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Valkyr

Strategy for Update and New Format

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Hey, with the community buzzing with the latest format news, I bet it has shaken up many people's crafting, disenchanting, pack buying and gold amassing strategy. So wondering what strategy are people following? I guessing it would depend on if you plan on which format you want to play in (or if you wanna play both). 

 

Edit: thought I'd mention some strategies I was contemplating. 

 

1. Collect all your gold and dust for update and then see whats what. May result in the next two months to be a bit boring and stagnant.

 

2. spend gold on classic since that will remain no matter what. Any cards you get which end up being nerfed will be equal to free dust for crafting (either from classic or new set)

 

3. Save gold and dust for new expansion even though it will retire in 2 years.

 

4. Spend gold on GvG to complete collection or get that particular card for Wild instead of having to craft it.

 

5. Get TgT since it will become relevant past update.

 

What are you all thinking?

Edited by Valkyr
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Option 3 and the two year shelf-life bothers me. Same for option 5 since TGT gets 'rotated out' next year. Btw, that's a great euphemism. Makes me think of the Carrousel from Logan's Run (showing my age badly).

 

I'm very reluctant to spend gold or dust right now and leaning towards option 1.

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@chacal I know. But the 2 month wait to expand my play options bothers me. I might get tired from the game by then... :/

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I think best value if your classic collection is not complete (and if you wanna focus on standard mode),

 

1) Spend as much gold as possible on classic packs. (I am putting aside 1.5k gold for new expansion and any additional gold is spent on classic packs)

2) Retain all copies of cards that you got in those packs even if you have 4-5 copies of it. i.e. do not use the auto-disenchant feature.

3) Do not disenchant any classic cards and do not spend any dust. You never know which ones get nerfed/changed and then offer a full refund. Especially notorious ones like FoN, BGH, Alex, Antonidas, Knife Juggler etc amd most other Druid classic cards.

 

This way you would not only improve your classic collection which stays forever, but also have potential to get full refund on as many cards as possible which is great in the long run.

I also believe the new expansion might not have too many cards in the meta decks. At the most maybe 4-5 cards from that set will be in included in a meta deck which can be easily crafted.

 

Hope this helps...

Edited by sc47
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Saving your classic extras is definitely a good idea. I don't know why, but I hadn't hit auto disenchant for a long while. I usually do it after each pack opening session.

 

The whole logic behind banning sets for standard is to make sure more than a few cards make impact in the meta from new expansions. Plus since many cards are losing usage in standard once update hits, new expansion will end up having many cards that will be of use, as opposed to how things went down for TgT. Plus blizzard has said this expansion will be bigger than previous ones. so i don't know if 1.5k will be enough... but dividing gold between classic and new expansion is definitely a good idea!

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I will go with option 6: get pissed off and stop playing HearthStone for a few months (anyway, anyone up for a War Thunder platoon?).

 

Actually, if a new deck type is created, the new cards will have a lot of room to go in - up to 29 of them. This can be seen with Renodecks, where a lot of different cards see play and therefore I believe banning expansion is just Blizzard's greed. Also, if a lot of cards is removed, that means less tech cards and this will result in meta being less able to "fix itself".

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Option 3 for myself.  I don't have every card in the other expansions or Classic, but opening packs recently has resulted in just a lot of dust.  I've got all the commons, most of the rares and a few epics with a scattering of legendaries.  Crafting is really the only way to get what I'm looking for anymore.  So saving whatever gold I can between now and the launch of the new expansion so I can get as much of it right away as possible.  Didn't do that last expansion, or adventure, and I was having trouble keeping up.

 

One thing I did learn is I doubt I'll craft another legendary from any set except Classic.  Dr. Boom is the one and only I crafted due to it's use in any class, but now that it's being retired, that's a lot of dust I could have used elsewhere.

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@mursilis The way I figure, Ill have to buy the new set regardless of which mode I wanna play in. If I'm not happy with cards being retired I'll go play wild and the new boom status legendary will still be viable in it. I hope... In any case, Im gonna save my gold until I start getting real bored, and then buy a classic pack here and there. Im not gonna craft anything until new expansion and he awaited classic nerf. After that I'll focus on crafting whatever good legendary remains from classic set. There are plenty in it that I don't have. Gold may go towards the new expansion or classic depending on the meta. 

 

Update: I was thinking it might be best to buy some classic packs until it hit the pity counter threshold (i was at 10 packs without legendary on classic only). Before I even bought my next pack i got the spectator quest. Lo and behold, the reward pack got me a golden Ragnaros!

Edited by Valkyr

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People seem to freak out over the planned obsolescence (sp?)  of Hearthstone cards. In all reality, I don't see the issue with tournaments having Standard rules. There are many things to hold in consideration of this feature. In casual play, this feature changes nothing for established players, already having Naxx and GvG. They can play wherever their heart's wish. New players have the ability to grow easily through Standard format because there will be no need to worry about some of the destructive cards that the (soon to be) phased out cards brought to the game. Standard format and tournaments will keep Hearthstone relevant, as there will be constant growth and evolution. No more having to worry about long-standing formats taking over brackets. This also will free up development from having to beat cards from previous releases, as with time this would lead to inflation and the general worthlessness of the expansions before it. Now we could have the release of similar style cards, but with different abilities that will lead to new play metas. Just look at LoE. The legendaries it gave us have improved Hearthstone for the better, wouldn't you say? Reno pushed for single/low duplicate decks. Finley allows the change in hero power, giving us the chance to play a non-standard style, like giving the Hunter's power to those who wish to use an aggro deck. Elise gives players a little bonus, just by drawing cards. Brann puts Battlecry minions back into the spotlight, as their sub-curve stats are made up by their doubled ability. Finally, Rafaam gave us a finisher combo that WE could choose. Have no board control? ZOMBIES. Need a little more power for otk? Have a +10/10! Want to enrage, trigger some other ability, or just clear the board of your opponents annoying Murlocs? Take this 10 damage and throw it everywhere :D. In summary, standardization will be a benefit to all of Hearthstone. The phasing out of older cards from competitive play will actually keep them relevant for the general community, as the developers will not have to BEAT the old to advance the new, all they need is something different. Isn't that why you love Hearthstone? Nothing is just quite like it :)

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Just save your dust/gold until the expansion hits and don't go dusting cards for no reason. You don't know what cards will be released or which will still be viable after it. Also, once you actually play standard you may or may not like it, so it's possible you will still be playing wild, where your GvG/naxx collection will be usable.

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@n4p4l44: It actually changes a lot for current players. Some players put effort into getting Naxxramas and GvG cards just to learn later that they won't be able to use them in the "main format". If players wish to use them in Wild, the game will be unbalanced and most probably not fun to play.

Destructive cards such as FoN, which will still exist, Kill Command, which will still exist, Antonidas, who will still exist, Tirion (yeah, still in the game) or Shredder? I mean, common card is not a thing new players worry about! Boom does get removed, but that's pretty much it.

Similar style but with new abilities? How are they even similar?

I wouldn't call Finley a card that made meta better. Aggro meta is not fun in my opinion. Elise sees play in one type of deck, and that type of deck sees no play anyway. Brann is used in battlecry shaman, which is inferior to aggro shaman, and mill rogue, which is a deck that I hate with passion. Reno decks are nice, but other than that, meh.

If you play Rafaam on an empty board to regain board control with zombies, you lose. The turn you play him, you gain a single minion. The next turn, you kill one minion and play the zombies. And only then you can attack with zombies. That means that your opponent would have to have almost no damage on board. The +10/+10 is one of the worst combos. You will have to play Alexstasza, Rafaam and the Lantern to get "OTK". this OTK will take 3 turns! Freeze mage takes 2, patron warrior used to take one, combo druid takes one and Rafaam takes.. 3? No, thank you. You spend 2 turns to clear a board just to have your side of board almost empty while you opponent will start to fill his board again. The tempo loss is insane.

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@positiv2 I see your point, but again the players who enter Blizzard sponsored/approved tournaments aren't the general Hearthstone audience. Most players will stick to Wild format rather than edit their play style. You under estimate Finley. You can use his ability to change Hunter's ability into a better control. You can't blame people for using the LoE abilities for aggro use. They just want to get the match over with as fast as possible. As for Rafaam, I agree that he is the worst LoE legendary. I was just trying to come up with a positive outlook on him following my blanket statement on the others in his class :lol: As for your comment on "OTK", I tend to use it for fast combo kills since people know what OTK is. There are very few LITERAL OTK strategy, as they all require setup, so getting nitpicky on my use of the term is a little moot. Back to the topic at hand: the new format. Think of it as two paths: competitive and casual. Competitive players HAVE to adapt. Sticking to long standing decks with well known defects is counter-intuitive to competitive play. Only competitive players have to worry about Standard format. If someone doesn't want to lose their investment in GvG and Naxx, they can easily play in Wild. No need to get all doom prophet over an update that will legitimize the future of competitive Hearthstone. And finally your worries of high powered Classic cards are not well founded. Devs have firmly stated that they are not afraid to nerf the original release cards as needed. FoN OTK (or "fast combo kill" if you wish to argue that point) may not stick around as they may nerf its effect, maybe dropping the cost down to 4 or 5 mana but also eliminating one of the Treants. I do hold faith in the devs to control the meta as such that one specific deck type does not over run all of Hearthstone, as made clear by the nerfing of Warsong Commander to kill off the simple-to-build and overwhelming Grim Patron decks (and let's not forget that he is a basic card, not even a Classic). All this comes to the conclusion that people are assuming that the devs will just let Standard rot into a steaming pile of aggro decks because of the loss of strong taunts. The devs have more at stake than anyone else at this transition.  If their game can't grow and adapt at a sustainable level, we would actually see the collapse of the community into one mainly derived of P2W players, where new comers and free players have no way to establish themselves without spending some good dough. This releasing of Naxx cards on a dust crafting basis will actually be a boon for free players, not having to patiently wait for their gold to pile up and they will have the freedom to craft the cards that THEY want. 

(Sorry about the rambling nature, its late and I wanted to reply while I could still remember what I wanted to say)

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Hunter doesn't have enough control cards to make Control Hunter better than Midrange of Face.

I do not blame them, I just don't like facing them. That's all.

Once you set OTK up, it's hard to prevent it. For example pre-nerf patron. Once he dropped Thaurissan, you were in trouble. Freeze mage drops Alex and you have to heal up or hope that she won't kill you with burn spells. Rafaam requires you to have stuff on board. The zombies die to trading, AoE or big taunts and therefore the OTK can be somewhat easily prevented. The Lantern requires you to have stuff on board. If you don't, you can't use the Lantern.

Sadly, Wild will become unbalanced and unplayable (I doubt that Blizzard will try to keep Wild balanced). So in the end, if we want to have balanced game, we will have to play Standard.

We can only hope that they will nerf the right cards, but how often did we see that? Also, if they do nerf them, they may completely kill the card (RIP Warsong).

Why don't they nerf current cards and keep only one mode? I don't think the devs will keep the meta in check.

That is the point: they want people to spend money! Why would they discontinue old expansions/adventures? So you have to buy the new ones to fill the holes in the decks. It's not because of balance, not because of "fun factor" - it's all about the money.

Actually - it's cheaper to buy adventures than having to craft cards from them. If I recall correctly, you get 106 dust from a pack. You could either buy about 15 packs (1500 gold) to get Loatheb, or you could spend 1400 gold to get not only Loatheb, but a lot of other cards as well!

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While I agree with Positiv2's sentiments, Blizzard has said that they will keep an eye of balance on both modes. If wild isnt fun or too imbalanced they will change it, but even blizzard expects wild to be a more "powered up" version of hearthstone. However that being said they will continue to be conservative with nerfing. Also they said with basic and classic changes they dont want to change the essence or flavor of cards. So I'm guessing mana increases and stuff will happen more so. I'm putting my faith in blizzard for now. Ofc they only place I ever spent money on the game was to buy LOE. That wont change. I may buy adventures because I find the solo play experience + the cards to be worth my penny since that cost is absolute and I know exactly what I'm getting in return. Not willing to spend on an infinite cycle of purchase packs.

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Blizzard also said that more deck slots will be too complicated, then they said that they can't decided on how many and now we have them. HearthStone dev team change their mind so quickly that I do not genuinely believe that they will keep both modes balanced. One will have to "go" and we both know which one would be the unbalanced one.

I hope that they won't change the text of cards. However, Ben Brode said something similar about Warsong, but he meant the stats and mana cost (ie. 3 mana 2/3), which is why it is complete trash. Hope he realised that flavor/soul is the next, not mana cost and stats.

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I agree with positiv. I think Blizzard are telling everyone that they're going to make sure that Wild stays balanced to keep a lid on all the protest. Remember that what they're saying is 'If you don't like Standard you can still play Wild which is what you've got now!'. In the end though Wild will be unbalanced, unloved and unplayed with - like my slightly mental cousin.

A lot of the community activity around Hearthstone, including a lot of deck creation as well as the streams, YT vids and websites like this one are all fed by content created by the pro-player sub-community. The pros have no incentive to have any interest in Wild whatsoever, so there's another reason why it will be a poorer experience.

In the end I guess it might be necessary for the game if it's the only way they can keep introducing new content without eventually breaking the whole thing. I just can't get enthusiastic about it right now. Maybe the expansion will change my mind. I hope so.

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I'm beginning to get a little concerned that my TgT collection is not as complete as I would like it to be moving into next expansion, especially since TGT will be unavailable in 2017. I'm still missing a few key cards from classic, like a second FoN, savanah highmane, faceless manipulators, giants, twilight drakes... and don't even ask about legendaries. I dont know how efficient it might be if I divide my resources between, TgT, New expansion and classic... 

If I grab TgT i'm behind the curve for new cards, and lose out on some of the key classic cards. If I grab new expansion, I may not be able to get enough TgT cards for standard or wild before it rotates out....

 

Right now I'm collecting gold and stand at 700.

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Choose a deck and start crafting cards you miss for that one deck. Just for that one deck. You can play only one deck at a time anyway. From the cards you wrote I guess you want to build Handlock?

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i feel u can buy tgt and classic packs to complete the collection. because next will be an expansion and not an adventure, so dust is more important than gold imo. if u are able to collect dust for 2 or 3 legendaries before spring it should be gucci.

with a little bit of luck u will also open multiples of cards that will be nerfed for double the dust.

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@positiv2 not as concerned about making a deck since we don't know if it will still be good come spring. More concerned with getting all the key cards from each pack so I can play around and stuff.

 

@yunkie With 2 whole sets going out the window I feel the new expansion will have more use than TgT did post launch. Like I said, since there are still legendaries and other good cards from classic that I miss, I don't know if it will be wise to spend dust on anything but classic (wild + forever standard value)

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i feel you Valkyr. But dont forget to have fun in the meantime. It's still a small 2 months away.

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How much gold (minimum) should one collect to have a good start for new expansion?

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Depends how many cards are in it I think. You want enough gold to buy fair coverage but buying so many packs you get a lot of disenchant fodder would be inefficient. I'm aiming for 3000-4000 (currently at 2300) but until they announce how many cards are in the expansion it's a bit of a WAG.

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Depends how many cards are in it I think. You want enough gold to buy fair coverage but buying so many packs you get a lot of disenchant fodder would be inefficient. I'm aiming for 3000-4000 (currently at 2300) but until they announce how many cards are in the expansion it's a bit of a WAG.

I have a feeling they said it will be around 200... I feel if you're aiming buy anything over 10 you might as well keep buying until you reset the pity counter. Anything less than 10 seems kind of pointless right?

Edited by Valkyr

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That's my feeling. Unless you have a huge amount of dust in the bank (18000 and counting...).

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      I hope you will like it , we can discuss every choice i made about this. For the moment it's a rank 13 confirmed , but people it's starting to play counter decks , and this is more difficult.
      This is weak versus tempo freezing quest mage , face hunters , and warriors that got the right quest deck with the right cards.
      probably weak versus every face deck around. probably if u play pirate versione you lose much because of just 3/4 provoke creatures.
      i'm open to advices by more experienced players :3
       
      [edit] updating while i wait some admin approve it :D
    • By Valkyr
      Hi guys. I got this idea from a thread on reddit talking about how players "share" the challenge a friend quest to double the gold earning by finding players on discord who have the same quest and playing against them so both players get 160g. My innitial thought was how to filter out people who may pretend to have the same quest to get the 80g, without the actual quest owner getting an extra 80g in return. I don't know if there are people like that out there, but I feel icy-veins being a more closely knit community, would inherently keep such people at bay. We can have a thread for each region and people can edit their posts once they have found someone and completed the quest.
      I thought this would be a nice way for people who don't have rl friends playing the game to find new friends  to share gold with. Plus it doubles the gold you earn from that particular quest. I think many people would be interested in getting max gold before Un'goro hits. I don't know if icy-veins policy allows for this or not so I thought I'd ask what you guys thought about this?
    • By Valkyr
      TL;DR: I'm mostly behind the curve each xpansion period in terms of being able to play certain decks. If I wait till year of mamoth I may miss out on experiencing certain decks which are viable right now but need specific legendaries like patches, Aya and finja. Craft now to enjoy these decks, or be smart and get ahead of the curve come next xpac. Esp. since there will be no more adventures making it harder to collect the cards.
       
      So, I'm done buying more MSG packs since I reset my pity counter. The only meta cards I got were Kazakus and priest legendary. I haven't seen warlock legendary used much so that will sit idle until it becomes viable. 
      Now i don't have patches or Aya or finja. Normal logic would tell me that its one month to new xpac so might as well wait for that and then spend my dust on cards which are still strong after Un'goro. But I'm starting to get tired of never being able to try various decks because I couldn't get all the important cards from an expac when they were still relevant. If I wait for next xpac, I would never have had the experience of trying patches pirate decks, or be on the other side of the "screw aya" conversation. OR try a completely different style of rogue play with finja.
      The question is, is it worth it to craft any of those crafts right now or is it better to just play casually this month and go all out next xpac!  
      I have 6500 dust readily available and another 15000 available if i disenchant my extra cards (which i dont like doing because nerf value)
      Also worth mentioning i'm still missing some key classic legendaries like alex, ysera, cairne, grommash, blood mage thalnos...
      My fav classes are Rogue, mage, warlock,  but i play all classes based on what their play style is currently.