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Guest Coronus

It seems a bit strange that the guide opens up by saying that Sylvanas is an assassin, since she's a specialist and doesn't play like most assassins.

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It seems a bit strange that the guide opens up by saying that Sylvanas is an assassin, since she's a specialist and doesn't play like most assassins.

 

Played her so much I forgot she was a Specialist haha

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it\s a great guide, after reading this and practicing more with sylvanas I can carry my entire team.

It's good to have this kind of champion that can do it all and have a high skill cap as well

Edited by Fransoa
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On the level 16 talents, Blood for Blood is "situational" on the icons but under the "recommended" section in the explanations. (And its explanation is outdated.)

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On the level 16 talents, Blood for Blood is "situational" on the icons but under the "recommended" section in the explanations. (And its explanation is outdated.)

Thanks, will have this fixed!

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Guest Xebenatros

This guide before it came out, I had this near exact build and it is amazing, hell, blowing up a lane of minions with the ultimate+unstable poison combo, especially if an enemy hero is in the middle of it, is just a great execution and awesome to do. That being said, when is a Abathur guide coming out? I've been experimenting with Abathur after buying him and I just cannot seem to stick with any sort of build, Siege, Symbiote, or some mix, I don't know anymore, I would LOVE to see a proper Abathur build at some point, please & thank you!

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This guide before it came out, I had this near exact build and it is amazing, hell, blowing up a lane of minions with the ultimate+unstable poison combo, especially if an enemy hero is in the middle of it, is just a great execution and awesome to do. That being said, when is a Abathur guide coming out? I've been experimenting with Abathur after buying him and I just cannot seem to stick with any sort of build, Siege, Symbiote, or some mix, I don't know anymore, I would LOVE to see a proper Abathur build at some point, please & thank you!

Hi Xebenatros!

 

I'm actually working on Abathur at this very moment, so expect to see it this week.

 

As for how to build Abathur, the tl;dr will recommend Pressurized Glands, Adrenal Overload, Evolve Monstrosity, Soma Transference, Envenomed Spikes, Hivemind.

 

Hope this helps!

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Guest Blackstab

This build is overall terrible on Sylv, I think you're wasting the  talents, to do just the same as Shadow Dagger. Barbed shot is the worst talent on tier 1 besides corruption, with the wind provides poke, safety and damage, and lost soul provide more damage, and control on minions and tower.
Envenom may be fun on quickmatch, but she's not an assassin, you're not focusing on her strength, paralysis is the best on this tier, as it just freeze enemy forts and minions 2 seconds.

Unstable poison is a strong laning tool, but if you want to make a teamfight carry clearly, the best option is remorseless as it provides overall more damage. If full laning, unstable, otherwise the go to talent is Remorseless. You can use life drain on map like Dragon because of the sustain it provides.
I agree on evasive fire and Bolt of the storm (lot of survival and poke, must have for split push), of course cold embrace, and Bolt of the storm,  even if on map like Battle of eternity,  splinter shot can kite a lot, depends on playstyle.
 

The 3 first talents have a huge impact, and your build is really non competitve to me, I hope you can see why in all respect

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This build is overall terrible on Sylv, I think you're wasting the  talents, to do just the same as Shadow Dagger. Barbed shot is the worst talent on tier 1 besides corruption, with the wind provides poke, safety and damage, and lost soul provide more damage, and control on minions and tower.
Envenom may be fun on quickmatch, but she's not an assassin, you're not focusing on her strength, paralysis is the best on this tier, as it just freeze enemy forts and minions 2 seconds.

Unstable poison is a strong laning tool, but if you want to make a teamfight carry clearly, the best option is remorseless as it provides overall more damage. If full laning, unstable, otherwise the go to talent is Remorseless. You can use life drain on map like Dragon because of the sustain it provides.
I agree on evasive fire and Bolt of the storm (lot of survival and poke, must have for split push), of course cold embrace, and Bolt of the storm,  even if on map like Battle of eternity,  splinter shot can kite a lot, depends on playstyle.
 

The 3 first talents have a huge impact, and your build is really non competitve to me, I hope you can see why in all respect

For a lot of your points, you don't explain why you think X is better than Y. I'll address the points you bring up. Please keep in mind I go into great detail why I pick and why I don't pick each talent. You can find why here.

 

>Envenom may be fun on quickmatch, but she's not an assassin, you're not focusing on her strength

 

Being an "Assassin" or "Specialist" is arbitrary. Sylvanas' role is to provide damage with good pushing power. 

 

>paralysis is the best on this tier, as it just freeze enemy forts and minions 2 seconds.

 

Why? How is that beneficial? If you are attacking a structure, it's going to be permanently stunned anyway, the 2 seconds is wasted.

 

>if you want to make a teamfight carry clearly, the best option is remorseless as it provides overall more damage.

 

Yes, it provides more damage, but only very little. It gives you 1 additional Basic Attack every several seconds, a relatively meaningless amount. Unstable Poison provides you with more benefits than Remorseless.

 

>You can use life drain on map like Dragon because of the sustain it provides

 

It's better to clear waves than restore a tiny amount of health (which your healer should be doing anyway).

 

>must have for split push

 

You should almost never be split pushing.

 

>splinter shot can kite a lot

 

How does Splint Shot kite at all?

 

>your build is really non competitve to me

 

Are you a competitive player? Almost none of the talents you are suggesting are used competitively. The build I have provided includes 95% of all variance in the competitive scene (for Sylvanas).

 

>I hope you can see why in all respect

 

While I enjoy having my views challenged (helping me to see things differently), I have to completely disagree with every point you have brought up. Again, please reference the talent guide, I've written out detailed explanations for every single one of Sylvanas' talents.

 

If you have anymore questions, please feel free to ask :)

 

Srey

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Guest Zeph

 

 

This build is overall terrible on Sylv, I think you're wasting the  talents, to do just the same as Shadow Dagger. Barbed shot is the worst talent on tier 1 besides corruption, with the wind provides poke, safety and damage, and lost soul provide more damage, and control on minions and tower.

Envenom may be fun on quickmatch, but she's not an assassin, you're not focusing on her strength, paralysis is the best on this tier, as it just freeze enemy forts and minions 2 seconds.

Unstable poison is a strong laning tool, but if you want to make a teamfight carry clearly, the best option is remorseless as it provides overall more damage. If full laning, unstable, otherwise the go to talent is Remorseless. You can use life drain on map like Dragon because of the sustain it provides.

I agree on evasive fire and Bolt of the storm (lot of survival and poke, must have for split push), of course cold embrace, and Bolt of the storm,  even if on map like Battle of eternity,  splinter shot can kite a lot, depends on playstyle.

 

The 3 first talents have a huge impact, and your build is really non competitve to me, I hope you can see why in all respect

For a lot of your points, you don't explain why you think X is better than Y. I'll address the points you bring up. Please keep in mind I go into great detail why I pick and why I don't pick each talent. You can find why here.

 

>Envenom may be fun on quickmatch, but she's not an assassin, you're not focusing on her strength

 

Being an "Assassin" or "Specialist" is arbitrary. Sylvanas' role is to provide damage with good pushing power. 

 

>paralysis is the best on this tier, as it just freeze enemy forts and minions 2 seconds.

 

Why? How is that beneficial? If you are attacking a structure, it's going to be permanently stunned anyway, the 2 seconds is wasted.

 

>if you want to make a teamfight carry clearly, the best option is remorseless as it provides overall more damage.

 

Yes, it provides more damage, but only very little. It gives you 1 additional Basic Attack every several seconds, a relatively meaningless amount. Unstable Poison provides you with more benefits than Remorseless.

 

>You can use life drain on map like Dragon because of the sustain it provides

 

It's better to clear waves than restore a tiny amount of health (which your healer should be doing anyway).

 

>must have for split push

 

You should almost never be split pushing.

 

>splinter shot can kite a lot

 

How does Splint Shot kite at all?

 

>your build is really non competitve to me

 

Are you a competitive player? Almost none of the talents you are suggesting are used competitively. The build I have provided includes 95% of all variance in the competitive scene (for Sylvanas).

 

>I hope you can see why in all respect

 

While I enjoy having my views challenged (helping me to see things differently), I have to completely disagree with every point you have brought up. Again, please reference the talent guide, I've written out detailed explanations for every single one of Sylvanas' talents.

 

If you have anymore questions, please feel free to ask smile.png

 

Srey

 

Srey, you ripped this poor guys statements to pieces..

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Guest Infinit3PI

My big questions are on the level 1 and level 7 talent choices. I feel like unstable poison and barbed shot provide much the same benefit-better waveclear, and so they are largely redundant. Generally, as the overall talent choices are weaker on level 7, I prefer to take unstable there but take with the wind at level 1. The bonus range puts sylvanas in a much safer position, especially considering how squishy she is. At level 7 you should be able to clear waves extremely quickly anyways, even without barbed shot. Other than that, I do really enjoy this build.

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Guest Kroshak

My big questions are on the level 1 and level 7 talent choices. I feel like unstable poison and barbed shot provide much the same benefit-better waveclear, and so they are largely redundant. Generally, as the overall talent choices are weaker on level 7, I prefer to take unstable there but take with the wind at level 1. The bonus range puts sylvanas in a much safer position, especially considering how squishy she is. At level 7 you should be able to clear waves extremely quickly anyways, even without barbed shot. Other than that, I do really enjoy this build.

You, in my point of view, are seeing this in a simple way, meaning you only see the "damage", see the bg picture, if you can proc the explosion faster you can clear the wave a lot more easier, meaning your wave of minions will push with a lot more health, more ammo is used to take them down, take in mind that im considering presure from the enemy team and you dont have that much of a window to be able to stunlock the towers because of them.

 

Now for the interesting part, if you are able to take down the minion wave WITH a hero inside, its better to do it quick so that they take the damage.

 

This are some points of view, maybe there are a lot more out there

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Guest Anastasia

Thank you for the coolest guide ever, are you going to update it considering new heroes and map came to life?

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Guest Infinit3PI

My big questions are on the level 1 and level 7 talent choices. I feel like unstable poison and barbed shot provide much the same benefit-better waveclear, and so they are largely redundant. Generally, as the overall talent choices are weaker on level 7, I prefer to take unstable there but take with the wind at level 1. The bonus range puts sylvanas in a much safer position, especially considering how squishy she is. At level 7 you should be able to clear waves extremely quickly anyways, even without barbed shot. Other than that, I do really enjoy this build.

You, in my point of view, are seeing this in a simple way, meaning you only see the "damage", see the bg picture, if you can proc the explosion faster you can clear the wave a lot more easier, meaning your wave of minions will push with a lot more health, more ammo is used to take them down, take in mind that im considering presure from the enemy team and you dont have that much of a window to be able to stunlock the towers because of them.

Now for the interesting part, if you are able to take down the minion wave WITH a hero inside, its better to do it quick so that they take the damage.

This are some points of view, maybe there are a lot more out there

Thanks for the help. I see your reasoning here, I guess I'll have to try it out a bit more.

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Thank you for the coolest guide ever, are you going to update it considering new heroes and map came to life?

Thanks! Yes, the guide will be continuously updated as things are added.

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Guest Joe

You are on CRACK. Envenom is an AWEFUL talent! Paralysis with overwhelming affliction adds a 25% slow to enemies  for 2 seconds. Unlike withering fire, it's aoe and can be used with ANY of her abilities. Trash sylv noobs depress me. Paralysis also allows for farther travelling of the black arrows to enemies, so if theyre on the other side of a large creep wave chances are your dagger will have time to spread to them

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Guest Nosreme

I like this build but had three comments that I'd like to make.  First, the 2 sec stun is not that great on towers, sure.  But do you know what it is great on?  Minions waves and camps.  I can easily solo merc camps with that talent because it keeps them all paralyzed longer when i shadow dagger or banshee wave them,  Therefore, I don't get hit as often.  There's where the talent shines, not on towers.

 

2nd, you dismiss the healing of Life Drain, saying that one can just run to the well to heal.  But I can tell you that chucking a dagger at a minions wave, especially on a big one like on Spiders provides tremendous healing, even during a team fight or if I'm just running by.  You assumed I'm only using that in team fights, but the reality is that minion waves are common, and it's free healing, even during a team fight. I have gone from low health to 3/4 by doing this, which saves time not having to run back to a well, which might be on CD anyway.

 

Finally, I do agree that Bolt of the Storm is a great talent, and should be considered every time.  However, I have switched to Fury for a couple reasons.  First off, you already have 30% increased speed from Evasive Fire, and if you took With the Wind, people have a very hard time killing you already, especially with Banshee Wave.  But what Fury gives you is an insane ability to clear even 4 man merc camps in seconds.  It's truly scary how fast she can cap those with this talent.  It also really helps against the spiders, bosses, and anything else that isn't a hero, like forts and cores.  Yes, sylvanas already does this well, but this turns her into super girl and this talent is well worth it.  This one is definitely only a preference, Bolt is a fine choice too.

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Guest FrederickPlatinum

Hey Srey, 

I enjoyed the guide and I managed to try the build in QM. I was playing Sylvanas in a complete different way and I found pretty hard to move to your spec, but I gave it a try and it worked well.

I'd like to ask you a couple of clarifications regarding the choice of a couple of talents. In order to do so I have to explain my usual build and the way I played her first. (I know that a few talents might sounds really bad but they change accoriding to the map.

Build:

1. With the Wind (exceptionally Lost Soul, in TF maps like Eternal Conflict)
4. Ranger's Ambush
7. Life Drain
10. Wailing Arrow
13. Evasive Fire
16. Cold Embrace
20. Bolt of the Storm (exceptionally Fury of the Storm if the fight needs quick bruise camp farming or lane cleaning, more important in late game than early)

Overall, my plays with Sylvanas were focused on half hero damage and damage support for assassins/tanks and half lane presence. Her damage is already high and because she cannot stand stuns I normally increase the range of the arrows to be safer.
Ranger ambush is great for escape (and synergizes with Evasive Fire) as well as for chase and gives you enough damage to finish enemies instantly.
Life drains gives you great sustainability and grants you a lot of time that you can spend in lane without recalling. It's a bit tricky because some maps don't have enough minions, but 5/6 enemies are enough and is a great counter to dots (like Lunara, Xul, Stitches or Nazeebo).


The Unstable Poison combo is pretty amazing when enemy heroes are surrounded by a bunch of minions (maps like Tomb of the Spider Queen are perfect for it), I only had to change my positioning to make that talent work at best. You play around them and I normally pick talents that works around my play style.
Anyway, everything was good but I do not understand the Envenom talent. You said that is 80% more damage than all other talents can grant you, and that's fine. Unfortunately, the CD is 60 seconds. Which is a lot for that amount of damage, while Ranger's Ambush only has an 8/10 seconds CD, the overall damage seems to be pretty increased on that way and you won't have the chance to waste a key because Poison grants enemy enough time to escape, wait for CD, get healed by a friendly champion and so on).

The range of poison is also very short and I found really hard to poison enemies and survive, getting too close with Sylvanas is dangerous.

That's my only point, any suggestion on how to make envenom work at best? 

I know that the way I use it might sounds crazy and I'm definitely moving from Life Drain to Unstable Poison as it grants more damage overall. Just won't be able to learn how to use that 1 key!

Great job anyway, the guide is really accurate.

Cheers!

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I want to make some comments on the new update. 

 

I'm ok with the Wailing arrow build.  I think its a good general build.

 

Mind control, i think is a bit weird.  Those talents don't necessarily play to mind controls strengths, so you could really pick either heroic using the 'wailing arrow build'.  

 

First (lvl 1) Paralysis, is only useful for pushing buildings and camps.  So its more of a 'pushing talent' while Overflowing quiver is a quick wave clear talent.

 

Next, the synergies with lvl 4 and 16 talents, If you're going with the slow at 16, you really should pick up the extra range on Q at 7 (With the Wind).  It just makes sure you're sticking to your target or getting them away from you. This is only overridden if you pick up the level 7 talent Barbed shot, where Withering Barrage will make more sense (again good wave clear)

 

I don't see a reason to pick unstable poison any more since this nerfed version competes with barbed shot. Unstable poison is only good in lanes, while barbed shot is good on even more things that poison would not be.  With the lvl 1, 4, and 7 talents in the 'wailing arrow build' That is always going to be better overall utility and wave clear than unstable poison. 

 

Back to Withering Barrage vs With the Wind, usually I'll always take Withering Barrage, but on smaller maps that don't need much lane presence, or with team mates soaking lanes better than I can, I will take With the Wind becasue it makes 16 better.

 

Lastly, I can see your reasons for lvl 13 talent choices.. Though I personally still would much rather Will of the Forsaken with mind control to try to stop a potential stun or even outplay an Illidan hunt.

 

 

In conclusion: 
Your Wailing Arrow build work well for both heroics, but I feel the MC build is misleading and doesn't synergies well with other talents.

 

(7)With the Wind works best with (13)Overwhelming Affliction, though it can do well with (13)Evasive Fire

(7)Withering Barrage works best with (13)Evasive Fire and (7)Barbed Shot

 

(1)Paralysis doesn't work well with any other talent, but (1)Overflowing Quiver doesn't do that much either (maybe only with (7)Barbed Shot).  Paralysis should really just be a niche talent for team fighting under structures.

 

(13)Will of the forsaken should possibly be a (?) with Mind Control to stop you from getting stunned out of it.

 

Hope this helps, ask any questions I may not have explained correctly.

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I want to make some comments on the new update. 

 

 

Mind control, i think is a bit weird.  Those talents don't necessarily play to mind controls strengths, so you could really pick either heroic using the 'wailing arrow build'.  

 

First (lvl 1) Paralysis, is only useful for pushing buildings and camps.  So its more of a 'pushing talent' while Overflowing quiver is a quick wave clear talent.

 

 

 

That is not true. Paralysis works with Overwhelming Affliction, which is the major reason I recommend picking these two talents together. 

 

 

 

 

Next, the synergies with lvl 4 and 16 talents, If you're going with the slow at 16, you really should pick up the extra range on Q at 7 (With the Wind).  It just makes sure you're sticking to your target or getting them away from you. This is only overridden if you pick up the level 7 talent Barbed shot, where Withering Barrage will make more sense (again good wave clear)

 

 

 

Was meant to go for With the Wind indeed. Will correct. 

 

 

 

 

I don't see a reason to pick unstable poison any more since this nerfed version competes with barbed shot. Unstable poison is only good in lanes, while barbed shot is good on even more things that poison would not be.  With the lvl 1, 4, and 7 talents in the 'wailing arrow build' That is always going to be better overall utility and wave clear than unstable poison. 

 

Unstable Poison still clears Minion waves faster than Barbed Shot, which allows you to rotate more quickly. Also, it is more efficient against enormous Minion waves, which becomes particularly important on maps like Tomb of the Spider Queen. 

 

 

 

 

Lastly, I can see your reasons for lvl 13 talent choices.. Though I personally still would much rather Will of the Forsaken with mind control to try to stop a potential stun or even outplay an Illidan hunt.

 

 

 

Will of the Forsaken is terrible in my opinion. A 60-second cooldown on a talent that has virtually no use while out of team fight. Will of the Forsaken is an escape-overkill, as one Haunting Wave should be enough to get you to safety. Furthermore, careful positioning before casting Mind Control makes Will of the Forsaken redundant. 

 

Last but not least, Overwhelming Affliction is fantastic if used with Mind Control. If the mind-controlled survives the duration of Mind Control, you can immediately slow it tremendously while it is still surround by your allies. 

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You have points on all of them. Especially the one about Paralysis, I didn't take that duration into account for the slow.

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