UE Multishot Demon Hunter

[Valks 2,373]

This thread is for comments about our UE Multishot Demon Hunter build guide.

[Guest NekoLeila]

What would be the best item to swap out for the S16 speed farming build? 

[Valks 2,373]

31 minutes ago, Guest NekoLeila said:

What would be the best item to swap out for the S16 speed farming build? 

Pride's Fall would likely be a great addition, since you're unlikely to take damage and break the effect due to the speed at which enemies die to your MS. The reduction applies to Discipline and Hatred costs, so it's very useful.

[Guest Trexx420]

I'm  definitely gonna be play testing cindercoat in cube and magefist. Idk how much fire dmg% that is with the amulet and bracers, but it should be a fun build. ?

[Guest Nerph]

I'm actually looking forward to using both Gune's & Cindercoat. That has always been what bothered me the most about the MS build.

When playing arsenal MS and having Cindercoat active ,i would recommend switching the Vault rune to fire though. The discipline cost gets reduced (by the same amount) and it also applies when we only use Vault once. For the cost reduction with Tumble, one is forced to always use it twice in a row. ...also imo it looks a lot better ?

[SorraDude 0]

I can't wait to see where this build goes... I'm brand new this season to d3, and i started as an n6m4 sentry build; but this is so much better! its more beginner friendly and easier to manage. quite a lot of options on your amulet skill drop, it could open up some options for the build. 

[huntress 8]

On 1/19/2019 at 5:44 AM, Guest Trexx420 said:

I'm  definitely gonna be play testing cindercoat in cube and magefist. Idk how much fire dmg% that is with the amulet and bracers, but it should be a fun build. ?

No NO NO NO NO.  

wear cindercoat.  Cube magefist.  If you must.  I do not recommend it.  

If you cube cindercoat, you *only* get the RCR for fire spells, and NOT the % bonus dmg for fire.  

Cubing magefist and wearing cindercoat will mean:

up to 40% more fire dmg

but, will mean from a negative point of view that you will lose 12 discipline on chest (only cloaks can roll discipline), and visage of gunes in cube (big loss of DR).  

UE MS is already fragile, no need to make it even more so imho!!!!

You sadly cannot wear both...even with the free RORG for s16...

[Guest Achilles57]

Elemental damage has pretty drastic diminishing returns past 40%. Do NOT wear Cindercoat and forgo the 12 discipine in S16. IMO, the best compromise is to wear a good Gunes and cube Cinder. Change the Vengeance rune to Seethe and resource costs become much more manageable even w/a Yang's that rolled low RCR. MS damage percent is also a must on helm, quiver, and boots; these are huge damage buffs and have to be integrated as you refine your gear.

[Valks 2,373]

On 2/7/2019 at 4:30 PM, Guest Achilles57 said:

Elemental damage has pretty drastic diminishing returns past 40%. Do NOT wear Cindercoat and forgo the 12 discipine in S16. IMO, the best compromise is to wear a good Gunes and cube Cinder. Change the Vengeance rune to Seethe and resource costs become much more manageable even w/a Yang's that rolled low RCR. MS damage percent is also a must on helm, quiver, and boots; these are huge damage buffs and have to be integrated as you refine your gear.

Keep in mind that you need to consider additive vs. multiplicative styles of damage too. Disc is additive, elemental is additive within elemental calculations, but multiplicative with other forms of damage. The increase will depend on how much you have of each of these compared damage increases.

[Guest MS Pushing 100+]

Nevermind, my bad.

[kroki 0]

would cubed zodiac ring be much worse than cubed convention of elements? i really enjoy the cooldown reduction

[Guest Elwyn]

Why not use the other set ring (compose rose + amulet) freeing a finger slot to use Stone of Jordon for the elemental dmg and the extra discipline?

Seeing that it is one of the few rings that can rol discipline and elemental dmg, it seems that Stone of Jordan will be a huge dmg boost (12 discipline advances your dmg with 4200% and thats not taking in account the extra dmg from the elemental prefix). 

[Guest Shimon]

I would like to know if it is worth using SOJ now to increase 3500% damage in discipline.

[Valks 2,373]

On 3/5/2019 at 12:25 PM, Guest Elwyn said:

Why not use the other set ring (compose rose + amulet) freeing a finger slot to use Stone of Jordon for the elemental dmg and the extra discipline?

Seeing that it is one of the few rings that can rol discipline and elemental dmg, it seems that Stone of Jordan will be a huge dmg boost (12 discipline advances your dmg with 4200% and thats not taking in account the extra dmg from the elemental prefix). 

So, this gets brought up fairly often and, despite what you might think, F+R is still better than SoJ + Walk set, mainly because of the differences between additive and multiplicative damage types.

Additive damage bonuses are included in the damage equation and are summed together with other sections to be a part of it, while Multiplicative damage bonuses are a separate bonus that is multiplied against the entire damage equation.

Unhallowed Essence's set bonus is an example of Multiplicative damage when added to the equation, but is additive within itself, meaning that as you gain more Discipline, you gain less damage each time. A good way to look at this is:

If you have 100 Discipline, you gain 10,000% damage, since each point of Disc gives 100% additional damage. If we add another 10 Discipline, we should get another 1000% damage increase, right?

In reality, that's not happening. We already have 100 Discipline and we are going up to 110, meaning we end up (in terms of the actual damage equation) only gaining 10/110 increased damage, which is around 9.1% increase. This is why stacking Discipline gets worse as you make your way into higher amounts of it, especially when compared with Focus and Restraint, which is a pureply multiplicative buff to damage dealt. You end up having:

Your Damage * 1.5 (Focus) * 1.5 (Restraint)

This ends up in a 2.25x (125% increase) buff for output. It's considerably worse to be using Endless Walk from a damage perspective.

[Valks 2,373]

14 hours ago, Guest Shimon said:

I would like to know if it is worth using SOJ now to increase 3500% damage in discipline.

See above.

[Guest Colakorken]

You cannot roll all res stat on the unholy plates as stated in bis table

[Guest Colakorken]

On 4/4/2019 at 7:58 PM, Guest Colakorken said:

You cannot roll all res stat on the unholy plates as stated in bis table

Sorry for last the post, you cant get all resist from rolling, however you can get all resist when you identify it. Might be a bug, not sure if it was intended.

[Guest Jetah]

So you list an amulet with a random passive but never mentioned which passive to get or the mouseover on the item doesn't show which passive to aim for.

[Valks 2,373]

22 hours ago, Guest Jetah said:

So you list an amulet with a random passive but never mentioned which passive to get or the mouseover on the item doesn't show which passive to aim for.

This is in the guide:

[Guest Diamond]

Is the 200% damage from Yang and Dead man additive or multiplicative?

If it's additive, is the 15% multishot from helm and quiver worth it over let's say vitality or area damage?

[Guest Rancid Timekiller Ch]

Focus and Restraint got me killed and seemed to do less damage then my royal ring of grandeur cubes and using the damage reduction tumble ring(forgot the name) and Convention of elements and wearing cider coat. Frankly I now question the ideals behind all your builds. I encourage everyone to try the above set up and see how much more damage you have and how your surviving higher greater rifts. It seems to me you ultimate UH focus and restraint build is a failure.

[Valks 2,373]

4 hours ago, Guest Rancid Timekiller Ch said:

Focus and Restraint got me killed and seemed to do less damage then my royal ring of grandeur cubes and using the damage reduction tumble ring(forgot the name) and Convention of elements and wearing cider coat. Frankly I now question the ideals behind all your builds. I encourage everyone to try the above set up and see how much more damage you have and how your surviving higher greater rifts. It seems to me you ultimate UH focus and restraint build is a failure.

I'm sorry but this is mathematically impossible for RoRG/Elusive Ring/CoE and Cindercoat to do more damage than F+R and CoE.

It is impossible. Both setups use CoE, so we can remove that from the equation. That means you are comparing:

Focus and Restraint - 1.5*1.5 = 2.25 Multiplier on all damage dealt.

RoRG (adds no damage), Elusive Ring (adds no damage) and Cindercoat - 15-20% more Fire Damage and 23-30% RCR.

If you were playing on Hardcore, then yes, going for the damage reduction of Elusive Ring can definitely be helpful, but it is impossible to deal more damage than F+R with the setup you listed.

[Guest Rancid Timekiller Ch]

On paper I bet the math shows focus and restraint do more damage. However since I fire like an army guy- spray and pray- not a good 1 shoot 1 spill devil pup... I blow up all my juice with focus and restraint and the other exact skills and gear for the UH guide. However the cindercoat allows me almost unlimited fire so I shoot multi shoot more and increase my dps. I also die less with the elusive ring... so I got a greater rift 90 done with that build when the guide build would get me killed when I ran out of hatred and got overrun... so I stand by my belief that the UH build guide- at least for lame players - is better- even when you have enough skills to shoot a regular evasive fire to keep up the two ring buffs.... 

[Valks 2,373]

On 6/4/2019 at 3:22 PM, Guest Rancid Timekiller Ch said:

On paper I bet the math shows focus and restraint do more damage. However since I fire like an army guy- spray and pray- not a good 1 shoot 1 spill devil pup... I blow up all my juice with focus and restraint and the other exact skills and gear for the UH guide. However the cindercoat allows me almost unlimited fire so I shoot multi shoot more and increase my dps. I also die less with the elusive ring... so I got a greater rift 90 done with that build when the guide build would get me killed when I ran out of hatred and got overrun... so I stand by my belief that the UH build guide- at least for lame players - is better- even when you have enough skills to shoot a regular evasive fire to keep up the two ring buffs.... 

If that works for you, that's fair enough, I was just replying to you saying that you were questioning the ideals behind the builds because you now have more damage and this build is a failure, which is simply not true.

You can survive more, of course, but your damage is ultimately lower and you will have a lower maximum GR cap. If it works for you, that's great and you can keep using it, but in terms of optimal play, it is worse, and the guide is there to give advice based on the best way a build can be played.

[albabe 33]

Just curious if i'm losing my noodles here.

 

My older Ancient has 8 Stats, including a socket.  My Primal has 7.