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Regal

Resto Healing in WoD

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yeah, I was really hoping the proc shield from the SoO tier two piece bonus would wind up baked into the ability.  ES feels really lackluster compared to other healers' similar abilities.

 

The only fights in highmaul where cloudburst is really realistic are (imo) the butcher and brackenspore; it just takes too much mana to charge it up if you can't rely on a good HR stack to provide relatively cheap throughput.  I got decent results on both those fights by syncing its timer up with butcher's knockback (when you know the whole raid will need healing) and whatever bracken's spore aoe thing is called (heals done to mushrooms help charge it.)  It only really seems to make sense when paired with persistence too; otherwise you can't really use it when you want without sacrificing HST usage.

well i definitely agree that cbt goes really well with persistence.

however I don't think it's only realistic in two fights. it really doesn't take any more mana to charge up than your normal rotation. 

 

Side note, can anyone explain to me how to use warcraftlogs? I would like to contribute my numbers to this thread, but I don't know how sad.png

 

P.S. I'm noticing some trends in talent choices when looking through the logs. Elemental Blast seems to be a more popular choice. I have been getting low on mana for fights that last too long (since I am usually the one slamming out the heals) and I might try elemental blast for the Spirit Increase. But then I'd probably use my EotE procs for Riptide. That would mean I'd definitely want to use HT, another trending talent choice. As much as I love CBT, HT might be the way to go for this expansion. 

Edited by Regal

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P.S. I'm noticing some trends in talent choices when looking through the logs. Elemental Blast seems to be a more popular choice. I have been getting low on mana for fights that last too long (since I am usually the one slamming out the heals) and I might try elemental blast for the Spirit Increase. But then I'd probably use my EotE procs for Riptide. That would mean I'd definitely want to use HT, another trending talent choice. As much as I love CBT, HT might be the way to go for this expansion. 

I would stay with CBT at least for Kargath (N/H). There is no reason to spam CH in this fight - you always have enough time to use UF+HW. I don't like CBT, but I do use it for this fight - it's more efficient than HT here, imo.

 

I will try something different for the Butcher (H) though.

The damage on melee soaking group is insane, while all the rest of raid remain with full health. I will go to melee range (not in range for debuff though) and try to heal soaking group+tanks specifically.

Will try Glyph of Riptide to have 100% uptime of Riptide on 6-7 melee + Conductivity (constant HR on melee) +High Tide (Chain Heal spamming on 6 riptided targets). + Spirit Link Totem. Ancestral Swiftness for faster casts ( I don't think that EotE will be valuable with the Glyph of Riptide and without UF). And I will switch between PE and EB - don't know what would be better yet.

Remember that we should start CH from the person with Earth Shiled (increase the effectiveness of Shaman healing spells on that target by 20%) and Riptide (Chain Heal spell is 25% more effective when the primary target is affected by your Riptide).

Edited by Pandacho
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You can send me PM here on forum for the start smile.png And if it's possible, please log out in your healing gear in Armory and link me some fresh logs from your raid.

Just did it !! Tyvm

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One more thing that worth to be mentioned here regarding mana management in fights.

If you'll get:

1. DMF trinket (+1044 spirit for 20 sec about 18% uptime)

2. Spirit enchant on your weapon (+500 spirit about 35% uptime)

3. Elemental Blast in talents (+1000 spirit for 8 sec about 35% uptime)

4. Mana pots (restore 35K of mana)

I think that your mana management will be much less problematic (still chose your spells wisely).

 

Here you can see a graph of my mana procs during one fight.

Edited by Pandacho

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(still chose your spells wisely).

 

This is the single best piece of advice in this thread.

 

 

3. Elemental Blast in talents (+1000 spirit for 8 sec about 35% uptime)

 

At a 2s cast time and 12sec cooldown, with 8sec duration, you've got a maximum uptime of 57%. Just thought I'd throw that in there for comparison.   :)

 

 

1. DMF trinket (+1044 spirit for 20 sec about 18% uptime)

 

That's a pretty useful thing to know (the uptime, I mean! Was it calculated or is it straight from the log?), but is the +spirit a typo? Looking at it on wowhead, it doesn't say 1044 Spirit!

 

I made a stab at theoretically calculating the uptime of the trinket and got about 16-17% depending on spell choice.

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This is the single best piece of advice in this thread.

 

At a 2s cast time and 12sec cooldown, with 8sec duration, you've got a maximum uptime of 57%. Just thought I'd throw that in there for comparison.   smile.png

That's a pretty useful thing to know (the uptime, I mean! Was it calculated or is it straight from the log?), but is the +spirit a typo? Looking at it on wowhead, it doesn't say 1044 Spirit!

 

From here:

KKIS5fK.gif

 

Concerning Elemental Blast, I know that the maximum uptime is much more, but frankly, when I write advices, I always put some average value that most of the players can reach, not the maximum one. Maybe it's a mistake and I should mention min/average/max? If so, I'll change :)

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I love how much attention this thread has gotten! And so many great ideas. Thank you to everyone for your contributions and keeping this thread going as we face some of the most brutal encounters yet!

 

So with all the tough fights, I've really noticed that blizzard doesn't seem to want us with just one playstyle. There is no "best" you have to get used to all of them so you can switch accordingly. 

It seems to depend largely on the boss fight, but also your fellow teammates. 

No matter how good I got at CBT, it won't always be the best choice even if that's the one I'm best at. 

However, I do believe there is still some versatility to playing. There are certain setups that people seem to use, but there are also variations that seem to be just as effective. Way to go blizz!

 

On a side note, I tried EB to help with mana and it was for the most part useful. However, I found myself not being able to really cast it on c/d since i was usually healing the whole time. I could use it here and there though which definitely did help. 

 

Going to keep trying out different combinations. But once I get less busy, I'm going to start breaking down some of the fight mechanics to draft up some ideas for some "best" strategies in the current raid fights :)

P.S. I encourage anyone to post advice they have for the raid bosses as a Resto Shaman too! It helps us all

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From here:

KKIS5fK.gif

 

 

I admit to being baffled here, because I look at the trinket and the tooltip of the trinket says definitely different values for this. I went to the wowhead page for the trinket and clicked on the buff it applies for different ilvls, and the proc tooltip doesn't change. This would indicate that something is wrong with the tooltip of the proc (rather than the trinket). The trinket as ilvl 640 says +1396 Spirit.

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P.S. I encourage anyone to post advice they have for the raid bosses as a Resto Shaman too! It helps us all

 

Please do this in the dedicated T17 thread here.

 

 

So with all the tough fights, I've really noticed that blizzard doesn't seem to want us with just one playstyle. There is no "best" you have to get used to all of them so you can switch accordingly. 

It seems to depend largely on the boss fight, but also your fellow teammates. 

 

I've been recommending this for years, and yes it's definitely what you should be doing! :) I wish it would sink in for more people.

 

 

On a side note, I tried EB to help with mana and it was for the most part useful. However, I found myself not being able to really cast it on c/d since i was usually healing the whole time. I could use it here and there though which definitely did help. 

 

I'd be interested to see a whole bunch of logs and compare uptimes on different bosses. That could be an interesting theorycraft project for someone with more time than me...  :)

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What about the new RESTORATIVE WAVES ? Whats your thoughts ?

 

I assume you're referring to the change (MMOC link)?

 

It's a flat 4% buff to all our healing, which is quite nice.

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Regal, on 09 Dec 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

So with all the tough fights, I've really noticed that blizzard doesn't seem to want us with just one playstyle. There is no "best" you have to get used to all of them so you can switch accordingly.

It seems to depend largely on the boss fight, but also your fellow teammates.

I've been recommending this for years, and yes it's definitely what you should be doing! smile.png I wish it would sink in for more people.

 

I want to join you, guys, and stress it too.

There is no "best" or "only right" talents, spells or strategies for fights or for raiding'. Apply the tips you are reading in this thread or "Resto tips" thread to your raid setup, healers setup and play style. 

Edited by Pandacho

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In bigger news, the Everburning Candle got a nerf today, to a much saner level of mana regen...

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I assume you're referring to the change (MMOC link)?

 

It's a flat 4% buff to all our healing, which is quite nice.

Yes, that link.

 

I tried to find this Restorative Waves in my spells and passives but didnt find ! The buff is 4% to all ou heals and totems ? Is that right ?

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Yes, that link.

 

I tried to find this Restorative Waves in my spells and passives but didnt find ! The buff is 4% to all ou heals and totems ? Is that right ?

 

It's a passive buff we have as part of the spec. It's always present, you just never see it. Net total is a 4% bonus to "all healing done", but I think that the 50% overrides this for totems. Basically, I think it's just the healing you do as a player.

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Hey guys,

 

This is a fantastic thread.  I haven't played since the end of Wrath and this is my first time raiding primarily as a Resto Shaman.  I'd love to get some expanded discussion on haste for Shaman.  I know that haste is valued very low for every class except Druids by the guys at healercalcs, whereas Stoove has it just behind mastery.

 

I know that Hamlet has used the reasoning that haste gives you essentially the same amount of HPS as any other stat for all healers (aside from the predetermined boost stat that each class gets) except druids.  And that you should typically choose the other stats because they don't have the negative factor of consuming mana faster.

 

My question is whether or not this is true for resto shaman who choose to use the glyph of riptide as a significant portion of their healing.  I'll use Ko'ragh as an example.  It's a fairly long fight and using riptide to blanket the raid has worked really well for me to conserve mana and time.  In all of our attempts last week I was using HT instead of CBT, but I'm sure I wasn't getting the use out of HT that I should have been and will probably try out CBT this week.

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NAphf7cR4yMJmBzV#type=healing

There's a link to our logs for Ko'ragh.

 

As you can see, riptide, healing rain, healing stream totem, and healing tide (which I used in conjunction with ascendance) are accounting for about ~53% of my healing.  There's definitely some improvements to be made in my spell usage, but that's still a significant amount of healing that is directly affected by haste.

 

What are your thoughts?

Edited by Dreamshock

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This is a fantastic thread.  I haven't played since the end of Wrath and this is my first time raiding primarily as a Resto Shaman.  I'd love to get some expanded discussion on haste for Shaman.  I know that haste is valued very low for every class except Druids by the guys at healercalcs, whereas Stoove has it just behind mastery.

 

Hey there Dreamshock, thanks for your comment and questions. First off, we've discussed the stat weights I derived and calculated in relation to Haste here. I've not spoken to Hamlet about it, I'm not sure he's read my work, but I have a friendly disagreement with them over the whole Haste weighting. Essentially, I contend that it's important to start ones discussion from as strict a quantitative setting as possible, and to then interpret that when applying to stats. Hamlet's statements strike me as working the other way around, which isn't the way I think it should be done.

 

Yes, there is a way to incorporate mana considerations into a more quantitative approach as I derived, but it's nontrivial and hence I haven't finished the work yet. Suffice it to say that it's an admittedly complicated thing to look at in detail. :)

 

 

I know that Hamlet has used the reasoning that haste gives you essentially the same amount of HPS as any other stat for all healers (aside from the predetermined boost stat that each class gets) except druids.  And that you should typically choose the other stats because they don't have the negative factor of consuming mana faster.

 

I disagree with this on two points; 1) the HPS gain from Haste is distinctly larger than that of Multistrike, Crit, or Versatility and 2) nobody has so far discussed whether the marginal mana loss from (say) one extra piece of Haste gear is meaningful to us in any way.

 

 

My question is whether or not this is true for resto shaman who choose to use the glyph of riptide as a significant portion of their healing.  I'll use Ko'ragh as an example.  It's a fairly long fight and using riptide to blanket the raid has worked really well for me to conserve mana and time.  In all of our attempts last week I was using HT instead of CBT, but I'm sure I wasn't getting the use out of HT that I should have been and will probably try out CBT this week.

 

Glyphing Riptide really reduces its mana efficiency hugely, so it's probably less efficient than you think it is (for context: Riptide (no Glyph) + Healing Surge is slightly more mana efficient than unglyphed Riptide).

 

Haste rating (not considering mana matters) is unaffected in terms of rotation or spell choice, so in that respect I wouldn't say your stat priority should change.

 

I hope you find that useful!

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Hello all wonderful restoshammies! I have been healing 5/7 heroic (sitting out first boss and last boss due to logging in late both days for raids >_>) and i have been trying out several talents.. Since im a person who usually in the beginning starts with just testing i have been reading your comments and topics today.

My questions are pretty simple and maybe someone have already asked it by i might have missed it..

1. Is it any use in using elemental blast in heroic/mythic? i found it useful on some heavyhealing fights due to burning alot of mana and gaining it back + getting 1k mastery most of the time.
2. is the glyphed riptide worth using when you are not having high tide and are people using it for when they got the high tide talent?
3.  Do people use ancestral swiftness or echoes of the elements? i used eoe alot on the beta but i havent really tried it out on live
and lastly 4. what are you guys spending your time at when you are popping ascendance nowadays?

 

forgot to ask aswell, what trinkets do you think are gonna be bis for us until blackrock foundry comes?

Edited by fluttershyxd

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1. Is it any use in using elemental blast in heroic/mythic? i found it useful on some heavyhealing fights due to burning alot of mana and gaining it back + getting 1k mastery most of the time.

2. is the glyphed riptide worth using when you are not having high tide and are people using it for when they got the high tide talent?

3.  Do people use ancestral swiftness or echoes of the elements? i used eoe alot on the beta but i havent really tried it out on live

and lastly 4. what are you guys spending your time at when you are popping ascendance nowadays?

 

forgot to ask aswell, what trinkets do you think are gonna be bis for us until blackrock foundry comes?

1. I use it for mana gaining and I don't have mana problems.I have about 32% EB uptime during the fight. Can't always cast it on CD due to heavy movement and constant healing on most of the fights.

2. Glyphed Riptide not worth using  when you are not having High Tide. Normally I use Glyph together with the talent.

3. Both AS and EotE. I use AS with HT and Glyph of Riptide. EotE without Glyph and with CBT totem.

4. HR and CH

5. Wasn't really interested meanwhile, but Stoove made a table in his blog here.

 

Today's logs are here.

Talents used for Mar'gok (N):

Astral Shift, Call of Elements, Ancestral Swiftness, Rushing Streams, Elemental Blast, High Tide

Glyphs: Riptide, Rushing Streams, Healing Wave.

Edited by Pandacho

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So i will have my guess that its worth upgrading the inscripttrinket to 3 of 3 and use it even in blackrock? i wasnt really a fan of the trinkets in this highmaul raid so i had to ask :/

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The 665 world drop (Everburning Candle) is easily the best trinket you'll get before Blackrock, and the 3/3 Winged Hourglass is a pretty close second to that. :(

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2/7 N with 10 members. Wiped multiple times hitting 10 minute enrages on Tectus and Brackenspore without a death in the raid. This means we 3 healers kept the raid up on Tectus and Brack for 10 minutes, probably two of the hardest fights on healers as far as I've seen.

 

My thoughts in general on healing in WOD - as of right now it is all about mana regen. Everyone is crunching stats super hard and trying to determine best in slot items. I think this is mostly unnecessary. Mana regen for shamans seems to come down to a single question - how often do you HAVE to use Healing Surge?

 

I did my first WOD heroic Sunday after release with a full group of freshly 610 players. With 610 ilvl tanks I had to continually spam Healing Surge to keep them up and went OOM pretty much right at the end of every fight. Now when doing heroics most of the time I can go an entire run without using Healing Surge once and my mana holds up fine. I often end boss fights with more than 50% mana remaining (though the same doesn't apply to Highmaul).

 

When it comes to mana efficiency beyond trying not to use Healing Surge unless you absolutely have to I use the following few rules of thumb:

1 Riptide (unglyphed) and Healing Stream Totem (assuming Rushing Streams is taken) are our most mana efficient heals that are regulated by a cooldown so these should be used on cooldown at all times (don't refresh Riptide on CD, but do use it on an alternate target taking damage over sending a Surge or Wave their way - try to avoid even this if you have 10s+ of HST left).

2 Call of the Elements allows 3x usage of Healing Stream Totem every minute. This is a huge efficiency gain. Use CotE after every HST immediately and plant the next HST the second the first expires.

3 Keeping Healing Rain up on the tank (even if he's the only one taking damage) softens the spikes of damage he takes, allowing usage of Healing Wave to keep him level/topped without being forced to use Healing Surge. This nets an efficiency gain if you can keep from using Healing Surge.

 

I do use Cloudburst totem. I agree it is not for beginners, but can produce some amazing efficiency if you guess incoming damage correctly. The way I look at priority while CBT is up is that just spending the CBT cooldown nets more heals for the mana then not using it. Most of the time while it is up I continue my rotation as normal with focus on not using Surge or Chain Heal, no need to spam to get more use of CBT, just getting it's efficiency helps - that being said coupling it with Ascendance produces amazing results (Brackenspore - Infested Spores when a healing mushroom has been wasted, anyone?).

I've toyed a bit with Unleash Life and Unleashed Fury. My initial feeling is that using the GCD on UL is a net loss as I find myself having to follow it up with a Healing Surge often. I know the math doesn't work out that way, it should be a net gain when focusing on heal produced per mana used. I feel like I gobble a lot of mana up for the healing I get done when I UL and Surge instead of just spamming Healing Wave during that time.

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Nice post!

 

I've toyed a bit with Unleash Life and Unleashed Fury. My initial feeling is that using the GCD on UL is a net loss as I find myself having to follow it up with a Healing Surge often. I know the math doesn't work out that way, it should be a net gain when focusing on heal produced per mana used. I feel like I gobble a lot of mana up for the healing I get done when I UL and Surge instead of just spamming Healing Wave during that time.

 

The maths actually does work out that way! At least, it does for UL. When you take UF, which I highly recommend, it's rotationally better to use UF on cooldown than to not use it on cooldown. Full theorycraft post on this coming just before Christmas.

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