Jump to content
FORUMS
Damien

Assassination Rogue 7.3

Recommended Posts

Hey everyone.  First, thanks to Furty for putting this together, and to all the knowledgeable commentors for their insights.

My question is this: it seems like there is some synergy between Elaborate Planning and Vigor.  More energy means more CPs, more CPs means more finishers, more finishers means more EP uptime.  Plus, I just like the energy regen with Vigor at these early stages.

So, from those that have done actual testing on this (rather than my somewhat anecdotal tests under varying circumstances that may influence the results) what are you finding?  Am I giving up significant DPS by going with Vigor instead of Deeper Strategem?

Thanks again to everyone for the help.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/5/2016 at 1:47 AM, Guest SomeRogue said:

Can someone explain me the Math behind [ elaborate planning ] being above Hemo?

Is it taking into consideration the energy regen we lose? is it taking in consideration the Vanish+Rupture?

 

The Sims that are run take everything into consideration, yes. The values for each are close, but ultimately EP will do more damage as things stand right now

22 hours ago, Guest Akemyie said:

I would put haste slightly ahead of mastery, because of kingsbane. The AS increases the chances of getting a poison application, which gives you some more damages.

Simulations are done to take into account all of the different skills available for each spec. This includes the artifact abilities and talents. 

In short, Haste doesn't change the chance of applying poisons by a very significant amount, whereas Mastery increased the damage of poisons by quite a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Mr13Lucky said:

Hey everyone.  First, thanks to Furty for putting this together, and to all the knowledgeable commentors for their insights.

My question is this: it seems like there is some synergy between Elaborate Planning and Vigor.  More energy means more CPs, more CPs means more finishers, more finishers means more EP uptime.  Plus, I just like the energy regen with Vigor at these early stages.

So, from those that have done actual testing on this (rather than my somewhat anecdotal tests under varying circumstances that may influence the results) what are you finding?  Am I giving up significant DPS by going with Vigor instead of Deeper Strategem?

Thanks again to everyone for the help.

 

 

DS gives a more powerful Rupture, as explained in the guide

Additionally, as item level increases, Vigor becomes a much less attractive option. I recommend staying DS as the guide suggests, although because it is a slightly more complicated way of playing you might be more comfortable playing Vigor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Carrn said:

DS gives a more powerful Rupture, as explained in the guide

Additionally, as item level increases, Vigor becomes a much less attractive option. I recommend staying DS as the guide suggests, although because it is a slightly more complicated way of playing you might be more comfortable playing Vigor.

Thanks, Carrn.  I am still leveling, so maybe that's why I'm feeling so energy starved without Vigor. The complexity of the rotation is not daunting using DS, so I'll follow your advice and go with recommended build. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Mr13Lucky said:

Thanks, Carrn.  I am still leveling, so maybe that's why I'm feeling so energy starved without Vigor. The complexity of the rotation is not daunting using DS, so I'll follow your advice and go with recommended build. 

Vigor is fine while leveling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

As an fyi, nightstalker no longer affects rupture or garrote damage. I submitted a ticket to bliz, but as of right now vanish into 5/6 cp rupture will do no bonus damage. Nightstalker also does not affect the poison damage of kingsbane, but does affect the on hit portion of the damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

As an fyi, nightstalker no longer affects rupture or garrote damage. I submitted a ticket to bliz, but as of right now vanish into 5/6 cp rupture will do no bonus damage. Nightstalker also does not affect the poison damage of kingsbane, but does affect the on hit portion of the damage.

Er... It`s working fine for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Tsuid

Hey, i'm not a pro of theorycrafting and haven't played since BC my question might be dumb but still i need to know :)

 

Concerning Stats Weight, during BC it used to change according to the tier u looted it. Ex : Haste had more value on a T6-tier gear than on a T4-tier gear. Does it work the same now ? Is this chart going to change with the release of raids/KZ ? Does it actually change already in NM / HM / MM dungeons?

Thx!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The short answer is: it might.

The longer answer is that unless something else changes drastically, the stats will probably stay the same. The reason is that because so much of Assassinations's damage comes from bleeds, Mastery and Haste really don't have much of an impact; Mastery only affects poison damage, and Haste doesn't have enough of an impact on the bleeds to be meaningful. If, say, Envenom got buffed (or Rupture got nerfed), that could change the stat weights, but it would have to be an incredibly significant buff or nerf to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howdy mates. Has anyone looked at the Rogue Doomblade pieces in the raids for Legion? Most of everything is Mastery + Crit or Haste - - versatility is few and far in between, and almost non-existent. How is this bleed build going to function for the raids when Blizzard is basically forcing Mastery on you regardless if you like it or not? Right now it's easy getting Versa+Crit by either drops or crafting it yourself, but when you're raiding, you won't really be wearing anything else but your tier pieces. 

Edited by Calamity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Calamity said:

Howdy mates. Has anyone looked at the Rogue Doomblade pieces in the raids for Legion? Most of everything is Mastery + Crit or Haste - - versatility is few and far in between, and almost non-existent. How is this bleed build going to function for the raids when Blizzard is basically forcing Mastery on you regardless if you like it or not? Right now it's easy getting Versa+Crit by either drops or crafting it yourself, but when you're raiding, you won't really be wearing anything else but your tier pieces. 

It's unfortunate when it happens, but sometimes your tier just has TERRIBLE stats. Maybe things will change before NH releases!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/9/2016 at 4:44 PM, Calamity said:

Howdy mates. Has anyone looked at the Rogue Doomblade pieces in the raids for Legion? Most of everything is Mastery + Crit or Haste - - versatility is few and far in between, and almost non-existent. How is this bleed build going to function for the raids when Blizzard is basically forcing Mastery on you regardless if you like it or not? Right now it's easy getting Versa+Crit by either drops or crafting it yourself, but when you're raiding, you won't really be wearing anything else but your tier pieces. 

This is part of the reason that Assassination doesn't scale as well as the other 2 specs as we get further into raid tiers.

When / if you start pushing into Mythic content, Sub catches up to and eventually passes Sin's potential output, mostly due to the fact that Sin has 2 stats that are effectively useless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Lev

@Furty

First thank you for the guide, it is extremely helpfull !!

One question, levelling you artifact weapon, whih spec would you focus on ? 

Thanks for your answer.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Guest Lev said:

@Furty

First thank you for the guide, it is extremely helpfull !!

One question, levelling you artifact weapon, whih spec would you focus on ? 

Thanks for your answer.

 

This comment thread is reserved for comments about the Assassination guide. If you'd like to ask other questions you're welcome to come on over to the Rogue Forums and chat there.

That said, the most beneficial choice as it stands right now is Outlaw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Malhier

The opener sequence can't be right, can it?

I mean, you don't have any combo points generated for the Vanish/Rupture, and only three CPs for the first Rupture?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Guest Malhier said:

The opener sequence can't be right, can it?

I mean, you don't have any combo points generated for the Vanish/Rupture, and only three CPs for the first Rupture?

No I don't believe it's quite correct, however you should be Vanishing before using Rupture for the bonus damage from stealth thanks to the Nightstalker talent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Lev
3 hours ago, Carrn said:

No I don't believe it's quite correct, however you should be Vanishing before using Rupture for the bonus damage from stealth thanks to the Nightstalker talent.

opening sequence is correct :)

idea behind is to capitalize on the pandemic effect:

- you apply a 3 combo point rupture, than you proc all you cd's, then vanish (3 secs with 50% damage increase)

- you generate combo point up to 6 with mutilate and you rupture (full extended by pandemic duration of rupture buffed 50%)

- you exsanguinate

This will maximise the damage potential of exsanguinate.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Guest Lev said:

opening sequence is correct :)

idea behind is to capitalize on the pandemic effect:

- you apply a 3 combo point rupture, than you proc all you cd's, then vanish (3 secs with 50% damage increase)

- you generate combo point up to 6 with mutilate and you rupture (full extended by pandemic duration of rupture buffed 50%)

- you exsanguinate

This will maximise the damage potential of exsanguinate.

 

 

 

I understand the idea, however there is nothing in the opening sequence that lists anything to do with generating combo points, which makes it not quite correct

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a question about this part of artifact traits guide

Quote

Moving into IconMaster Assassin will allow you to use Vendetta IconVendetta more often, which boosts your single target noticeably and has much better synergy with Exsanguinate IconExsanguinate.

How does it actually boosts? I mean - isn`t better to overlap it with vanish-rupture-exanguinate combo? Or better using it on cd with non-vanished rupture-exanguinate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MrOger said:

I have a question about this part of artifact traits guide

How does it actually boosts? I mean - isn`t better to overlap it with vanish-rupture-exanguinate combo? Or better using it on cd with non-vanished rupture-exanguinate?

At 1:30 cooldown, you can line it up with every second Exang, which is really great. I don't think it no longer lining up with Vanish is all that big a deal, since ultimately you'll get to use it more often during a fight, and the bonus damage from Vanish will still happen 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JPax

Hmm, I still can't see why versatility pulls ahead of haste. Sure it's a flat damage increase, but haste offers:

-Innate energy regeneration improvements.

-More ticks for bleed DoT's which means higher stand-alone damage and increased energy regeneration allowing more fluid skill use.

-More applications of poison during Kingsbane through auto attacks and ability casts, increasing it's damage buff and increasing it's DoT damage.

 

I can see that Versatility scales better on a flat value, but does it outweigh all of the above?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Guest JPax said:

Hmm, I still can't see why versatility pulls ahead of haste. Sure it's a flat damage increase, but haste offers:

-Innate energy regeneration improvements.

-More ticks for bleed DoT's which means higher stand-alone damage and increased energy regeneration allowing more fluid skill use.

-More applications of poison during Kingsbane through auto attacks and ability casts, increasing it's damage buff and increasing it's DoT damage.

 

I can see that Versatility scales better on a flat value, but does it outweigh all of the above?

In short, yes.

Energy regen doesn't matter all that much, since you refund a fair amount through finishers and Venomous Wounds.

It actually doesn't have that much of an impact on our bleeds, certainly not as much as a flat % increase does

Fact is our poisons do a minuscule amount of damage compared to Rupture, and that includes Kingsbane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JPax
19 hours ago, Carrn said:

In short, yes.

Energy regen doesn't matter all that much, since you refund a fair amount through finishers and Venomous Wounds.

It actually doesn't have that much of an impact on our bleeds, certainly not as much as a flat % increase does

Fact is our poisons do a minuscule amount of damage compared to Rupture, and that includes Kingsbane

And they're nerfing kingsbane too..... fair enough, it just feels off that I'm currently sat with a lot of waiting for energy to recharge. Incidentally, how do you mean we refund energy through finishers? Assassination doesn't get energy back from using them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The short answer is no, not really. The main reason is that the damage from Rupture is so absurdly high, and increasing that by 50% more is great.

Garrote is a good skill, but doesn't do anywhere near the damage that Rupture does

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Starym
      With a minor 10.2.7 fix we move right into the Remix stuff, as there's improvements to rare elite respawn and treasure, quests, dungeons and the open world. We also have Cataclysm Classic fixes, as honor vendors return, the high level PvP gear gets downgraded, quests get improved and more.
      May 22 (Source)
      Non-Player Characters
      Doc Nanners in Valdrakken will again offer players "A Cataloger's Paradise" upon reaching Renown 8 with the Dragonscale Expedition. WoW Remix: Mists of Pandaria
      Added clarity to the quest "The Great Water Hunt" to speak with Mudmug before gathering water. Nostwin now sells Glyph of Shadow for Priests. Fixed an issue preventing the quest "Where are My Reinforcements?" from proceeding as expected. Improved the respawn rate and treasure from rares and rare elites across Pandaria. Increased the amount of bronze and raised the drop chance for threads of time from airborne bronze. Fixed an issue where players who faction-changed could not use the group finder for dungeons and scenarios. Fixed an issue preventing the quest “Riding the Skies” from granting the appropriate Cloud Serpent mount. Fixed an issue causing Wise Mari in the Temple of the Jade Serpent to not spawn Corrupt Living Water as intended. Hutia was out of control in the Jade Forest, and has been convinced to relax a bit and stop hitting so hard. Cataclysm Classic
      Fixed a bug preventing Diabolical Plans from dropping in Ashenvale for Horde players wanting to do “Never Again”. Cataclysm Honor Vendors should now be available in Stormwind and Orgrimmar to purchase ilvl 352 Blue PvP Gear for Honor Points. Conquest and Elite Conquest vendors will not sell anything until Arena Season 9 begins with next week's regional resets. Fixed a bug with the Thirty Tabards Fixed a bug preventing Engineers and Alchemists from making discoveries while crafting. Crafted “Vicious” gear that was unintentionally created at item level 377 has been adjusted to item level 339. In "Stonefather's Boon", the Stonefather's Boon buff duration has been reduced to 10 seconds (was 3 minutes). Fixed some quest issues. Erunak Stonespeaker should now still be visible to players who have advanced further in the quest line at the original location to turn in “Call of Duty”. “All or Nothing”, “Blood and Thunder”, and “Defending the Rift” should no longer fail to complete if you are sitting or mounted.
    • By Starym
      We have a lot more changes coming in to Remix today, starting with cloak thread rewards being added to most repeatable activities! Then there's the announced tuning for enemy damage and HP, gems and more, as well as some additional class adjustments over in Cataclysm Classic
      May 21 (Source)
      WoW Remix: Mists of Pandaria
      We have made the following changes to improve Thread of Time gain for the Cloak of Infinite Potential. Our goal with these additional items is to give players access to more Threads of Time from daily repeatable sources. These should serve as readily attainable power-ups from a wide variety of content, so players can enjoy the breadth of Pandaria while also gaining additional power. There are four new items that grant players escalating amounts of power for the Cloak of Infinite Potential: Minor Spool of Eternal Thread Lesser Spool of Eternal Thread Spool of Eternal Thread Greater Spool of Eternal Thread Players will be able to find these new items from a variety of solo and group sources, ensuring all players have accessible ways to improve their cloak: Infinite Bazaar Repeatable Dailies First-Time Daily Scenario, Dungeon, and each LFR queue World Bosses Remix Achievements Each of these achievements are available for additional characters to complete as well for bonus Bronze - and now bonus Spools of Eternal Thread. Troves of the Thunder King scenario on the Isle of Thunder We’ve made the following changes and bugfixes are intended to address concerns about the balance of low- and high-level players in various Remix content. The health of creatures in heroic scenarios has been decreased by 20% - 25%, based on the players’ levels. Higher level players will see enemies incur a larger decrease. The health and damage of creatures on the Timeless Isle, Isle of Giants, and Isle of Thunder has been reduced. Several spell gems (that were not scaling up or down correctly based on player level) have been adjusted so that they provide a more-appropriate scaling effect. This includes Cold Front, Windweaver, Vampiric Aura, and Lightning Rod. Spell gems with shielding effects should no longer cause threat. Fixed a bug with Righteous Frenzy not canceling upon the end of combat. Timerunner’s Vial mana regen significantly increased. Adjusted the reputation granted from Granite Quilen to be more in line with expected values. Fixed an issue in Guo-Lai Halls causing trap tiles to flicker.  
      Cataclysm Classic
      Players experiencing phasing issues from Wrathgate or Battle for Undercity quests that are deprecated in Cataclysm Classic should now be in the correct phase in Orgrimmar and Undercity. Hunter Hunter traps are now faster and more consistent in their arming times. Shaman Fixed an issue with Shaman Greater Fire Elemental dealing too much damage with its Fire Nova spell. Warrior Fixed an issue preventing Slam from being logged properly in the combat log.
    • By Staff
      It's official! We've seen the datamining already, but it wasn't clear what the intention was - but now we have official confirmation. Story Difficulty is coming to the Nerub'ar Palace in the War Within! 
      Players will be able to face off against the final boss of the first raid of the expansion in groups of 1 to 5, with reduced mechanics and a greater focus on the narrative. This option will become available when the final LFR wing opens up and will be repeatable. No word on whether there will be any loot involved, but it seems unlikely (aside from quest rewards). We also didn't get any explanations on whether this is a one-time thing or whether this will stay as a staple for future raids as well.
      Story Difficulty (Source)
      Hello!
      As mentioned in the article above, we’ve been working on a new raid experience for The War Within called Story difficulty.
      Throughout World of Warcraft’s history, many of the most epic moments in our stories have been told in dungeons and raids. With the recent introduction of Follower Dungeons, we’ve been experimenting with new ways for players to see those stories, especially for those who may not feel comfortable playing within the social expectations of group environments.
      With Story difficulty in Nerub-ar Palace, our goal is to offer players a way to see the epic conclusion of Azj-Kahet’s story who may not see the end to that story otherwise. This difficulty is intended for a private party of 1-5 players and will allow players to face off against Queen Ansurek without the assistance of other players or Followers. This encounter features reduced combat complexity and difficulty, instead focusing on the narrative elements of the encounter. Story difficulty is intended to be experienced as a one-time chapter in the game’s story, but is repeatable for players who want to revisit that part of the adventure.
      We currently plan to release this experience alongside the final wing of Looking For Raid difficulty, for players who’ve reached the appropriate point in the questing experience of The War Within. We’d love to hear your feedback on this feature once it’s released.
    • By Staff
      To make it easier for everyone to upgrade their cloak in MoP Remix, Blizzard added new "threads" as rewards from various solo and group activities.
      (Source)
      New! Get Wound Up in Spools of Eternal Threads
      Players can now increase their thread count with four new items that grant escalating amounts of power for the Cloak of Infinite Potential.
      Minor Spool of Eternal Thread (Grants 20 Threads) Lesser Spool of Eternal Thread (Grants 50 Threads) Spool of Eternal Thread (Grants 100 Threads) Greater Spool of Eternal Thread (Grants 180 Threads (it’s percale!)) Please note that not all Spool of Eternal Thread sources change in quality based on the character’s level. Group finder bonuses and Infinite Bazaar daily quests increase in quality as a character levels. Achievements will always provide a spool that is equal in quality to the Bronze Cache it rewards, regardless of character level. When a Spool grants Stamina, the value is doubled.
      These items can be earned and collected through a variety of solo and group activities including:
      Infinite Bazaar Repeatable Daily Quests First-Time Daily Scenario, Dungeon Finder dungeons, and each Raid Finder queue World Bosses Remix Achievements Troves of the Thunder King scenario on the Isle of Thunder. Remix Achievements are also available for additional characters to complete for bonus Bronze and bonus Spools of Eternal Thread.
    • By Starym
      There’s some pretty great final boss death cinematics out there in the many raids of WoW, but have you seen them all? Do you know what the very first one was? Well, Athelarius has got your back and the answers! He made a great compilation of all final boss deaths in honor of 20 years of WoW.
      Starting all the way back in 2007 and the Burning Crusade, when the first final boss defeat cinematic was created. The fall of Illidan the Betrayer was pretty amazing, for me especially, since I was one of the first 20 people in the world to see it! Well, outside of Blizzard’s offices at least.. We go all the way through Arthas, Garrosh, Gul'dan, and finally up to the last/current cinematic, Fyrakk’s Death, which is already 6 months old!
      It’s a pretty interesting thing to see all of them put together, as it charts the progress of the cinematics team and just how good these have gotten over the years. Let’s take a look.
×
×
  • Create New...