5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[Nytemare 2]

I currently am a 565 and have 30% haste when buff, should I try for more? Right now immolate has +2, should I change the picker for Robot to +3 or +4 and go that route?

 

Or am I good and can now focus on Mastery?

[Lockybalboa 618]

Mastery should always be your first priority. No matter what.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Did you read this guide, or did you just post in this thread first? Under the stats section, "1) Mastery is king." You ONLY pick a haste threshold before mastery for Affliction/Demonology, but even then you don't want to pick one so high your mastery is super low.

 

Have you read around the other threads here? We answer all of these, including why you shouldn't use Ask Mr Robot, in like half the threads people create.

[Nytemare 2]

A) I don't use robots weights I do my own, just use them to put it all together

 

B ) Not my 1st time here, I have posted many times about different things. Mastery is King, but I added haste to get more procs. With my gear I have a 30% haste with a pretty high mastery. Asking if I should try for +3 or +4 immolate haste at which case I lose some mastery. Demo / Affliction is also my off spec - mostly demo.

 

I like mastery as a Destro but having a 2.5 and under CB cast is also good as it allows me to get two off with out having to use backdraft to get one off before trinkets wear off.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Nytemare

[Lockybalboa 618]

+3 and +4 Immolate is moronic. That would mean you need 18200 haste or 26318 haste respectively.

 

Or am I good and can now focus on Mastery?

 

From what you said it sounded like you were prioritizing stats OTHER then mastery as your main stat. That would be bad.

 

You can play with a high haste build as destro, but you should never sacrifice mastery for more haste. Ever.

[Belloc 6]

A) I don't use robots weights I do my own, just use them to put it all together

 

B ) Not my 1st time here, I have posted many times about different things. Mastery is King, but I added haste to get more procs. With my gear I have a 30% haste with a pretty high mastery. Asking if I should try for +3 or +4 immolate haste at which case I lose some mastery. Demo / Affliction is also my off spec - mostly demo.

More procs? Of what? I hope you're not referring to RPPM trinkets, because they stopped scaling with haste in 5.4, I believe.

[Zagam 1,982]

The only thing that scales with Haste in regards to proc is Essense of Yu'lon.  Not worth pushing for more Haste.  TECHNICALLY you're pushing for more procs of RPPM trinkets that proc on spell damage because the more hits you deliver, the more likely the proc rate, but in the overall scheme, pursuing more Haste for more procs isn't ideal.

[Deamux 4]

Ooh a question just popped up in my head. How do we want to refresh immolate. Do we refresh each time the 4set piece bonus procs ? To get a as high as possible uptime on immolate being buffed by the 4 set piece? Or de we simply wait for it to nearly fall of and then refresh it, not considering the 4 set piece? 

 

Hmm I feel like this is one of those things I should already know 

 

(Oh darn just noticed i'm a Peasant now! Awesome  )

Edited March 7, 2014 by Deamux

[Zagam 1,982]

Immolate refreshing takes a low priority to snapshotting other abilities.  If you're getting into snapshotting, you'd be far better off buffing your Chaos Bolt by 15% than snapshotting Immolate.  If you are SUPER fast to react, you can get a CB off AND refresh Immolate in that 5 second window. 

 

Immolate should be updated like all other DoTs - watch Affdots and if the number is large, refresh Immo.

[Deamux 4]

Thank you!

[bangorme 0]

When I look at locks producing significantly higher dps than myself, I usually see higher chaos bolt damage.  Right now I am using chaos bolt if I have the proc from Purrified Bindings of Immerseus, or when embers are >= 3.5 .  But I've got two other things I could be casting on:  Proc for Kardis Toxic Tottem, and Dark Soul.  Should I be throwing chaos bolts on all of these?

 

[mediocregatsby 18]

casting CB when you are at 3.5 embers with no procs is basically the worst case scenario and should be avoided as much as possible by casting CBs with 2+ procs. there are exceptions like when a burn phase is coming or your PBI ICD + DS cooldowns are coming up in a few seconds.

[bangorme 0]

casting CB when you are at 3.5 embers with no procs is basically the worst case scenario and should be avoided as much as possible by casting CBs with 2+ procs. there are exceptions like when a burn phase is coming or your PBI ICD + DS cooldowns are coming up in a few seconds.

 Well, here's the problem, I'm getting to 3.5 embers waiting on one proc, nevermind 2+ procs.  Should I be saving dark soul for one of the two procs?

[mediocregatsby 18]

no you should be using darksoul whenever it's available. at most wait some seconds if you track your PBI ICD.

 

what procs are you tracking? aside from your 2 trinkets and DS, you should also track the 4pc bonus, jade spirit, and profession bonus if you have one. even 1 proc is fine although suboptimal unless you're getting to 3 embers.

[bangorme 0]

what procs are you tracking? aside from your 2 trinkets and DS, you should also track the 4pc bonus, jade spirit, and profession bonus if you have one. even 1 proc is fine although suboptimal unless you're getting to 3 embers.

 

I'm tracking: 

1) Expanded mind (2 piece bonus)

2) Lightweave (tailoring)

3) Empowered Grasp (PBI proc)

4) Attack Proc Intellect (KTT proc)

 

I am NOT tracking the 4 piece bonus.  So if I track that, that will give me five things, and you are suggesting that I wait until at least two of them proc?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Should definitely be tracking the 4 set. Mostly for ensuring immolate is kept refreshed with it, but also for min maxing chaos bolt damage.

[bangorme 0]

Should definitely be tracking the 4 set. Mostly for ensuring immolate is kept refreshed with it, but also for min maxing chaos bolt damage.

So, you agree that I should be using chaos bolt when 2 or more procs are up?

[Liquidsteel 279]

I would cast chaos bolt with 4 piece only if I'm at 3 embers. Conditions apply but they've already been covered (such as PBI off ICD and dark soul ready to go).

 

I don't track tailoring or jade spirit. Probably an oversight but not really too bothered.

[mediocregatsby 18]

I'm tracking: 

1) Expanded mind (2 piece bonus)

2) Lightweave (tailoring)

3) Empowered Grasp (PBI proc)

4) Attack Proc Intellect (KTT proc)

lol these are so wrong

 

expanded mind is PBI proc

empowered grasp is the 2 piece bonus for AFFLICTION

destructive influence is the 2 piece bonus for destruction

ember master is the 4 piece bonus for destruction

toxic power is the KTT proc

[Zagam 1,982]

Use Chaos Bolt with any of the following procs (DO NOT WAIT FOR MORE AND WASTE YOUR OPPORTUNITIES)

 

1) PBI (Expanded Mind)

2) KTT (Toxic Power)

3) 4pc proc (15% bonus damage)

4) Dark Soul (30% bonus damage)

[bangorme 0]

Use Chaos Bolt with any of the following procs (DO NOT WAIT FOR MORE AND WASTE YOUR OPPORTUNITIES)

 

1) PBI (Expanded Mind)

2) KTT (Toxic Power)

3) 4pc proc (15% bonus damage)

4) Dark Soul (30% bonus damage)

Thanks Zag and everyone else that commented.  I'll try this during my next raid.

[gahhda 95]

Use Chaos Bolt with any of the following procs (DO NOT WAIT FOR MORE AND WASTE YOUR OPPORTUNITIES)

 

1) PBI (Expanded Mind)

2) KTT (Toxic Power)

3) 4pc proc (15% bonus damage)

4) Dark Soul (30% bonus damage)

 

4pc proc should only be used when at or above 3 embers.

 

 

Immolate refreshing takes a low priority to snapshotting other abilities.  If you're getting into snapshotting, you'd be far better off buffing your Chaos Bolt by 15% than snapshotting Immolate.  If you are SUPER fast to react, you can get a CB off AND refresh Immolate in that 5 second window. 

 

Immolate should be updated like all other DoTs - watch Affdots and if the number is large, refresh Immo.

 

I know I posted both of these in a thread like yesterday...

 

When it comes to critical chance increases, immolate almost always outweighs the chaos bolt, assuming that immolate either has a low duration or a low crit chance presently. The damage increase to the immolate in combination with the increase in embers will outweigh the damage increase to the chaos bolt. These cases almost never happen regardless, as our primary crit % buff, the 4pc, lasts long enough to accomplish both a chaos bolt and an immolate.

Edited March 18, 2014 by gahhda

[Mephistolol 0]

Use Chaos Bolt with any of the following procs (DO NOT WAIT FOR MORE AND WASTE YOUR OPPORTUNITIES)

 

1) PBI (Expanded Mind)

2) KTT (Toxic Power)

3) 4pc proc (15% bonus damage)

4) Dark Soul (30% bonus damage)

So I've got a couple questions and comments. I'm a former top 10 DPS parser myself that just came back after a multi-tier hiatus. 

1) What do you guys feel is better: dumping all embers on CB so long as you'll snapshot during the procs, or constrain 1 or 2 (assuming you had 3.5 or so) for other purposes? Historically I feel I've been screwing this up lately -- only dumping 1-2 CBs and trying to get Immo snapshotted, though back-to-back-to-back CBs are possible w/o Backdraft charges on a 10s proc timer such as PBoI or KTT. In that case, you may lose out on Conflag charge cap or Immo uptime. This nuance has been greatly affecting my analysis of ember dumping and I feel clarification for max DPS would be excellent.

2) Can BB beat out KTT assuming you get your CBs in at ~7 and 10 stacks, or 6 and 9 stacks? I agree the movement can totally screw that, but maximizing a 10s proc all depends on whether you can squeeze the casts in before it expires and casting something that takes ~2.5s with 2.4s left on proc is a waste of time. Another nuance I am trying to correct.

3) As someone fresh back and first tier of MoP, I feel really shitty losing to someone 9 ilvl ahead of me. I'm 563 and the other lock is 572. For a while I was beating the entire raid (10-man moderate skill guild), but he corrected some snapshotting and seems to be pulling his gear. Should I be worried of DPS, or is the difference in our gear absolutely monumental? We're talking ~12m damage difference on Heroic Jugg. 

4) Which fights are best to glyph Havoc? I have yet to glyph it and I know it's just me forgetting the glyph exists. I'm smarter than this. 

 

My motivation isn't just to be good for my guild, but to absolutely squeeze every single .1 dps out of my gear. I know my DPS is strong, but there are some critical errors in snapshotting and mechanics I feel I still can correct, despite stomping a raid filled with 570-somethings.

 

Best and Cheers,

Meph

EDIT: Link to robot -- https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/zuluhed/meph%C3%AFsto

EDIT2: Another Q: How do we feel about macroing DS+Racial(orc) into Immo/Incin for maximum uptime? I don't have the ability to save and sometimes (rarely) they go off in downtime of a fight (p2 jugg, immers, etc) rather than being able to sync with Lust. I feel the uptime is worth it because holding onto it is a certain DPS loss.

 

Edited March 24, 2014 by Mephistolol

[JvChequer 43]

2) Can BB beat out KTT assuming you get your CBs in at ~7 and 10 stacks, or 6 and 9 stacks? I agree the movement can totally screw that, but maximizing a 10s proc all depends on whether you can squeeze the casts in before it expires and casting something that takes ~2.5s with 2.4s left on proc is a waste of time. Another nuance I am trying to correct.

 

 

I feel that only a great haste build could make BB beating KTT because u could menage around 2-3 Chaos bolt with good procs.

 

4) Which fights are best to glyph Havoc? I have yet to glyph it and I know it's just me forgetting the glyph exists. I'm smarter than this.

 

 

I can see only Thok where Glyphed version it's a dps gain over Non-glyphed.

 

Klaxxi and Garrosh Glyphed version it's more around utility. Not best choice dps-wise.

Klaxxi for burning down first boss and the third one with the shooter.

Garrosh for T1 + especific weapon.

Edited March 24, 2014 by JvChequer

[Mephistolol 0]

Thanks, Chequer! 


While I wait to see what other ideas surround my questions, I'm curious if anyone has a link on SimCraft of 4-set DPS estimates? I wonder because our 572 lock has heroic non-set pieces in place of 4 set and I'm curious how that pans out. I would estimate that 15% damage to 1 CB and another cast is a pretty nice DPS increase. 

I think I've come to theory on ember dumping. If those 4 procs are up, unload as many embers as you can fit in *any* one of their procs and really reap rewards if they overlap like the double CB at beginning of fights. I imagine I can easily get 3 CBs in procs now instead of holding onto them. I think that may be a weak point of my DPS. 

Logs here: any analysis would be great though I know it's quite laborious and unless someone is extra bored....unlikely. 
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/pdrns7sxdtac2lsd/sum/damageDone/

Cheers!