wow Shadowlands Mythic Season 1 End-of-Run Rewards Capped Below Castle Nathria Heroic Item Level

[Stan 4,868]

End-of-run rewards in Mythic Season 1 are capped below Heroic difficulty Castle Nathria loot in Shadowlands.

The maximum item level of rewards in Shadowlands Mythic Season 1 from the Great Vault weekly chest is 226, and the maximum end-of-run reward is capped at item level 210, which is 3 item levels below Heroic Difficulty Castle Nathria loot. Note that you will only receive one item per Mythic+ run in Shadowlands and one Mythic +14 clear will suffice for 226 loot in next week's chest.

Difficulty Level	End-of-Run Reward Item Level	Weekly Reward Item Level
Mythic +1	183	0
Mythic +2	187	200
Mythic +3	190	203
Mythic +4	194	207
Mythic +5	194	210
Mythic +6	197	210
Mythic +7	200	213
Mythic +8	200	216
Mythic +9	200	216
Mythic +10	204	220
Mythic +11	204	220
Mythic +12	207	223
Mythic +13	207	223
Mythic +14	207	226
Mythic +15	210	226

For comparison, here is the item level of rewards from the Castle Nathria raid. The last two bosses drop better loot from the rest of the raid.

• Raid Finder Difficulty: Item Level 187-194
• Normal Difficulty: Item Level 200-207
• Heroic Difficulty: Item Level 213-220
• Mythic Difficulty: Item Level: 226-233

[Mishmish 65]

So that means you HAVE to raid to push higher then max loot keys? Ugh, disgusting. Blizz, come on, m+ is popular and fun, mythic raiding far less so, let those who love either focus on either. This is exactly how  BFA's pvp was mangled. 

Having some exceptional trinkets locked in raids is one thing, but this... Hope it gets changed asap. 

[Kaelshazar 3]

I'd love to see the decision logic behind this one. Is M+ content as a way of progressing your ilvl not a thing now?

I can agree with the thought that M+ should not reward the complete same as Mythic raiding, but someone in heroic gear shouldn't be able to just stomp through a M+15. I always though of M+15 as some of the hardest M+ content.

What level does heroic dungeons give now? Are they even worth running literally at all?

[KDF 26]

Actually, this sounds excellent. (Speaking as someone who does both mythic+ and raiding.)

It doesn't require raiding for m+'ers. Loot at the level of mythic raid will be available at a reasonable rate through the weekly chest. You just can't spam dungeons and get it all in one week. 

One of the biggest problems for heroic raiding in BfA was that the whole guild could basically out-gear the raid by week 2, making early progression too trivial and completely eliminating motivation for re-running the raid on farm. Keeping end-of dungeon loot just under heroic raid in ilvl will solve that problem, while the weekly chest allows for m+ progression over the course of the season.

Tl;dr this is a workable solution to the problem of the m+ loot pinata. I'm sure some won't like it, but it's a better balance than we had before. 

[SidonisAntares 285]

53 minutes ago, KDF said:

Actually, this sounds excellent. (Speaking as someone who does both mythic+ and raiding.)

It doesn't require raiding for m+'ers. Loot at the level of mythic raid will be available at a reasonable rate through the weekly chest. You just can't spam dungeons and get it all in one week. 

One of the biggest problems for heroic raiding in BfA was that the whole guild could basically out-gear the raid by week 2, making early progression too trivial and completely eliminating motivation for re-running the raid on farm. Keeping end-of dungeon loot just under heroic raid in ilvl will solve that problem, while the weekly chest allows for m+ progression over the course of the season.

Tl;dr this is a workable solution to the problem of the m+ loot pinata. I'm sure some won't like it, but it's a better balance than we had before. 

My only issue here, in fairness to those who do not raid, is that the Mythic Stoneborn Generals and Sire Denathrius drop weapon/shield/offhand tokens that are 233 ilvl, providing a significant edge in clearing high end keys. If the weekly vault does not have a chance to drop an equivalent token when +14/15 is your lowest of 1/4/10 M+ completed for the week, then it provides a distinct advantage to raiders to make the timer on the M+ leaderboards.

Edit - and even if this were the case, you have to run 1/4/10 +15 keys in a week in order to guarantee that you have the best shots at a 233 weapon/shield/offhand. If you run 9 +15 and 1 +13 for example, you're SOL and unlocking 223 ilvl items for your M+ row

Edit #2 - I realize there are other drops on those two bosses, but weapon/shield/offhand drops are a bit more significant in the equitable argument being made.

Edited September 16, 2020 by SidonisAntares

[Hvitarelgur 5]

38 minutes ago, KDF said:

It doesn't require raiding for m+'ers. Loot at the level of mythic raid will be available at a reasonable rate through the weekly chest. You just can't spam dungeons and get it all in one week. 

Excuse me, what?

Explain to me how I am supposed to stay competitive in high M+ with people who get pulled through heroic raids by their guild?
Oh, I am sorry, obviously I will wait for all my slots to be filled by the weekly chest in half a year. The chest, which I can't even fully get at SL start because my shitty M+ gear will not allow me to complete 10 times +15 in one week.
Because gearing by "spamming" dungeons would have been so easy with M+ now only rewarding one item per dungeon. Please tell me how many hours of getting up keys and then doing +15 dungeons you need to get into one week until your whole M+ group is fully geared, because that is apparently so easy. At the start of the expansion when +15 is still new and kind of difficult.
But the 32 +15 bosses and the M+ trash mechanics are a lot easier than the 8 heroic raid bosses, I know.

[Mertzaskertz 1]

Those complaining about not getting mythic gear in mythic plus dungeons is like people complaining they can't get heroic gear from world quests. Mythic Raid is the hardest curated content in the game, it should have the best rewards. If you don't have time to do it, you don't get the reward.

[KDF 26]

18 minutes ago, SidonisAntares said:

If you run 9 +15 and 1 +13 for example, you're SOL and unlocking a 223 ilvl item.

I'm pretty sure that's not how the chest options work. You'd still get two options at 226 for your top 1 and top 4th finishes, plus a 223 option for your top 10th. You can't get worse lot for having done an extra dungeon.

That said, it is a fair point that 2 mythic bosses exist that will (eventually) grant mythic raiders access to a small number of loot items that might be better than can be had in the chest. 

Other options might be better solutions, like loot lockouts on m+ end-of-dungeon chests. In the absence of a better solution, the ilvl changes are still a big improvement.

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by KDF

[SidonisAntares 285]

9 minutes ago, KDF said:

I'm pretty sure that's not how the chest options work. You'd still get two options at 226 for your top 1 and top 4th finishes, plus a 223 option for your top 10th. You can't get worse lot for having done an extra dungeon.

That said, it is a fair point that 2 mythic bosses exist that will (eventually) grant mythic raiders access to a small number of loot items that might be better than can be had in the chest. 

Other options might be better solutions, like loot lockouts on m+ end-of-dungeon chests. In the absence of a better solution, the ilvl changes are still a big improvement.

 

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/great-vault-the-shadowlands-weekly-chest

4. Rewards
In this section, you will learn how the rewards are calculated and how to get better loot.

Raids: The item level of rewards in this category is based on raid difficulty. You can unlock better loot by defeating bosses in Castle Nathria on higher difficulties. We are not sure at this time how the item level is calculated in this category.
Mythic Dungeons: The item level of rewards in this category is determined by the lowest level of your top 1, 4, or 10 dungeons for that week. If you complete 1 Mythic +10 dungeon per week, your lowest dungeon is your top 1 dungeon, so you will receive an item appropriate to the item level of a Mythic +10 dungeon. If you complete 10 Mythic dungeons per week with the lowest being a Mythic +6 clear and your highest clear a Mythic +12, the rewards will be based on the lowest level of your top 10 clears, so you will get an item appropriate to the item level of your Mythic +6 clear. The item level increases when you complete higher-level Mythic dungeons.
PvP: The item level of rewards in this categories is based on your highest bracket win that week.

It's a rolling progression chart for the week. If in the above example, you completed a M+7 after your initial ten that ranged from +6 to +12, your lowest best would now be a +7. So yes, while you would still qualify in the 1 and 4 (provided four of your M+ completions are +15) columns of your M+ row, you do have to run 10 M+15 keys in time in order to guarantee that 3rd slot is as well.

Edited September 16, 2020 by SidonisAntares

[Hvitarelgur 5]

5 minutes ago, Mertzaskertz said:

Those complaining about not getting mythic gear in mythic plus dungeons is like people complaining they can't get heroic gear from world quests. Mythic Raid is the hardest curated content in the game, it should have the best rewards. If you don't have time to do it, you don't get the reward.

I guarantee you that without corruptions going wild in the prepatch, the largest part of mythic raiders cannot time a key above 22.
It's not a question of time, M+ is just not validated enough. Just scale up the rewards to +25 and not +15.
In BfA season 1, 211 groups did a run over 22. I think they could get a reward for that.

[SidonisAntares 285]

1 minute ago, Hvitarelgur said:

I guarantee you that without corruptions going wild in the prepatch, the largest part of mythic raiders cannot time a key above 22.
It's not a question of time, M+ is just not validated enough. Just scale up the rewards to +25 and not +15.
In BfA season 1, 211 groups did a run over 22. I think they could get a reward for that.

We can't just change arbitrary number reward systems, that's CHAOS!

[Baharok 226]

Im like 100% sure that this only counts for the first week and then itemlevels will again be on mythic raid quality. It was allways the case with every new release of a raid, to prevent getting a mythic itemlevel item on day one of mythic raid release.

[SidonisAntares 285]

28 minutes ago, Mertzaskertz said:

Those complaining about not getting mythic gear in mythic plus dungeons is like people complaining they can't get heroic gear from world quests. Mythic Raid is the hardest curated content in the game, it should have the best rewards. If you don't have time to do it, you don't get the reward.

Going to stop you right there. The hardest part of Mythic raiding remains what it always has been, getting 20 people to 'do the thing' while maintaining hps/dps. And the earlier in a content tier it is, the more it involves 'clever use of game mechanics' until loot catches up and better strategies are created/revealed. One person dies in a Mythic raid, you're operating at 95% efficiency until you can rez them. One person dies in an M+, and you're operating at 80% at best as long as it was a DPS and not your tank or healer. Mythic raids are not attempt locked, but in an M+ you're fighting a timer and deaths penalize your chance to complete it in time, and then your key downgrades on failure.

Edited September 16, 2020 by SidonisAntares

[Ragingwolf 274]

I rather do keys constantly than force myself for Mythic Raiding.  ? The last Raid tier in BFA on Heroic alone as a Tank really tested my patience with fellow Guildies.  This change bums me out a little but not a whole lot because I will eventually attempt to farm 14-16's per week once I get the mechanics/affixes down in the new dungeons.  Gear wise I tend not to go with the recommended because I usually get the short straw on BiS when it comes to RNG of this game and work with what I got.  The only thing that will be disappointed will be the lack of bag space when it fills up per season to balance out secondary stats.

[Bobbis 208]

13 hours ago, Mertzaskertz said:

Those complaining about not getting mythic gear in mythic plus dungeons is like people complaining they can't get heroic gear from world quests. Mythic Raid is the hardest curated content in the game, it should have the best rewards. If you don't have time to do it, you don't get the reward.

Except it's not, the hardest part in general is getting 20 people together to do it. I was CE the last 2 expacs but took a break from raiding this time around, and STILL got to 10/12 on off nights with my guild. The end bosses may be an exception to this rule to an extent but not by much.

 

Mythic raids are cleared usually within a week or two. M+ doesn't have an end, and people are still pushing higher, currently +32 is the highest on r.io. PvP isn't my thing but the higher brackets have a similarly small band of players pushing that high from what I see. 

[Dreamcatcher 62]

17 hours ago, KDF said:

Actually, this sounds excellent. (Speaking as someone who does both mythic+ and raiding.)

It doesn't require raiding for m+'ers. Loot at the level of mythic raid will be available at a reasonable rate through the weekly chest. You just can't spam dungeons and get it all in one week. 

One of the biggest problems for heroic raiding in BfA was that the whole guild could basically out-gear the raid by week 2, making early progression too trivial and completely eliminating motivation for re-running the raid on farm. Keeping end-of dungeon loot just under heroic raid in ilvl will solve that problem, while the weekly chest allows for m+ progression over the course of the season.

Tl;dr this is a workable solution to the problem of the m+ loot pinata. I'm sure some won't like it, but it's a better balance than we had before. 

It also address loot trading and item hoarding before world first race

[Mertzaskertz 1]

2 hours ago, Bobbis said:

Except it's not, the hardest part in general is getting 20 people together to do it. I was CE the last 2 expacs but took a break from raiding this time around, and STILL got to 10/12 on off nights with my guild. The end bosses may be an exception to this rule to an extent but not by much.

 

Mythic raids are cleared usually within a week or two. M+ doesn't have an end, and people are still pushing higher, currently +32 is the highest on r.io. PvP isn't my thing but the higher brackets have a similarly small band of players pushing that high from what I see. 

I said curated content. Infinite scaling or pvp isn't curated. Mythic raids don't scale at all it is curated to be a specific experience and is the hardest curated experience.

[Mertzaskertz 1]

3 hours ago, Bobbis said:

Except it's not, the hardest part in general is getting 20 people together to do it. I was CE the last 2 expacs but took a break from raiding this time around, and STILL got to 10/12 on off nights with my guild. The end bosses may be an exception to this rule to an extent but not by much.

 

Mythic raids are cleared usually within a week or two. M+ doesn't have an end, and people are still pushing higher, currently +32 is the highest on r.io. PvP isn't my thing but the higher brackets have a similarly small band of players pushing that high from what I see. 

Mythic plus isn't curated content, I said hardest curated content.

[Hvitarelgur 5]

1 hour ago, Mertzaskertz said:

Mythic plus isn't curated content, I said hardest curated content.

What does that even mean? That's just a random expression to defend your unsustainable argument.

So people are not allowed to be rewarded for an open ended experience? Please elaborate why that is. Give me one good reason why rewards should not scale to +25 with mythic gear.
Hint: It works very well in other games, but WoW raiders are so easily offended about being the elite faction of players that Blizzard can't offer alternative ways to obtain gear.
Otherwise nobody would raid anymore. Imagine this: Only the first 4 bosses of a raid give gear, the rest of the raid is just for fun. How many people would stay for the clear? That's basically what people that push above +15 do now.

[Bobbis 208]

1 hour ago, Mertzaskertz said:

Mythic plus isn't curated content, I said hardest curated content.

You keep using that word, I'm not sure it means what you think it means:

Curated:

selected, organized, and presented using professional or expert knowledge.

That describes all parts of raiding and M+ and PvP for that matter, unless you mean something else by that?

Edited September 17, 2020 by Bobbis
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