Caldyrvan

Hall of Fame and Dust refunds

21 posts in this topic

During the last rotation of standard I was not that much into HS and I didn't pay much attention to the Hall of Fame and the cards moved there but now that the cards which will be moved to the HoF with the next rotation have been announced I really would like to know how exactly the refunding of Arcane Dust works.

I have:

  • 3 copies of Ice Block this should refund 800 Dust (2x 400), (assuming refund is only for up to 2 copies)
  • 1 Copy of Molten Giant this should refund 400 Dust.
  • 2 Copies of Coldlight Oracle This should refund 200 Dust (2x 100)
  • That's a total refund of 1400 dust and a total dust gain (if I disenchant them afterwards) of 1740.

Now my question is, does it make sense to craft anything normal/golden of those cards? I was reading the post from last years rotation but there was no clear answer. Will we be refunded for up to 2 copies of both, golden and non-golden version or only the higher value ones?

Case 1: Assuming the refund will only be for the higher value (golden version) it would still make sense to craft, I think.

E.g. Crafting golden copies of each of the cards (4x Epic 2x Rare) would cost 8000 dust which would be fully refunded resulting in no dust gain/loss. Disenchanting them after they got moved would give 1800 Dust, then disenchanting the non golden version I already have would give me and additional 340 dust resulting in a total of 2140 dust. (this would be already a win for me, well a small one but still)

Case 2: The refund is for up to 2 copies of both golden and non-golden versions.

The non golden ones I already have would give me 1740 dust (if I dust them afterwards). The golden version of then I would have to craft would give me 1800 dust when disenchanting them after they got moved to the HoF, resulting in a total gain of 3540 dust. Even if I would keep the non golden version instead of disenchanting them would be a gain of 3200 dust.

I would appreciate reliable answers maybe include a source as well, assumptions or wild speculations will not be helpful I already did that myself :D Maybe one of the Moderators/Admins could take care of this. I am sure I'm not the only one curious about this and interested in knowing it. It would be nice if a mod could make this thread sticky, might be worth it.

(in case I messed up my math let me know)

Edited by Caldyrvan

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Master Caldyrvan, you disappoint me. Surely you could have checked the topics of last year about what happened with the first Hall of Faming?

Spoiler

Basically and unless they change it this time, you get full dust value for the max amount of cards that can be put into a deck with gold given priority. So if you have the dust, go craft those golden ones. You'll get the full refund + (regular) disenchant value.

 

 

Edited by Keizoku
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Looks good, yeah. If you have the 8000 dust to invest temporarily, you'll make a net gain of 1800 dust (or have shiny cards to play with in Wild). I'd feel that The Lich King coming... if I had 8000 dust to invest, that is!

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It really depends on whether you already own the cards or not.  

 

Take your Ice Block example. lets say you do nothing:

You will get a refund for 2 Ice Block (+800)

You disenchant your 2 Ice Block (+200)

you end up with a net gain of 1000

If you decide to craft 2 golden copies of Ice Block (-3200)

Then get a refund (+3200)

Then disenchant your 2 golden copies and your 2 regular copies (+1000)

You still end up with a net gain of 1000

 

If you don't own the cards, however,  it is better to craft the golden copies:

You start with no Ice Block, and craft 2, which will be refunded (0)

Then you disenchant gaining 200 if you decided on the regular path, but 800 if you decided on the golden path.

You will have to have the ability to invest that dust though,  which not everyone will have.

 

(I decided to leave excess copies out of the equation,  as they do not matter.  You can safely disenchant those right now)

Edited by Scizorg45

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I was trying to save as much dust as possible for the next rotation so I have the dust to craft them, I just wanted to know if it's safe to craft them.

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Sorry, your math IS wrong.

Let's do the math, with your two rares:

Case 1: If you do nothing those two rares will give you +200 dust.

You have: 2 x Cold light Oracle, non golden + 200 dust.

 

Case 2: Now compared to crafting 2 golden cold light oracles before the rotation:

Crafting costs you 2 x 400 dust = -800 dust.

After the move to Hall of Fame you gain: 800 dust.

Now you have: 2 x cold light oracle non golden, 2 x cold light oracle golden, 0 dust

-> You have 2 copies of cold light oracle in gold more, but you lack 200 dust.

Obviously you can disentchant the two golden copies, resulting in 200 dust.

After doing that you would have:

2 x cold light oracle, non golden + 200 dust

 

Exactly the same as in case 1

or you can disentchant the two non golden, gaining 40 dust.

Then you have: 2 x cold light oracle golden + 40 dust.

This time you have -160 dust as in the first case, but you have 2 golden cold light oracles instead of non golden ones.

-> If you want to get golden cards that is the way to go - for just 160 dust you transformed two non golden rares into two golden rares.

 

If you just want to maximize your amount of dust you can do nothing.

 

If you only have 1 copy of a card moved to hall of fame crafting the golden one is obviously the best move.

-> Craft 1 x Molten Giant and you have maximised your dust-gain.

 

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That looks a bit confusing but pretty much the same as my math :D

The thing why the gain from golden rare cards is so low is because the craft/dis values 800/100 which is just 1/8.

While golden epics are at 1600/400 which is 1/4.

Even if I would own none of the non-golden versions I would gain 1800 dust for disenchanting 4 golden epics and 2 golden rares after they got move to the HoF.

Then I can keep my normal versions of the cards or disenchant them as well for some additional dust.

To craft the 2nd non-golden Giant is a good idea. 100 extra dust :)

Edited by Caldyrvan

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No, it is not.

You ignore in your math that you gain dust from your existing non golden copys.

If you have a non golden copy crafting an additional golden copy (and disentchanting those later on) is exactly the same as doing nothing at all.

Let's do the same with 2 x epics, non golden:

If you do nothing at all you have after the move to hall of fame:

2 x epic non golden + 800 dust

 

Compared to crafting 2 x golden epics:

2 x golden epic crafting cost: -3200 dust.

 

Now they move to hall of fame. You gain: 3200 dust.

You have then: 2 x non golden epic, 2 x golden epic, 0 dust

If you disentchant the golden epics you have:

2 x non golden epic + 800 dust.

 

Exactly the same as if you wouldn't have done anything.

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I was never good at math :D

But I have only one normal Molten Giant, so I guess it would make sense to craft one golden of this when I plan to disenchant them, right?

Oh damn that makes me look stupid, I hate math so much, I would prefer to have political, ethical or social debate :D

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2 hours ago, Caldyrvan said:

But I have only one normal Molten Giant, so I guess it would make sense to craft one golden of this when I plan to disenchant them, right?

 

Yes, that is correct.

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Thank you :)

Also I was watching the vid with Ben Brode again and his exact words: "Just like last year, when these cards move into the hall of fame, you can keep the cards and we will give you the dust as if you disenchanted them" ... I assume since he's referring to the last year he actually wanted to say we get the full dust value, which is what the official news say. If that's the case (i know no one is perfect) but somehow embarrassing for such a big and experienced company to make such a mistake, is no one double checking it before they release a video? :D

Edited by Caldyrvan

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Ok, you guys have deeply confused me, so I want yes or no answers only.

Question 1:  If I don't have these cards, I should craft them because I'll get a refund and it will cost me a net of 0 dust?

Question 2:  If I craft/have gold copies I get refunds on the value of those?

Question 3:  Do I get both the refund dust if I have both gold and normal?

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1 hour ago, Marcawesome said:

Ok, you guys have deeply confused me, so I want yes or no answers only.

Question 1:  If I don't have these cards, I should craft them because I'll get a refund and it will cost me a net of 0 dust?

Question 2:  If I craft/have gold copies I get refunds on the value of those?

Question 3:  Do I get both the refund dust if I have both gold and normal?

  1. Yes
  2. Yes
  3. No

For a little bit more complex answers:

  1. If you do not have the cards at all, and will not miss the dust needed to do this, you should craft goldens and then decide whether to keep them or disenchant them after they rotate out. Either way, you get your dust back, together with a "free" card.
  2. Refunds from golden cards are preferred to the ones from non-golden cards. If you have 2 golden and 2 non-golden copies, you will only receive refunds from the golden ones. This also answers question 3 I believe.
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8 minutes ago, positiv2 said:
  1. Yes
  2. Yes
  3. No

For a little bit more complex answers:

  1. If you do not have the cards at all, and will not miss the dust needed to do this, you should craft goldens and then decide whether to keep them or disenchant them after they rotate out. Either way, you get your dust back, together with a "free" card.
  2. Refunds from golden cards are preferred to the ones from non-golden cards. If you have 2 golden and 2 non-golden copies, you will only receive refunds from the golden ones. This also answers question 3 I believe.

Thanks man, helps out a lot.  I got massively confused by all the different post. 

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11 minutes ago, Marcawesome said:

I got massively confused by all the different post. 

That was most likely because of my amazing math skills :D

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Again the man with the outstanding math talent, sorry I'd rather write 10 poems than calculating something :D

The cards I have refund me 1400 dust plus I could disenchant them for 340 dust. For a Total of 1740 dust.

If I craft all 5 as golden copies I invest 6400 dust and get a refund of 6800 dust (400 refund from the one normal Molten Giant I have. That's a gain of 400 dust in the end.

Disenchanting only the golden cards then gives me 1400 dust which is the same as the refund for my normal cards but this way I could keep the normal versions (in case I want to use them later) because dusting them for meh 340 dust is not worth it, imo.

Need confirmation, ... looking at you @WedgeAntilles ... :D

Edited by Caldyrvan

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Your 5 cards will refund you 1400 dust + 340 dust (if you dust them) = 1740.
Correct.

That is NOT perfect, because you only have 5 cards that you get a refund for. You definitly need to craft another Molten Giant, preferably golden.

If you keep the non-golden because it is not worth the dusting, you can dust the crafted golden Copy of Molten Giant for 400 Dust.
Resulting in:
-1600 dust crafting cost golden molten giant
+ 3000 dust refund (1 x 1600 + 3 x 400 + 2 x 100)
+ 400 dust for the dusted golden molten giant.

In the end you gained:

+ 1800 dust

And you still have the 5 non golden cards.
(that is 400 dust better then not crafting the golden Molten Giant. Because you get the golden Molten Giant for free, which is 400 dust if you dust him.)
 

This is the maximum you can get out of the refund.
 

Your example has the same end-result. You craft / dust more cards, but you gain 0 extra dust (but neither do you loose any dust compared to the example above):
 

Your example in detail:

Crafting cost:
2 x golden rare = 2 x 400 = 800
3 x golden epic = 3 x 1600 = 4800
all 5 cards: 5600.


Then you will get an refund of:

2 x golden rare = 2 x 400 = 800
3 x golden epic = 3 x 1600 = 4800
1 x non golden epic = 1 x 400 = 400

Total: 6000.

Now you can dust the 5 golden cards:

3 x golden epic = 3 x 400 = 1200
2 x golden rare = 2 x 100 = 200

Total: 1400 dust.


In the end you have:
-5600 dust for crafting
+6000 dust refund
+1400 dust for dusting the 5 golden cards.

netto gain:

+1800 dust
And you still have the 5 non golden copies.

 

Exactly the same as if you only craft 1 x golden Molten Giant.


 

To sum it up: Craft 1 x golden Molten Giant. This golden Molten Giant can then be disentachanted after the refund if you like.
The same as your example, but not as much effort.

(And even a little less risk - yes, Blizzard claimed it will be like last time. And it probably will be. But it is not 100% guaranteed. It is 99,99%, but not 100. There exists a small chance - even if infinitesmal small - that Blizzard changes his mind and the refund will have another mechanic. -> If you get exactly the same amount of dust in the end it is better to achieve this with as little dust-invested as possible.) 

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Oh, your answer is much more detailed than I expected, Thank you.

And you made me happy twice because now I found a mistake you made. Crafting/refund for a golden Rare is 800 dust, not 400 as you said, I'm sure you know that ^^ and since the crafting and refund are the same it didn't change your math and should still be correct :)

So in short, to maximize dust while keeping the non-golden cards: I Craft one Golden Molten Giant and get 400 extra dust in the end. I get no additional cards or dust by crafting any more golden cards. So it's pointless to craft more than this one golden giant.

Oh and people out there know how hard math is :D

Spoiler

 

/edit: had to include the video ;)

Edited by Caldyrvan
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So, keeping all calculations aside;

If you already have 2 normal copies of any given card, don't do anything.

If you are missing a playset of a given card (meaning 2 copies), complete it with golden copies to maximize the dust gain.

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6 hours ago, Caldyrvan said:

And you made me happy twice because now I found a mistake you made. Crafting/refund for a golden Rare is 800 dust, not 400 as you said, I'm sure you know that ^^ and since the crafting and refund are the same it didn't change your math and should still be correct :)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

/edit: had to include the video ;)

Thx for the info, I always thought crafting a golden rare would be 400 dust, not 800!
But yeah, the math itself doesn't change if the cost for dusting / crafting a card changes.

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