22 posts in this topic

I've seen a lot of debate over the best use of the talents Nether Tempest, Living Bomb, and Frost Bomb. I'm sure by now many of us have crunched the numbers, seen the simulations' data, and experimented with each ourselves in game.

I definitely want to be corrected if I'm wrong, but what I gather from what I've read is that these talents are truly situation based. Many of the arguments revolve around how many targets there are and the combination of these specific talents with certain class specifications.

In order to gain a better general understanding of these, I'm wondering how other mages use these talents, in what different ways you use them, and what works for you. One thing I often do not hear considered is how comfortable the talent is for the player. Obviously this is secondary to anyone in a serious raiding guild, but I'm very curious about what works for others.

In which class specification do you use which talent? I'm not posing the question seeking an absolute answer; such a query would incite further debate. Really, I'm asking which talent you choose and why you think it fits.

I know most of us would probably agree that it's situation based, but I'm wondering if there are any examples people could share of experience where this was demonstrated.

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I really like Living Bomb supplemented by Glyph of Fire Blast. I use it in Frost spec. Reasons why I enjoy it are that I can spread it and not have to spend time applying it to three different targets (the same applies to refreshing it) and because it tends to create some really neat chain reactions once it kills the target (expires) for burst with shatters. I like Nether Tempest because, well, it looks really cool, and because it has no target cap (am I wrong?). Obviously time should not be wasted over applying it, but getting it on three or four targets and then using Fire Blast to proc it's secondary damaging ability can net some good DPS as well. I like the damage potential of Frost Bomb, but what always gets me (because of my short attention span) is refreshing it of CD. I'm always late or miss a delivery of it. I'm not sure why, maybe because I'm used to longer DoT's, who knows? Anyway, that's my take on these. I'm absolutely open to new ideas about how to use/combine them.

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I'm interested in seeing if Living Bomb will fall behind on cleave fights now that Glyph of Fire Blast has been replaced with Glyph of Inferno Blast? With that being said, I use Frost Bomb on all 5+ aoe fights and the on any fight that is not heavy movement. If it is a heavy movement fight then I have had nearly identical results with Living Bomb and Nether Tempest.

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In Tier 14, these talents were really well balanced for single-target DPS, and for all 3 specs. So, the choice between them mostly depended on the fight configuration, with Nether Tempest being great for just an additional target, Living Bomb for more targets (or spread out targets), and Frost Bomb for even more targets.

For those interested, I have just received news that Simulation Craft for 5.2 will be released in the next 24 hours, so people will be able to check if things hve changed with the new patch.

I don't have a definite answer for Tier 15, but I will work on it in the next few days, as I update the Mage guides.

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I thought I'd share my macros since the removal of Glyph of Fire Blast. These seem to help me quite a bit.

Frost Bomb - The easiest since it's a single target application, but if you keep a pretty full set of action bars, here's what I do

#showtooltip Frost Bomb

/targetenemy [dead][noharm]

/cast [nomodifier] Ice Lance; [modifier:alt] Frost Bomb

/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

This allows me to simply hit the left Alt key with my left thumb and apply it with the same key I use for Ice Lance whenever the CD is up.

Living Bomb and Nether Tempest

#showtooltip

/targetenemy

/cast Nether Tempest

/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

#showtooltip

/targetenemy

/cast Living Bomb

/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

This allows me to apply these spells to more than one target by "tabbing" with /targetenemy without hitting the Tab key. Since the removal of Glyph of Fire Blast, we can no longer spread Living Bomb or fire off the secondary damage of Frost Bomb or Nether Tempest. This is the most convenient way I've found to use these spells. Keep in mind the GCD otherwise you're just tabbing through targets without applying anything.

Another thing I do with all of my spells, something to consider only if you're an engineer, is including /use 10 in all of my spellcast macros so no matter what I'm casting I always have Synapse Springs on CD every minute.

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As for the reapplication of bombs, most notably frost bomb, I have some weak auras set up to notify me when Frost Bomb has 1 second left before it is done cooling down. When it finishes cooling down, the visual aid warning you before now spins about the screen obnoxiously until Fbomb goes back to cooling down.

This aura might sound like the worst thing ever, but I am remarkably terrible about my reapplying frost bomb, and I prefer using FBomb every chance I can. So, for me this aura is immensely useful xD

I tried to find the import for the aura manually through its addon folder, but I can't seem to locate it Posted Image

When my acct is active again, I'll share the import with anyone that wants it. Just Send me a PM as WA's import copypasta likes to beat your eyes to death with blocks of text. Posted Image

~Sage

Edited by Sagetastic
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i am an arcane mage on silvermoon, my ilvl is currently 499 and i use the nether tempest talent, i only apply this to 1 taget even though i should do more, but with this with my rotation i get sweet dps of 85-145k depending on the fight i am on so i recomend this.

Edited by benjam1997
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85-145k depending on the fight

You might want to try casting it on more than one target during the fights when you do 80k dps. Who knows, maybe you won't keep dipping down to 80k when you shouldn't be.

~Sage

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yes, on multi taget fights like horridon, when you have to moive, get your procs and DoT about 4-6 mobs, including tyhe boss, so you will get various ticks keeping your dps up, although raids care about damage done more than dps now, but both are needed

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hey, does anyone know the haste breakpoint for a frost mage using nether tempest?

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would you got 70% haste for 9 ticks more, thats alot of haste and alot of reforges and you will lose alot of big stats such as hit, mastery and crit

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I don't understand your question benjam?

As a Frost Mage, your stat priority is Intellect > Hit (to cap) > Haste > Crit > Mastery.

You should be stacking haste as much as possible once Hit capped.

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vlad, look at Krazyito response above my last, and look at the links, then you will understand

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Was your question "How would you get to 70% haste?" If so, then the answer is you are only getting there (with current gear) by using Bloodlust/Timewarp. Under those circumstances with haste raid buff you would only need 10,678 haste to get the +9 ticks. But don't worry about haste breakpoints as a frost mage, it's inconsequential. You should be stacking as much haste as you can get after Intellect and Hit to cap.

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That 5+30 is meant for the new legendary meta which procs 30% haste. But vladamyr is correct. Haste break points are inconsequential. I learned this after posting these links.

Please read this about DPS haste.

http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=71

TL;DR

In short, if you're really close to a breakpoint you can try to get past it, but otherwise ignore them. You should also treat very small differences between stat weights as being no difference at all.

Ben, you also read the chart incorrectly. It'd not telling what you should do, it's telling you what happens at what level of haste.

Edited by Krazyito

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what is the intelect cap then as i thought that was just stack as high as you can?

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There is no int cap. Again, you read it incorrectly.

He said, go for int, then hit to cap and then haste.

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There is no int cap. Again, you read it incorrectly.

He said, go for int, then hit to cap and then haste.

For his class, which is the Affliction Warlock. Interestingly, I noticed that according to the Frost Mage guide updated two days ago, and as approved by Blatty (#1 mage in the world), Int gems are no longer recommended, with the exception of inv_misc_gem_x4_rare_cut_orange.jpgReckless Vermilion Onyx for a red or prismatic socket if you are not having trouble reaching hit cap. For yellow sockets, we will gem straight Haste. For blue, straight Hit or Haste/Hit.

Edited by Tarazet

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Ok. First of all, Benjam1997, is a Frost Mage. Because he has been asking questions implying such things. This is also the Mage forum, which I moved here from the Shaman forum, because he was asking about Frost Mages. We are NOT talking about Warlocks. I also said that there is no int cap, and you are saying "for his class, the Affliction Warlock". From this you are implying that Frost mages DO have an intellect cap. Please elaborate because I don't think it is true.

Second thing. Stat priorities hold true I stated the priority and what I have said complies with your statement.. There is no way you are telling me that "haste/crit/mastery" is a better stat than Intellect though. Intellect provides 1 point of spellpower per point, and some small~ number of crit. As Vladamyer has stated the stat priority is as follows:

 Intellect > Hit (to cap) > Haste > Crit > Mastery

So ONE point of intellect is better than ONE point of haste. For this is the reason why haste gems are better than intellect gems. Haste gems will give 2 points of haste for every one point of intellect that you would otherwise gain. NOT because "Haste is better than intellect". Its because 2 points of haste is better than one point of intellect.

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For his class, which is the Affliction Warlock. Interestingly, I noticed that according to the Frost Mage guide updated two days ago, and as approved by Blatty (#1 mage in the world), Int gems are no longer recommended, with the exception of inv_misc_gem_x4_rare_cut_orange.jpgReckless Vermilion Onyx for a red or prismatic socket if you are not having trouble reaching hit cap. For yellow sockets, we will gem straight Haste. For blue, straight Hit or Haste/Hit.

Honestly the problem is that there really is no set solution like that. It depends on your gear. Blatty is Heroicly geared so what works best for him. It doesn't necessarily mean that that translates to everyone else's gear levels. Until someone can post some math on the matter, i'm going to trust simcraft and stick with Intellect over haste.

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Ok. First of all, Benjam1997, is a Frost Mage. Because he has been asking questions implying such things. This is also the Mage forum, which I moved here from the Shaman forum, because he was asking about Frost Mages. We are NOT talking about Warlocks. I also said that there is no int cap, and you are saying "for his class, the Affliction Warlock". From this you are implying that Frost mages DO have an intellect cap. Please elaborate because I don't think it is true.

Second thing. Stat priorities hold true I stated the priority and what I have said complies with your statement.. There is no way you are telling me that "haste/crit/mastery" is a better stat than Intellect though. Intellect provides 1 point of spellpower per point, and some small~ number of crit. As Vladamyer has stated the stat priority is as follows:

 Intellect > Hit (to cap) > Haste > Crit > Mastery

So ONE point of intellect is better than ONE point of haste. For this is the reason why haste gems are better than intellect gems. Haste gems will give 2 points of haste for every one point of intellect that you would otherwise gain. NOT because "Haste is better than intellect". Its because 2 points of haste is better than one point of intellect.

I got mixed up with the link you gave about Haste.

In any case, we're in agreement. There is no such thing as an Intellect cap. In the case of gemming, there are cases where taking a gem with Int on it doesn't result in the greatest benefit, but in pretty much any other case you will want to get extra Intellect from any source possible.

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