highlands Updated in Preparation for Warfronts High-Resolution Maps of Kul Tiras & Zandalar Drustvar Zone Preview Nazmir Zone Preview (Official) Vol'dun Zone Preview Uther's Tomb Visual Update Uther's Tomb Visual Update #2 Zuldazar City Official Preview Changelog
      July 14
      Added pre-patch release date, Mag'har Orcs zone & scenario steps, pre-patch customization options and more.
      July 11
      Added the official preview of the new WoW Communities feature and the Darkforge Ram preview.
      July 10
      Added map improvements in BfA and Bellular's third Class review about Death Knights.
      July 9
      The hub has been updated with all missing articles.
      June 11
      Added latest talent changes and PvP Azerite traits (Beta Build 26788).
      June 10
      Updated the hub with new mounts, new Beta build coverage, one launch to rule them all, various blue posts & more.
      June 1
      Added Uldir powers and latest Beta Build 26734 talent changes.
      May 31
      Updated the hub with all missing articles.
      May 7
      Added datamined Azerite traits for Build 26530, Heroic Uldir raid testing and PCGamesN interview with John Hight.
      May 4
      Added Legion Artifacts in BfA.
      May 3
      Updated with the latest news and the PvP section.
      April 24
      The hub has been updated with new links to our latest news and previews and Battle for Azeroth Beta is now live!
      April 5
      Blizzard revealed the release date of Battle for Azeroth. We also added the latest information to the hub, including Dark Iron Dwarf & Mag'har Orc playable classes, latest talent updates, Azerite traits, and more!
      March 26
      The hub got updated with a bunch of new articles including new customization options for Blood Elves, talent updates for Alpha Build 26287, new creature models and a post dealing with global cooldowns in Battle for Azeroth.
      March 22
      A new Alpha Build arrived on Battle for Azeroth Alpha realms. Blizzard added the Dark Iron Dwarf racial mount, two Dwarf Paladin Ram mounts and more!
      March 21
      We added our preview of Island Expeditions to the website.
    • By Stan
      Unlike Dark Iron Dwarves, Mag'har Orcs do not come with an own city. Instead, Blizzard updated Orgrimmar's Valley of Honor with a new outpost called Hall of the Brave that will serve the Mag'har Orcs as a base in the coming expansion.
      You can find more Battle for Azeroth news by visiting our Expansion Hub.
      In the recruitment scenario, Mag'har Orcs will fight the Lightbound and flee Draenor with Eitrigg. We found the following scenario steps associated with the event:
      Tyranny of the Light (Mag'har Orcs Unlock Scenario)
      Travel to Beastwatch
      Go to the aid of Beastwatch! It is the site of an impending assault by the Lightbound. The Lightbound
      Defend Beastwatch against the Lightbound assault. Evermorn Hold
      Track down Exarch Orelis in Evermorn Hold. Exarch Orelis
      Defeat the Lightbound Exarch. Report to the Warchief
      Return to Grommash Hellscream at Beastwatch. Defense at Beastwatch Tower
      Use the turret at the top of Beastwatch Tower to defend the Mag'har. Narrow Escape
      Escape Draenor with Eitrigg and the Mag'har. Orders from Grommash
      Await orders from Grommash. Return to the Warchief
      Return to Warchief Hellscream at Beastwatch. Hall of the Brave
      There are plenty of grunts, training dummies and other mobs in the hall. The top floor has two Battlemasters and an Experience Eliminator. Here are some screenshots of the zone.

      Mag'har Orcs will be the first Horde Allied Race in Battle for Azeroth. In order to unlock them, you must complete Horde's War Campaign (Ready for War) that gradually unlocks by increasing reputation with the Honorbound faction.
    • By Starym
      The pre-patch is coming next week and there's even more new stuff to check out. Today we got another addition with players being able to buy specific legendary items from the usual Wakening Essence vendor, and we'll be getting Wakening Essences from all the World Quests and other sources of Artifact Power as well!
      Legion Legendary items will become disabled at Level 115 in Battle for Azeroth. For the latest news check out our Battle for Azeroth Expansion Hub.
      Ythisens (source)
      With the Battle for Azeroth pre-patch, you’ll notice that the vendor who sold tokens that granted a random Legion Legendary item will now allow you to purchase specific Legion Legendaries relevant to your specialization. These are sold for the same cost that the token was sold for previously.
      Battle for Azeroth is just around the corner, so we wanted to take this opportunity to allow players who are trying to complete their Legendary collections a more straightforward way to do so, as well as give or new or returning players a way to pick up some strong items to prepare for leveling.
      These items can be purchased from Arcanomancer Vridiel in Dalaran for 1000 Wakening Essence. To help with this, many sources of Artifact Power will now grant Wakening Essences instead. Enjoy!