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OK - so I didn't see this addressed in here anywhere, and it's always kind of bugged me... and since we've got this for the current season, I'll throw it out there:

Does the 6-piece damage bonus from the UE set boost ALL of the damage types spit out by Vengeance (i.e., the rockets)?

If not, I'm not seeing the usefulness of the Ballistics passive over Steady Aim - 100% more damage on pittance versus 20% on everything isn't even a discussion, so I have to think it does it on the rockets, too...

At the same time - do we really spit out enough rockets to justify them getting x2 damage versus our main attacks (Multishot super spam) getting a flat 20% boost? The only other passive I would think to be useful would be Single Out to thump Rift Guardians/Bosses.

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Hey there! The damage of rockets (both from MultishotMultishotArsenalArsenal and VengeanceVengeance ) are absolutely getting amplified by BallisticsBallistics , and the passive is a full 100% damage multiplier to them (not an additive damage increase). You will have to take my word for it (or go for the full on calculation! 😄 ), but it works out to a meaningfully larger damage increase.

Note that for the absolute highest tiers of pushing with a Multishot build, DHs alter to MultishotMultishotFull BroadsideFull Broadside and gamble on massive pulls of trash enemies for Area Damage procs, leaving elites as collateral. This form of setup, as described in the Skill section,  drops BallisticsBallistics for a defensive/utility passive ( AwarenessAwareness , Numbing TrapsNumbing Traps ...)

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On 5/4/2021 at 8:35 AM, Deadset said:

Hey there! The damage of rockets (both from MultishotMultishotArsenalArsenal and VengeanceVengeance ) are absolutely getting amplified by BallisticsBallistics , and the passive is a full 100% damage multiplier to them (not an additive damage increase). You will have to take my word for it (or go for the full on calculation! 😄 ), but it works out to a meaningfully larger damage increase.

Note that for the absolute highest tiers of pushing with a Multishot build, DHs alter to MultishotMultishotFull BroadsideFull Broadside and gamble on massive pulls of trash enemies for Area Damage procs, leaving elites as collateral. This form of setup, as described in the Skill section,  drops BallisticsBallistics for a defensive/utility passive ( AwarenessAwareness , Numbing TrapsNumbing Traps ...)

Well, ok... but that wasn't what I was asking - I was asking if the 6-piece bonus from the UE set boosted ALL the damage outputs from Vengeance (bullets AND rockets). I brought up Ballistics because if the Vengeance rockets weren't getting the 6-piece bonus, then giving them just the Ballistics 100% bonus was pointless from a DPS standpoint, especially as you pointed out that the upper echelon build gets rid of the MS rockets in favor of pure MS damage increase.

However, past that - this build is still... horrifically squishy. I have every piece of the build, almost all Ancient (10 of 13), with Life% and Vitality in the slots suggested for it, and at P800, have only ~495k health. At GR99 where I currently am, anything with a lobbed, AOE style attack will almost instantly one-shot me (Mortar affixes, Subjugators, Lacuni Huntress', etc). I have more survivability from direct-fire attacks (spears, arrows, succubus homing rounds, etc) as I use Kormac, the immortal meat shield, so he's able to intercept a lot of what would otherwise try and hit me, but progress is now entirely dependent on lucky Rift composition, and that shouldn't be the case for another 20-30 GR levels.

I was hoping now that I've reached the "everything is Dex or Vit" Paragon levels that I would be able to start pushing Dex - as the first 100 points all went into Vitality to reach the health pool I'm at, and it obviously isn't enough... I would almost go as far as to suggest using The Star of Azkaranth as the primary amulet for the build (if for no other reason after the fire immunity than it also comes with guaranteed CDR, so you don't have to spend a slot on your other equipment for that).

Squirt's and BoW are a pure DPS build, with not only NO inherent survivablility, but a penalty to it (Squirt's 50% damage taken increase)... my counter to this is... you can't do DPS if you're dead. You may do LESS DPS with other pieces, but... you're still alive and doing it. I'm seriously considering a shift to Endless Walk + Elusive Ring for jewelry.

Endless Walk + Elusive Ring gives you:
1) As you approach a new enemy pack, you are moving, and therefore are at full EW defense buff, when you are facing the greatest number of living enemies
2) If you Vault back from the pack once you engage them, you trigger ER's defense buff - then begin fixed firing from where you land, beginning to taper EW's defense buff and ramping up it's offense buff (as ER takes over the defensive duties)
3) After ~7 seconds (or less), either everything is dead, or you need to reposition as enemies have closed on you - Vaulting to a new position and re-applying the ER defense buff, while only momentarily rolling the EW buff back slightly.

Rolls for the pieces are a wash - BoW has guaranteed sockets, but TTP has guaranteed Crit Damage and ER has guaranteed Crit%. With either set, you're probably going to be fishing at Myriam for a stat.

 

Edited by Sableflame

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23 hours ago, Sableflame said:

Well, ok... but that wasn't what I was asking - I was asking if the 6-piece bonus from the UE set boosted ALL the damage outputs from Vengeance (bullets AND rockets). I brought up Ballistics because if the Vengeance rockets weren't getting the 6-piece bonus, then giving them just the Ballistics 100% bonus was pointless from a DPS standpoint, especially as you pointed out that the upper echelon build gets rid of the MS rockets in favor of pure MS damage increase.

However, past that - this build is still... horrifically squishy. I have every piece of the build, almost all Ancient (10 of 13), with Life% and Vitality in the slots suggested for it, and at P800, have only ~495k health. At GR99 where I currently am, anything with a lobbed, AOE style attack will almost instantly one-shot me (Mortar affixes, Subjugators, Lacuni Huntress', etc). I have more survivability from direct-fire attacks (spears, arrows, succubus homing rounds, etc) as I use Kormac, the immortal meat shield, so he's able to intercept a lot of what would otherwise try and hit me, but progress is now entirely dependent on lucky Rift composition, and that shouldn't be the case for another 20-30 GR levels.

I was hoping now that I've reached the "everything is Dex or Vit" Paragon levels that I would be able to start pushing Dex - as the first 100 points all went into Vitality to reach the health pool I'm at, and it obviously isn't enough... I would almost go as far as to suggest using The Star of Azkaranth as the primary amulet for the build (if for no other reason after the fire immunity than it also comes with guaranteed CDR, so you don't have to spend a slot on your other equipment for that).

Squirt's and BoW are a pure DPS build, with not only NO inherent survivablility, but a penalty to it (Squirt's 50% damage taken increase)... my counter to this is... you can't do DPS if you're dead. You may do LESS DPS with other pieces, but... you're still alive and doing it. I'm seriously considering a shift to Endless Walk + Elusive Ring for jewelry.

Endless Walk + Elusive Ring gives you:
1) As you approach a new enemy pack, you are moving, and therefore are at full EW defense buff, when you are facing the greatest number of living enemies
2) If you Vault back from the pack once you engage them, you trigger ER's defense buff - then begin fixed firing from where you land, beginning to taper EW's defense buff and ramping up it's offense buff (as ER takes over the defensive duties)
3) After ~7 seconds (or less), either everything is dead, or you need to reposition as enemies have closed on you - Vaulting to a new position and re-applying the ER defense buff, while only momentarily rolling the EW buff back slightly.

Rolls for the pieces are a wash - BoW has guaranteed sockets, but TTP has guaranteed Crit Damage and ER has guaranteed Crit%. With either set, you're probably going to be fishing at Myriam for a stat.

 

May I ask how high you are pushing?  The build is squishy I will admit, but unless you are pushing very high, it's not as bad as what you describe.  I would never recommend using squirts in the build though.  I guess if you have mega paragon maybe, but not at your p800.  

I haven't played UE MS in a fair while, having migrated to s6 impale a long time ago, but you should be able to hit at least GR115, if not 120 before it starts to show problems with the build imho.

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1 hour ago, huntress said:

May I ask how high you are pushing? 

 

On 5/13/2021 at 7:58 PM, Sableflame said:

At GR99 where I currently am,

 

1 hour ago, huntress said:

but you should be able to hit at least GR115, if not 120

 

On 5/13/2021 at 7:58 PM, Sableflame said:

progress is now entirely dependent on lucky Rift composition, and that shouldn't be the case for another 20-30 GR levels

... it's almost like everything you wanted to know, and everything you said... I already said 😐

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23 hours ago, Sableflame said:

 

 

 

... it's almost like everything you wanted to know, and everything you said... I already said 😐

I've been there and done it.  GR99 is not very high.  You should be able to push higher.  RNG luck happens in any GR, whether it's a GR99 or a GR125.  Welcome to the fun part of the game. 

From memory (and it's prolly been 2 or 3 years since my last UE 'push') I did a GR99 with 50/50 ancient gear/non-ancient, no augments, p1000 and gems around rank 70-80 - with 6 mins to spare.  i.e. I did it easy.  And, I remember the maps, they were bad (barracks, halls of storm).

I'm guessing your play style is bad if you are struggling with Gr99.  Without seeing your play style, it's hard for me to comment further.  Can you provide a d3planner link for your gear/skills please?

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