[Archived] Beast Mastery Hunter 5.4

[Guest WeeWilly]

you are welcome. Again, my thoughts ramble around. Just the way I am these days.

One thing I have noticed - it seems to be about 12 hours difference from me writing and you reading. Are you on a EU server?

Now, I am not sure where you are in the scheme of playing, but I will start at lvl 1 on Pets.

Pets - Back in the days of old, pets were chosen not only because of ability, but also because of their talents. With the last few patches and changes, a pet can be one of the 3 different talents - namely Cunning, Ferocity and Tenacity. Each has it's advantages and drawbacks. I'm not sure if IV has this site listed but the best site on pets for hunters is Wow-Petopia.com. No one has a better site that explains and shows the different pets available to hunters.

For leveling 1 to 9, you will get a pet unique to the race you pick. I believe you went with Worgen which has a black dog. Don't ever let him go! You will not find another like it. You will not be able to control him for he or she is much more of a guardian than a true hunters pet. But make no mistake, your pet will lay down their life for you. However, starting at lvl 10, you will get a bunch of skills, such sa Control Pet, Tame Beast, Dismiss Pet, Feed Pet and Beast Lore. Don't forget to use "Control Pet" at least once so you can unlock the pet control UI for all your pets. You can also name your pet! No one else can. Right click on the pet portrait and choose "rename". Don't make it a nasty name. People can complain about not only your toons name but your pet's too. (note - how do I know? Well, when I was stationed in England I had a cat named "Puss Puss" (we got her from the older lady who we rented our flat from)). Tried that here in the game and man, did I get in trouble.

Which pet is the best? That's up to you. With hunters able to change their pet on the fly to one of the three pet talents, in this day of 5.3, I wouldn't let it bother me. I like cats. I also like wolves. I don't like monkeys or gorillas or bugs or reptiles of any kind. I have a mixture of Tenacity (TANK pet) and Ferocity (pure DPS). Go to Petopia and read about it them all.

Pets also have a unique ability for each different family has. So, you do want to take that into account when you join a group. For example "monkey's have "Bad Manner". i.e. they throw something bad at the mob. Yup, it's what you are thinking.... Bears have Demoralizing Roar. Your dog has "Lock Jaw" - dog locks its jaw on the target, holding it in place for for 4 seconds. Cool huh.

[Clarification for raiding]

I just make sure cower is on, growl and any other AOE threat is turned off., keep my pet by my side until called for by the tank or by a healer getting blasted. The one thing I would like to stress is how you as a hunter interface with a tank. Make sure you go to the pets spellbook and turn off growl. Put it on the Pet UI and that way you can always turn it off when grouping or on when soloing. Growl is what takes the mobs aggro. It's a taunt to whatever you are attacking - "Hey you slimy goblin... I want to eat your babies... GRROOOWWWLLLLL".

Now you know a little about pets, you will want to collect them. "but Roo baby, I only have 1 place to keep a pet." Yup. As you go in levels you will get a total of 5 pet spots to have 5 pets on you at a time. Otherwise, you need to go the pet stables and place your current pet in there, so you can trap more.

With patch 5.3, Hunters now have 50 pet slots for saving those pets! I remember back in my day, where it snowed 20' deep and we had to walk to school 10 miles, up hill both ways... oh sorry. We didn't have a pet stables. We had to carry our pets with us. But anyway, you young whippersnappers have it much better...

Hmmm, pet talents. If you have any questions, please ask in the forums. I am sure there are better people than me, that can explain it a whole lot better. But, if you ever do ask me, I will my best to explain. Thats a promise. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

-roo (aka Wee Willy the lovesick rogue)

PS - you will find the pet talents under the "talent" tab and the pet spells (for lack of a better term) under the spell book tab. Don;t forget to read Icy-Veins papers.

PPS- you're welcome!

Edited June 13, 2013 by WeeWilly

[Guest Guest]

I'm from Turkey (which can be considered both european and asian country). I was on EU side when I wrote my previous post, but now I'm on asian continent to visit my family

My group friends are my real life friends. But everyone except me is extremely busy. So we play rarely. I also don't lvl up my main hunter character in order to keep him in par with my friends. It will be a very long run, but that's ok for me. My worgen hunter is lvl 22 at the moment.

I'm a little bit slow on learning new stuff. But, I started to understand hunters mechanics.

I try to actively use my pet as much as I can by sending him on enemy and command him to kill. I have also learned the importance of disabling "taunt" when playing in a group.

I use concussive shot to slow down the enemy if it runs towards me.

I use disengage if I got too much aggro from mobs.

But honestly, I didn't realize that I could replace pet skills on that pet bar until now! Thank you for that information!

I love animals in real life and I love them in this game. But honestly, I have decided which one to keep depending on their looks until now. For example my character is named as "Wolfkeeper". He is a worgen , he has a wolf companion and a worg pup vanity pet. All of us run as a pack during quests . (I wish there is an add-on for Worgen to disable all cloth visuals, so I could blend with my pets)

I try to collect different kinds of animals as much as I can. and store them on stables. My ultimate goal is getting a green stone Quilen which might be very hard for me even in the far future But that's my goal.

I still couldn't get the importance of feeding pet. My friends told me, in the past they used to feel their pet all the time to make it useful. For me. I rarely feed my wolf by meats pieces (cooking ingredients)

I often check http://wow-petopia.com/ but only to see how they look

Sometimes I think I should play in a RP server

Thank you and have a great day !

[Guest WoWnije]

@admins

You're BiS list is wrong on many counts as based on the stat priorities, some items is listed above / below others.

I'd re-visit the list and go through it again so that newbeginners wont get the wrong idea

[Stoove 347]

You're BiS list is wrong on many counts

Comments like this are most helpful when you can specify which slots are incorrect.

[Guest WeeWilly]

@stonegolem - Thats great! The only thing I would worry about with that invisible cloth patch is if you are in combat and revert back to human. Not a pretty sight

If you would like to chat, click on my portrait and follow the link. Thats my blog. I ramble all over the place, but will be more than happy to answer any hunter questions you might have and take a trip back down WOW memory lane to vanilla (I have been playing since the 1st week of release. I don't know it all, heck, maybe 1%, but I would be than happy to help any way I can.)

-roo (AKA weewilly)

@Stoove - you are correct! How can "a problem" be fixed, if one doesn't say where? Something like the BIS is just a guide and if one truly wants to find the BIS, then go to AMR and see what they say. Every patch it seems the BIS changes and people forget that.

PS - sorry if it looks to be the same post from the "unknowns" but I screwed up on my end and Damien is helping me grrr, hmmm, get my sh_t together so to speak.

Edited June 13, 2013 by WeeWilly

[Guest WeeWilly]

Hi guys,

Now that Blink Strike talent has been changed again, does it need to be updated in the guides? If you have already, please accept my apology

Yes, this happened this week, last Tuesday -

Talents

• Blink Strikes now has a 10-yard minimum range, and the teleportation effect cannot happen more than once every 20 seconds.

-Wee Willy (aka Roo the Hunter)

[Guest Alex]

Just wondering if BM is the best spec for hunters? cuz i have just tryed out marksmanship and BM and i am doing around 15k more dps in marksmanship then bm.

[Tehstool 10]

BM is the best single target spec for hunters.

[Guest Bumpfel]

You mentioned in aoe situations when there's 2-4 mobs that you should multi-shot to keep up beast cleave while maintaining your single target rotation; but what is the priority on keeping up beast cleave? Is the first prio to keep your single target abilities on cooldown, or is it the #1 prio to keep beast cleave up?

[Malett 0]

You would need to provide us with a proof of some kind or more explanations. What was the context of your tests?

I use Thrill of the Hunt in a pvp setting. I get extra dps from Cobra Strikes and Beast Cleave. I'm able to spam arcane shots almost continuously and throw in a multi-shot if applicable. The pet crits are really nice from Cobra Strikes. Maybe not 10K, but significant.

Malett

Eitrigg

[Malett 0]

I have a different take on BM dps. Please point out my errors as I seem to have wildly different views from the norm. I do pvp, so my views might not apply to most hunters.

I have Thrill of the Hunt to maximize my ability to use Arcane Shot.

To get an average arcane proc, I need to cast 3.33 arcane shots to get 3 free. 66.6 focus / 6 = 10.5 focus per shot with 6.33 sec elapsed time. Adjusted for a 6 sec average time, thats 6 arcanes for 63.1 focus. I've gotten procs from the free shots, but that might have been hotfixed and I didn't include it in my calcs.

Using that 6 second time -

If I prioritize kill command (6 sec cd), I use 1 sec and 40 focus for the kc. With the ratio of paid arcanes to free being 1.33 / 1.0, in the remaining 5 seconds, I cast 2.85 paid arcanes (57 focus) and get 2.15 free.

In this situation, Overall I get 1 kill command and 5 arcanes for 97 focus.

Bottom line - in my situation using Thrill of the Hunt in extended fights, arcane shot is my priority and kill command is my focus dump. Kill command has higher raw dps and burst, but a kc costs me almost 4 arcanes. With my gear, 4 arcanes is usually a lot better choice even though it's over 3 additional seconds.

Edit - I'd probably have to fill with cobra shots {fail) to recoup the focus.

I don't see how the other level 4 choices could save or regenerate enough focus to be a better choice for an extended fight. I'm making the assumption that arcane shots are best in slot, which means the other choices would need to generate roughly 34 focus (edit - I can't subtract) per 6 seconds to beat Thrill.

Edit - One additional comment regarding armor. The last I heard, +3 bosses had about 25K armor in 5.x, which amounts to a 35% damage reduction from physical damage. That tilts the scale even more from kill command towards arcane shots. In my BG pvp life, I run up against that level of armor and greater from the bosses and other players.

Edit - I open with serpent sting, but don't regen it with cobra unless i need the focus. I use an arcane + new serpent if i can.

Edit 2 - I read somewhere that the boss testing dummies had significantly lower armor the real bosses. If true, that would skew numbers tested that way. Anybody verify?

Comments?

Malett

Edited July 9, 2013 by Malett

[Unclose 2]

Regarding the new Blink Strike talent,

Speccing into this, would that lower the value of Mastery compared to Crit/Haste?

allowing to reforge more into crit and haste?

[Tehstool 10]

Regarding the new Blink Strike talent,

Speccing into this, would that lower the value of Mastery compared to Crit/Haste?

allowing to reforge more into crit and haste?

It wouldn't lower it. It would increase the value of everything since it scales with everything. It would just affect haste more because the two other talents don't scale with haste. If you have enough Real PPM gear you can go Haste > Crit > Mastery. But haste should always be better than mastery regardless.

[Unclose 2]

@Tehstool,

would you recommend Blink Strike over MoC?

and is it better to let your pet keep his frenzy stacks rather than consume them?

[Tehstool 10]

@Tehstool,

would you recommend Blink Strike over MoC?

and is it better to let your pet keep his frenzy stacks rather than consume them?

Blink strikes over AMoC most definitely. It's the best talent for BM.

What you want to do with focus fire is use it as soon as you get 5 frenzy stacks (unless you are in BW).

I just wanted to point out some stuff with the guide.You guys have this written down

Haste Rating increases the attack speed and Focus regeneration of both you and your pets (uncluding the Dire Beast pet).

Whoever was writing the guide must've hit u instead of i when typing it.

Also, I cannot find any note of going haste > crit once you have enough real ppm items + blink strikes. Is it there and I'm just missing it?

[Unclose 2]

AMOCE will gain a 40% dmg buff (current PTR patch)

would this lower BS for BM hunters?

[Tehstool 10]

AMOCE will gain a 40% dmg buff (current PTR patch)

would this lower BS for BM hunters?

It's a slight buff because of the readiness compensation, but I still see hunters using blink strike with a haste build.

[Vlad 419]

@admins

You're BiS list is wrong on many counts as based on the stat priorities, some items is listed above / below others.

I'd re-visit the list and go through it again so that newbeginners wont get the wrong idea

 

As someone else said, if you could point out what you think are errors, that would be great. Keep in mind though that we do have a mention on the BiS page (and shortly also on the stats page now) saying that Haste Rating is the best secondary stat (after hit/exp, of course) at BiS levels. So that might be it! Let us know, and thank you!

 

 

You mentioned in aoe situations when there's 2-4 mobs that you should multi-shot to keep up beast cleave while maintaining your single target rotation; but what is the priority on keeping up beast cleave? Is the first prio to keep your single target abilities on cooldown, or is it the #1 prio to keep beast cleave up?

 

Your priority would be to keep Beast Cleave up. Of course that kind of depends on the importance of the targets themselves. For example, if your "single target" really needs to die very fast, and the targets around should just get some incidental cleave damage until they eventually die, you may be better off prioritizing your single target rotation. But overall, Beast Cleave first.

 

 

I use Thrill of the Hunt in a pvp setting. I get extra dps from Cobra Strikes and Beast Cleave. I'm able to spam arcane shots almost continuously and throw in a multi-shot if applicable. The pet crits are really nice from Cobra Strikes. Maybe not 10K, but significant.

Malett

Eitrigg

 

 

I have a different take on BM dps. Please point out my errors as I seem to have wildly different views from the norm. I do pvp, so my views might not apply to most hunters. I have Thrill of the Hunt to maximize my ability to use Arcane Shot. To get an average arcane proc, I need to cast 3.33 arcane shots to get 3 free. 66.6 focus / 6 = 10.5 focus per shot with 6.33 sec elapsed time. Adjusted for a 6 sec average time, thats 6 arcanes for 63.1 focus. I've gotten procs from the free shots, but that might have been hotfixed and I didn't include it in my calcs. Using that 6 second time - If I prioritize kill command (6 sec cd), I use 1 sec and 40 focus for the kc. With the ratio of paid arcanes to free being 1.33 / 1.0, in the remaining 5 seconds, I cast 2.85 paid arcanes (57 focus) and get 2.15 free. In this situation, Overall I get 1 kill command and 5 arcanes for 97 focus. Bottom line - in my situation using Thrill of the Hunt in extended fights, arcane shot is my priority and kill command is my focus dump. Kill command has higher raw dps and burst, but a kc costs me almost 4 arcanes. With my gear, 4 arcanes is usually a lot better choice even though it's over 3 additional seconds. Edit - I'd probably have to fill with cobra shots {fail) to recoup the focus. I don't see how the other level 4 choices could save or regenerate enough focus to be a better choice for an extended fight. I'm making the assumption that arcane shots are best in slot, which means the other choices would need to generate roughly 34 focus (edit - I can't subtract) per 6 seconds to beat Thrill. Edit - One additional comment regarding armor. The last I heard, +3 bosses had about 25K armor in 5.x, which amounts to a 35% damage reduction from physical damage. That tilts the scale even more from kill command towards arcane shots. In my BG pvp life, I run up against that level of armor and greater from the bosses and other players. Edit - I open with serpent sting, but don't regen it with cobra unless i need the focus. I use an arcane + new serpent if i can. Edit 2 - I read somewhere that the boss testing dummies had significantly lower armor the real bosses. If true, that would skew numbers tested that way. Anybody verify? Comments? Malett

 

The issue is not that Thrill of the Hunt sucks. It's a nice talent in itself, but it just falls behind when compared to the alternative of Dire Beast. The biggest problem, I would think, is the large opportunity cost associated with Thrill of the Hunt - the number of global cooldowns you need to expend on its procs is very high, which means you fall behind on your Serpent Sting refreshing (which is sometimes an issue even without Thrill of the Hunt!). Manually refreshing your Serpent Sting each time is a big detractor.

 

I would also say that your testing environment is not exactly "scientific". The only way to conclusively prove that the talent is better, short of the very obvious, would be to put your numbers down into a simulation tool and see if that yields more DPS than the alternatives. Simulationcraft does this very well, and according to that, Thrill of the Hunt is not preferable.

 

Of course, PvP is a different game almost altogether, so using Thrill of the Hunt there may be preferable to you for a variety of reasons (that do not exist in PvE).

 

 

I just wanted to point out some stuff with the guide.You guys have this written down

Haste Rating increases the attack speed and Focus regeneration of both you and your pets (uncluding the Dire Beast pet).

Whoever was writing the guide must've hit u instead of i when typing it.

Also, I cannot find any note of going haste > crit once you have enough real ppm items + blink strikes. Is it there and I'm just missing it?

 

Regarding issue #1 - I've fixed it and it should go live shortly. I'm the one who wrote it and yeah, it was just a shameless typo.

 

Regarding issue #2 - it's worded as high gear level (Blink Strikes, I would say, is nigh-implied at this point), and it's present on the BiS and will shortly also be present on the stats page as well.

[Tehstool 10]

 

The issue is not that Thrill of the Hunt sucks. It's a nice talent in itself, but it just falls behind when compared to the alternative of Dire Beast. The biggest problem, I would think, is the large opportunity cost associated with Thrill of the Hunt - the number of global cooldowns you need to expend on its procs is very high, which means you fall behind on your Serpent Sting refreshing (which is sometimes an issue even without Thrill of the Hunt!). Manually refreshing your Serpent Sting each time is a big detractor.

 

I would also say that your testing environment is not exactly "scientific". The only way to conclusively prove that the talent is better, short of the very obvious, would be to put your numbers down into a simulation tool and see if that yields more DPS than the alternatives. Simulationcraft does this very well, and according to that, Thrill of the Hunt is not preferable.

 

 

I think part of the issue is that both dire beast and fervor scale with mastery, haste and crit and ToTH only scales with haste and crit. ToTH just isn't an attractive talent, dire beast is so much better.

[Guest Fincher]

Hi can you give more Details about AoE Rotation?

First, do you use focused fire for or not?

Second, which talet is better, Fervor or Trill of the Hunt and does BlinkStrikes improve AoE?

[Kemanorel 0]

Its worth noting that Rapid Fire gives Ranged Haste only, while pet attack speed only scales with Melee Haste, so it is irrelevant to Stampede and A Murder of Crows damage.

[Guest Atro]

SV is now better than BM

[Xinto 18]

SV is now better than BM

Evidence?

 

Under what circumstance?

 

There is a lot of data to the contrary, SV is more forgiving so mistakes have less of an impact on dps.

[Twinfin 0]

Something wrong with the Powershot explanation, states 800% primary target damage /400% secondary target damage, and 60-second CD. It's 600% primary target damage /300% secondary target damage and 45-second CD now. Someone could fix that :)

[Guest Scaramanga]

With the changes in 5.4 regarding Aspect of the Iron Hawk and Spirit Bond, the guide is wrong. Spirit Bond is superior in most circumstances. For instance, say we're working w/ 600k HP. Spirit Bond will net 18k HP / 2sec. In order for Iron Hawk to match this, a hunter would have to be receiving more than 180k damage every 2 seconds (180*0.1=18). I don't think I should have to explain the absurdity of a situation where 180k / 2sec is a viable scenario. 

 

It's important to note that

Glyph: Animal Bond affects the healing of Spirit Bond.

Spike damage can be best mitigated w/ Deterrence & externals.