5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[Zagam 1,982]

Sure - they're all important, but in regards to what you need to focus on, the big 4 are the important.  The rest is residue.  I'd still rather sit on my Embers and time them with the 15% 4pc proc than use them with Lightweave or Jade Spirit.  That might be a personal preference even if one is better than the other mathematically.  The real point is that the difference is negligible.

[Scaran 0]

First off, good on the warlock community for having high end warlocks willing to help others.

 

Ok, so I'm trying to get to the point where I can absolutely crush the other DPS in my raid. Sure, sure, I want to progress too, but mostly I want to shame my friends with my warlock awesomeness. However, in my view, I'm not good enough to truly embarrass them just yet. We're a super casual raid, so my gear isn't awesome. Fair warning.

 

So, I need help.

 

What are the top 5 things I can improve. Talents, glyphs, mechanical failures, spell priorities etc. Mostly I play destro...and a really bad affliction from time to time. 

 

Here's some data to work with:

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/gorgonnash/Scaron/simple

 

And a few weeks worth of logs:

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7Mb3PtG2Y4xkFqhw

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/n2JTwRaB9CrXVhgj

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mvJpR98APfHh2WYC

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/y74cgqMvZfXhGK8B

 

 

[Zagam 1,982]

Wouldn't quite say you're 'casual' with your gear.  I think that term is thrown around loosely, particularly for someone with a 565 item level.  Your armory checks out well and fine.

 

Your Protectors parse leaves much to be desired.  You posted here for Destruction help, so I'll tailor response to that.  Come back when you're ready to pick your Aff numbers up. 

 

On Sha of Pride, your teammate Destro blew you up.  I notice "Cleave" being in your parse, but KTT and PBI being on your armory.  Please don't tell me you switched to FCoR for Sha of Pride (or any fight).  It's a shitty trinket all the time.  If you acquired KTT/PBI after this parse, ignore my statement.  This http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/n2JTwRaB9CrXVhgj#fight=15&type=casts&source=4&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24123398317.0.0.Warlock%24false%24148897%5E0%24Main%24%23909049%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24123398317.0.0.Warlock%24false%24113858%5E0%24Main%24%23a04D8A%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24123398317.0.0.Warlock%24false%24146046&ability=116858 shows that you know what you're doing with Chaos Bolts and procs.  Your Shadowburn use looks really low.  You should be using this to kill mobs off and you certainly should have gotten more than 3 off during execute.  By comparison, your buddy Jobs got off 7 Shadowburns.  Mechanically, you're doing well - it's time for you to fine tune things down.

 

On Malkorok, your opener was very solid, but it looks like you tailed off and never really spikes back up.  Immolate uptime is 92% - this could be better, but shit happens on this fight.  277k is pretty good for your item level and the way your group does it.  I'm concerned that you were capped on Burning Embers during this fight.  You only had 15 Chaos Bolt casts and 6 Shadowburns.  You don't use advanced logging, so I can't look at your resources.  I just have a suspicion that you reached 4.0 Burning Embers a few times.

 

All in all, pretty good.  If you want a specific fight looked at, let me know.  I just picked two at random.

[Scaran 0]

Thanks, Zagam.

 

You're right, my shadowburn usage sucked on the reflection adds on Sha. I find myself having a hard time getting a SB in after they've gone sub 20% (they die quickly). Nonetheless, I've got to do better at that. A specific encounter question, is it worth it to havoc onto Sha and then wait until adds are low to get off havoc'd SBs, or continue with the AoE rotation for them?

 

And, to be honest, I do have trouble sometimes with paying attention to burning embers and capping them. There's not much more to say about that than me learning to suck less at this. The fights you looked at were pre-my heroic warforged shoulders / bracers / and 4pc so, that's helped my dps some (as seen on the first parse posted--which was actually the most recent parse).

 

So, gearwise, never use the cleave trink and always KTT? Makes sense, I'll do that.

[Soulzar 42]

Thanks, Zagam.

 

You're right, my shadowburn usage sucked on the reflection adds on Sha. I find myself having a hard time getting a SB in after they've gone sub 20% (they die quickly). Nonetheless, I've got to do better at that. A specific encounter question, is it worth it to havoc onto Sha and then wait until adds are low to get off havoc'd SBs, or continue with the AoE rotation for them?

 

And, to be honest, I do have trouble sometimes with paying attention to burning embers and capping them. There's not much more to say about that than me learning to suck less at this. The fights you looked at were pre-my heroic warforged shoulders / bracers / and 4pc so, that's helped my dps some (as seen on the first parse posted--which was actually the most recent parse).

 

So, gearwise, never use the cleave trink and always KTT? Makes sense, I'll do that.

 

Pre drop RoF, As they are spawning charge up a F&B incin, then double F&B conflag, Havoc and snipe as many shadowburns.  I know at least with my guilds burst if I try to hard cast incin a second time I don't get any SB cleave.  I don't start with F&B conflag since the adds don't all spawn at once, the cast time of Incin lets a few more spawn before your first cast finishes.  Even if you don't manage to get all 3 Sburns off, one or two will leave you ember capped to funnel some CB's into boss/fragment after AoE wave.

 

Focus boss and use a havoc macro so getting havoc on boss is mindless and doesnt waste any time.  Your havoc will be up to use every add in back, and every wave of reflections.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Soulzar

[Nytemare 2]

So here is my 25 man normal log from Wed - would love to see if I could do better and get higher dps (toon Nÿtemare)

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/nxs0hifhqa7ftu5h/rankinfo/ - dps was high on all fights, but feel I could do higher

[Desos 18]

I looked closer on IJ and Shamans.

Try harder to spend Embers during major procs/DS. Your average Chaos Bolt hits not as hard as it could.

Try to apply Immolate while your 4pc procs. This way you can get the most out if it in terms of ember generation. While it seems you tried to do this, you have to do it more thoroughly.I found this easily trainable by training at a raid dummy, while setting my favourite damage meter to something like debuff uptimes and another window to damage by me to see live damage breakdowns. In this way you can develop a feeling for different scenarios and how to react to them.

 

Use Havoc more often, especially on fights like Shamans LFR, where both Shamans should be attackable by you for the whole fight duration.

For me some kind of rule of thumb is:

Is there a proc or am I about to cap on ember: Havoc CB(in case of capping try to game for 4pc) ;

Do I have low ember and/or need to reapply Immolate: Havoc and Cast ember generating spells in a order to apply Immolate under 4 pc. 

 

Quick and dirty analysis, maybe someone else can pick up.

[Nytemare 2]

I looked closer on IJ and Shamans.

Try harder to spend Embers during major procs/DS. Your average Chaos Bolt hits not as hard as it could.

Try to apply Immolate while your 4pc procs. This way you can get the most out if it in terms of ember generation. While it seems you tried to do this, you have to do it more thoroughly.I found this easily trainable by training at a raid dummy, while setting my favourite damage meter to something like debuff uptimes and another window to damage by me to see live damage breakdowns. In this way you can develop a feeling for different scenarios and how to react to them.

 

Use Havoc more often, especially on fights like Shamans LFR, where both Shamans should be attackable by you for the whole fight duration.

For me some kind of rule of thumb is:

Is there a proc or am I about to cap on ember: Havoc CB(in case of capping try to game for 4pc) ;

Do I have low ember and/or need to reapply Immolate: Havoc and Cast ember generating spells in a order to apply Immolate under 4 pc. 

 

Quick and dirty analysis, maybe someone else can pick up.

 

both IJ and DS were pulled early so both of them I was off my game - we used the 3 tank so never get to use havoc cb on them. I do get to use Havoc + 3x SB on dogs, and aim to do it on slimes

 

Beside those 2 fights anything else? feel my gal was weak due to being on tower and how we do it, but think I can push more dps on all the fights. I am already top dog on all if not most fights, but want to do more lol.

 

For 4pc I do aim to do immolate. When it procs I do CB - Immolate as that best. However if immolate has over 7 sec left I don't refresh as I will be clipping it then. Or should I always clip it and always refresh dot with 4pc? so that be refreshing it every 10 sec or so.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Nytemare

[Berlinia 168]

Hello have a fast question.
Is it worth snapshotting imolate with your major DPS cooldown? (the one that gives 30% Crit Chance).
As said recently boosted my warlock and trying to get the hang of it :P

Is this a good practise? Or should I only reserve it for when there is no time to cast CB during the last few seconds
Cheers
Berlinia

[Oldtrout 7]

Hello have a fast answer.

Yes.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Oldtrout

[Lockybalboa 618]

Hello have a fast question.

Is it worth snapshotting imolate with your major DPS cooldown? (the one that gives 30% Crit Chance).

As said recently boosted my warlock and trying to get the hang of it

Is this a good practise? Or should I only reserve it for when there is no time to cast CB during the last few seconds

Cheers

Berlinia

 

 

Trinkets are better (normally) but DS is good enough to dump with also.

 

PBI has a 115 second ICD, DS is 120 seconds. So *normally* the two will line up very nicely, sometimes the RNG gods feel like picking on you and slap you around a bit. In that case, PBI is what I focus my dump on, but I would also dump as much as possible with the DS too.

[Jayros 0]

Hello, 

 

I have been seeing a bit of warlocks start reforging more into haste or crt. I was wondering if haste is greater then crt now somehow. I know you need to be careful with haste since with +5% raid buff, and bloodlust you will be casting faster then your 1 second GC. Also most of their secondary spec's are Afflic, that might have something to do with it. Was just wondering what your guys thoughts are. 

 

Thanks

[Lockybalboa 618]

Hello, 

 

I have been seeing a bit of warlocks start reforging more into haste or crt. I was wondering if haste is greater then crt now somehow. I know you need to be careful with haste since with +5% raid buff, and bloodlust you will be casting faster then your 1 second GC. Also most of their secondary spec's are Afflic, that might have something to do with it. Was just wondering what your guys thoughts are. 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Haste and crit are even in value till about 11-12k haste, past that makes for to much GCD capping issues and so loses it's value.

 

Until that 11-12k mark, haste and crit are even in terms of damage gain. It comes down to play style.

[Jayros 0]

Ok thank you

[Soulzar 42]

To further that, one of the main benefits and why I ultimately switched from crit is because haste over crit works better for Affliction/Demo offspecs without any impact on Destro.

[AstanoVidatu 4]

Ok, so I have gone through Mr robot and tested both of it's pve builds, crit over haste and haste over crit and  either way it still feels like my spellcasts are taking forever, and not even hitting hard enough to justify the lengthy cast times. 

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/feathermoon/Ebonscourge/simple

 

these are the gems it just recommended I put in instead of the pure intel and haste gems I had. 

I am only getting about 150k dps single target unless my procs line up really well.  And I know that's really low for the ilvl and gear I have. 

Any suggestions demon experts?

[Stunlocked 8]

Read the stickies, esp. the fixing your DPS FAQ. If you want more in depth analysis! the regulars are going to ask to post your logs.

[Desos 18]

Ok, so I have gone through Mr robot and tested both of it's pve builds, crit over haste and haste over crit and  either way it still feels like my spellcasts are taking forever, and not even hitting hard enough to justify the lengthy cast times. 

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/feathermoon/Ebonscourge/simple

 

these are the gems it just recommended I put in instead of the pure intel and haste gems I had. 

I am only getting about 150k dps single target unless my procs line up really well.  And I know that's really low for the ilvl and gear I have. 

Any suggestions demon experts?

 

It´s been a while since you´ve posted, but could you log out in destruction specc and gear? And then, since Stunlocked mentioned it and many others will mention it, post logs. Gear will eventually come but if you want to get better at playstyle, log yourself and let somebody look through it.

[Nytemare 2]

So with WoD coming up and passive perk each spec get, Destro bring Crit over Mastery (which is strangle) I been thinking of race changing from Human to Worgen for 1% crit bonus.

 

Every 1% crit  = 1% CB damage right?

 

I was thinking of dropping enchanting for either Skiining / Herb

 

Skinning as if above is true 1% crit = 1% CB damage, then crit bonus from skinning  (.80) should be good right? not fully percent, but getting .20 should be easy to official get another 1% damage

 

Herb was because I read places that Herb seems to be good for classes that can line it up. 2min Cd lines perfect with DSI, also read on IcyVeins that "At Heroic gear level (RPPM trinkets and Legendary meta gem), Herbalism and Engineering become your professions of choice." So is Herb really that good? I am currently 5/14H (Immer, FP, Nour, Sha, Gal)

 

So what do you guys think would be better does destro?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Herbalism is for Demo/Afflic. It's not a good profession for Destro.

Skinning is crap because it gives nothing compared to what any of the crafting professions grant you. A bit of crit rating is far worse than an extra 2k intellect proc, for example.

Also dwarf looks set to be the best alliance race in WoD.

[Zagam 1,982]

And Blood Elves for Horde -_-

 

Also, while yes, 1% crit = 1% CB damage, 1% Mastery does the same and requires less rating, so Crit will not outweigh Mastery.  As for WoD, we're unsure of official ratings and tuning, so it's yet to be determined which stat is best.  For the rest of MoP, Mastery is king and there is no debate.

[Nytemare 2]

Herbalism is for Demo/Afflic. It's not a good profession for Destro.

Skinning is crap because it gives nothing compared to what any of the crafting professions grant you. A bit of crit rating is far worse than an extra 2k intellect proc, for example.

Also dwarf looks set to be the best alliance race in WoD.

 

Unclear why dwarf looks to be best? did I miss something? I know they got 2% bonus crit damage, but sounds like that only good for those classes that base around crit. For a lock would that mean 2% CB damage?

 

And Blood Elves for Horde

 

Also, while yes, 1% crit = 1% CB damage, 1% Mastery does the same and requires less rating, so Crit will not outweigh Mastery.  As for WoD, we're unsure of official ratings and tuning, so it's yet to be determined which stat is best.  For the rest of MoP, Mastery is king and there is no debate.

 

Yes I gem all mastery - well I been using your gear as a reference since I still new into the heroic to get idea on what I want to aim for. Most I knew but Off-hand I been mix about Garrosh/IJ/Thok and which non-tier piece was best. 

 

So when it comes to Haste it not as good as Icy says? I off-spec as demo so it could help there I guess.

 

For race change figure I wait until 6.0 patch hits and everything official to do that, but for profession if I was going to change it, best to do it now so I had time to level it up, and get anything for it. 

 

Right now I little over 10.437 haste due to gear, I read in here that was the sweet spot for embers, and everything else. So if I do take Herb to give it a try, do I reforge around it being up (given me sweet spot only when I can pop it every 2min) or ignore it. Of course I still gemed,gear,etc.. for mastery, but if I reforge around it then that means I can squeeze maybe some more crit out of my gear is all.

 

Zag since your a troll and have a haste Cd like lifeblood would be (but of course yours better) how do you handle it? Do you gear/gem/reforge around it being up or just ignore it?

[Zagam 1,982]

Haste vs Crit argument is null and void.  It's a personal preference with Destruction, so just do what's comfortable.  Either way, you won't be generating a DPS variance because of your stats.

 

Berserking is up for the first 15 seconds and is barely used more than twice a fight.  With Bloodlust at the start, it's wasted but still does something to Immolate.  Later in the fight, it just gives a small buff.  I don't reforge or do anything around that value - it's just a bonus perk.

[Nytemare 2]

Haste vs Crit argument is null and void.  It's a personal preference with Destruction, so just do what's comfortable.  Either way, you won't be generating a DPS variance because of your stats.

 

Berserking is up for the first 15 seconds and is barely used more than twice a fight.  With Bloodlust at the start, it's wasted but still does something to Immolate.  Later in the fight, it just gives a small buff.  I don't reforge or do anything around that value - it's just a bonus perk.

 

What do you mean I will not generate a DPS variance? so you saying regardless of what I do, I not going to lose or gain any new DPS?

 

Ah ok so you just use it when you can, and take the bonus got it.

 

Side note why does BE look to be best for Horde? Tuaren get the same bonus Dwarf get with the 2% bonus damage if that what going to make Dwarf best for ally.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Nytemare

[Janglybits 1]

What do you mean I will not generate a DPS variance? so you saying regardless of what I do, I not going to lose or gain any new DPS?

 

Ah ok so you just use it when you can, and take the bonus got it.

 

Side note why does BE look to be best for Horde? Tuaren get the same bonus Dwarf get with the 2% bonus damage if that what going to make Dwarf best for ally.

Tauren can't be Warlocks :)