The Help My DPS Thread

[Liarparadox 5]

Thought you quit Liquid. Are you back or is your sub just not done yet?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Thought you quit Liquid. Are you back or is your sub just not done yet?

I'm raiding on a casual basis now (10 hours per week) with the remnants of Halcyon and a few socials. Started Mythic a few weeks ago and doing ok, begin Tyrant Velhari progress on Monday.

[Lockybalboa 618]

 

Thought you quit Liquid. Are you back or is your sub just not done yet?

I'm raiding on a casual basis now (10 hours per week) with the remnants of Halcyon and a few socials. Started Mythic a few weeks ago and doing ok, begin Tyrant Velhari progress on Monday.

 

 

 

Bro me too, almost. I'm doing 9 hours a week in the PM main raid and another 9 in a AM uber casual group. Starting M Fel Lord in the PM and trying to rekill H Archi in the AM.

[Liquidsteel 279]

 

 

Thought you quit Liquid. Are you back or is your sub just not done yet?

I'm raiding on a casual basis now (10 hours per week) with the remnants of Halcyon and a few socials. Started Mythic a few weeks ago and doing ok, begin Tyrant Velhari progress on Monday.

 

 

 

Bro me too, almost. I'm doing 9 hours a week in the PM main raid and another 9 in a AM uber casual group. Starting M Fel Lord in the PM and trying to rekill H Archi in the AM.

 

I think that aside from Gorefiend (104 wipes before I joined), Tyrant will be the first boss which takes more than a few hours. Between the sheer ilvl increase and legendary rings on 20 players, bosses are falling over. Iskar took 9. Socrethar had 19 people for about an hour then was 1 shot once the 20th showed up. Zakuun was about 15 pulls. 

 

Bit of a shame really as it's not the standard I'm used to, but I did two night of Mannoroth Mythic progress before I went casual and at least that + Archimonde should still post some reasonable challenge.

[Lockybalboa 618]

I gave up super hard core a long time ago, my world race days are behind me for good I think. I'm raiding a bit softer than I really want but I have really cool people to raid with that make it worth it.

 

Gorefiend was narly, 210 total for us I think it was. Soc was about 10, Iskar the same - although we cheesed the bejsus out of Iskar.

 

Looking forward to the rest, want to end the tier a lot better than I started it.

[Liarparadox 5]

Glad you guys stuck around. Big benefit for the lock community.

[bbqnow 0]

For Urthemiel,

 

Busy at the moment but will try to get to your logs soon if no one else does. For now stick with SB: Haunt with GoSac (except the latter on Council maybe). Try and keep Haunting Spirits buff at 100% (Haunting Spirits>Regular Haunt), minimise your movement so you have more Drain Soul uptime and stop capping on shards. If you raid again please log and hopefully you will see some improvement. Good luck

We did a raid last night and I actually did worse compared to last weeks run. I will do what you've suggested and hopefully that helps out. The other lock consistently outdoes me by 10-30k, so hopefully maximizing my up time helps out. 

 

Here is the most recent fight where he outdid me by 14k https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/catV8ANKrZ9FvL2h#fight=24&type=damage-donejust for reference. I truly appreciate it, thank you for your time :)

[Guest 2nihon]

I'll try to answer a few questions.

 

 

That was more than a few, but thank you! You've given me a lot to work on and this is very helpful. I will see if my guild can take me through those BRF guys on mythic.

 

A few questions: 

 

1. I really don't understand the use of Havoc, can you explain it to me? From what I gather, I swap targets, Havoc, then swap back and Chaos Bolt, right? I guess you just need to be quick on the draw?

 

2. Are there times when you would want to save up more Chaos Bolts than two or so?

 

3. Instead of the Dark Soul glyph, what would you suggest in its place?

[Lockybalboa 618]

1. I really don't understand the use of Havoc, can you explain it to me? From what I gather, I swap targets, Havoc, then swap back and Chaos Bolt, right? I guess you just need to be quick on the draw?

 

You can do that or just Havoc your main target, switch and cast, switch back and keep on going. You can either use this with 3 casts of *stuff* or ONE cast of Chaos Bolt. You will normally use it with one CB, but if you can use it with 3 Shadow Burns it is better. Havoc the higher HP target, switch to a sub-20% target, cast 3 SBs.

 

 

2. Are there times when you would want to save up more Chaos Bolts than two or so?

 

Yes. If you are close to a trinket proc, close to needed to dumb some major damage in to something that needs to die fast, close to a DPS gain such as Gorefiend Feast or Bloodlust or second potion time. All of these are times when you would want to save up and bank some CBs. The "rule" is so you don't waste Ember Bits by capping, thats all. Also:

 

 

 

3. Instead of the Dark Soul glyph, what would you suggest in its place?

 

 

Eh...nothing. There really isn't many glyphs that are good so the options are small. I normally run Healthstone, Conflag for always getting the slow, and an open slot unless I use the open slot for Havoc. Sometimes I'll throw on the glyph that reduces the CD or increases the buff of Unending but not often.

[Liarparadox 5]

You really gotta spec into SB: Haunt. ASAP. The other lock is pretty horrible at keeping up that buff at only around 50%. That's pretty rough. That right there is going to bump you a considerable amount.

[HeadBeeGuy 11]

I'll try to answer a few questions.

 

That was more than a few, but thank you! You've given me a lot to work on and this is very helpful. I will see if my guild can take me through those BRF guys on mythic.

 

A few questions: 

 

1. I really don't understand the use of Havoc, can you explain it to me? From what I gather, I swap targets, Havoc, then swap back and Chaos Bolt, right? I guess you just need to be quick on the draw?

 

2. Are there times when you would want to save up more Chaos Bolts than two or so?

 

3. Instead of the Dark Soul glyph, what would you suggest in its place?

Just adding a little to what Locky said:

You should really try to find mouseover macros for Havoc and Shadowburn, it'll make your life much easier. Instead of target swapping, casting, then swapping again you just stay on your main target, mouse over the nameplate of the mob you want to SB or Havoc, and press your macro.

As for glyphs, Soulstone is a good one if you ever need to battle rez. I take Eternal Resolve on a lot of fights because there aren't many situations I've been in that SacPact couldn't handle. Conflagration can be useful as Locky said, especially on fights like Kilrogg.

[Centrifuze 0]

 

 

I'll try to answer a few questions.

 

That was more than a few, but thank you! You've given me a lot to work on and this is very helpful. I will see if my guild can take me through those BRF guys on mythic.

 

A few questions: 

 

1. I really don't understand the use of Havoc, can you explain it to me? From what I gather, I swap targets, Havoc, then swap back and Chaos Bolt, right? I guess you just need to be quick on the draw?

 

2. Are there times when you would want to save up more Chaos Bolts than two or so?

 

3. Instead of the Dark Soul glyph, what would you suggest in its place?

Just adding a little to what Locky said:

You should really try to find mouseover macros for Havoc and Shadowburn, it'll make your life much easier. Instead of target swapping, casting, then swapping again you just stay on your main target, mouse over the nameplate of the mob you want to SB or Havoc, and press your macro.

As for glyphs, Soulstone is a good one if you ever need to battle rez. I take Eternal Resolve on a lot of fights because there aren't many situations I've been in that SacPact couldn't handle. Conflagration can be useful as Locky said, especially on fights like Kilrogg.

 

 

Just because I loved reading this thread so much, I made an account so I could help out a bit here.

 

#showtooltip

/stopcasting

/cast Shadowburn

 

The stopcasting will help ensure you're not only getting your Shadowburns guaranteed, but will also help in stopping a Chaos Bolt cast from being wasted on a near-dead target.

 

#showtooltip

/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead]{@focus,harm,nodead][@target] Havoc

 

And this one for Havoc will cast at whichever non-dead enemy you have your mouse hovered over. If your mouse isn't hovering on said enemy, then it will cast on your focus. If no focus is available, then it casts on your target.

 

Hope this helps out!

[TheGlyphstone 0]

Help me Obi Liquid, you're my only hope.

 

Okay, got that out of my system. I'm in the first half or so of HFC H, swapping as neccessary between Destruction (preferred) and Affliction in different fights. I'm 'good enough' on most fights with my raid team, but that's not the same as 'good' - I regularly rank below 20% for warlocks of my iLvl, which is just awful. The only other warlock in the team mains pure Aff, and is very good, but not so good at explaining what he's doing differently to make him so much better.

 

Logs I captured in WarcraftLogs here, since I know they are the preferred format.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bTMz1J7mFNW26tDV

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cz46J83FA2jTwnxG

 

Some extra logs from AMR, in a 'better than nothing'/supplementary data role.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combatlog/8ec3a9d8-8296-4210-a67f-331fa5974a09/overview

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combatlog/2b916c69-ee7f-47c3-a00d-82173f8cab53/overview

 

Things in particular I suspect may be holding me back:

-Incorrect talent selection; CR seems to hurt me more than it helps on any fight other than Iskar, though it is recommended as the talent of choice almost always.

-A lack of proper Shadowburn sniping on add fights.

-Low uptime on SB:H when I'm Aff specced.

-Improper stat weighting - I'm trying to keep a set that is decent for both Destro and Affliction, since I bounce between the two.

-On a few fights (HFC and HFA specifically), the raid leader forbids multi-dotting. It makes sense to avoid accidentally triggering multiple Gorebound Terrors in HFA, HFC I don't understand the reasoning but this is still the bottom of the priority list for a reason, I need to patch personal issues first.

 

Fights I'm particularly interested in improving on:

-Kilrog Deadeye

-Kormrok

-Gorefiend

[spikeysquad 50]

For Bbqnow,

 

Have been solely looking at the fights were you do play with SB: Haunt as that will definitely bring you better numbers once you get your Haunting Spirits uptime higher. Like I said GoSac should bring you higher numbers as well but some people prefer the safety of having a pet.

 

Iron Reaver (easier to read how you are doing the basics):

 

DoT uptime on the boss should be slightly higher (though you may have been unlucky on Blitz direction) 

 

Haunting Spirits uptime only 61%. Read guides again and have a look that post #526 in this thread if you haven't. There's a bit in there about shard management. For now getting this to 100% (though some fights Nightfall doesn't happen) should be your priority. Regular Haunt has a far lower importance but if you do have shards to cast it then you want it with your strongest buffs.

 

Opener is weak as you could burst to double what you do and that will tide you over a lot longer. Firstly you miss/forget Dark Soul (DS: M).  

 

Secondly you start casting a little later than you could (though perhaps there was a ninja pull).

 

Thirdly, when BL/Hero at the start then you want DS: M (20 second ones) x 2 here. Haste is so sexy for Affliction so take advantage of it. Glyph of Dark Soul is not a good choice for Affliction.

 

Reaver casts Full Charge at 2:20 yet the 12 seconds before that you do not cast a single ability. For another 21 second after she goes up again you cast nothing (I checked if you had Artilery and it seems not). Bit later you had another 10 second gap in casting. Now you perhaps were out of range of everything but that says to me maybe your positioning was poor (or you were silly unlucky on bomb placement). \

 

Just in case this is the issue are you aware you can actually run through the fire to bombs? It should barely hurt (though test before you die and get hassle from your healers). Often it's not worth dotting bombs but Drain Soul them all for shards. Anyhow, just something to be aware of. Always Be casting! 

 

Drain Soul uptime on the low side. That's about working on positioning and minimising movement. Do you think about using your gate and teleport each fight?

 

Do you find that you need SacPact?

 

Use a second potion

 

Some things you did well though and have a good base to build from. Good luck.

Edited September 7, 2015 by spikeysquad

[spikeysquad 50]

For Suspenders,

 

The thing with Tyrant and getting overall damage is most of your damage comes from the buff in the last phase. If it is safely on farm then you want Doomguard (at least one minute to the end) second potion and double Dark Soul here. You are still playing like you are progressing. Padding/highest overall damage is a far different mindset.

 

Again you are overwriting your SB: Haunt too early and wasting shards. If you had managed your shards better you could have got 100% on Haunting Spirits instead of 83% and more regular Haunts out. 

 

If going for overall DPS then I think the only time DoTs should fall from the boss is when the add is out in the last phase and Tyrant takes only 10% damage. Clicky for your DoT profile for the boss. Your DoT uptime on the adds is pretty low as well so need to watch a bit better on your multidotting.

 

P.S. Glad to hear you are learning Destro too as it helps if you can be versatile. Two things that will make you shine above the basic rotation is using Havoc properly and sniping SBs.

Edited September 7, 2015 by spikeysquad

[spikeysquad 50]

For TheGlyphstone,

 

Which lock are you? I guess at Fredinand going by what you said about specs but please link your armoury as it does help to know where you are at with trinkets and tier sets etc.

 

Your Raid Leader will be holding you back though on the multidotting thing...

 

Oh and please ask whoever is logging (yourself actually I think) to enable advanced combat logging. It is pretty important to be able to see resource management. Do you have any newer logs? Those are quite old but not that it really matters.

Edited September 7, 2015 by spikeysquad

[isendier 1]

removed due to wrong section, Thanks Locky

Edited September 7, 2015 by isendier

[Lockybalboa 618]

I'm a sub rogue

 

This is the warlock section bro.

 

Try posting HERE and they might be able to help you.

[bbqnow 0]

For Bbqnow,

 

Have been solely looking at the fights were you do play with SB: Haunt as that will definitely bring you better numbers once you get your Haunting Spirits uptime higher. Like I said GoSac should bring you higher numbers as well but some people prefer the safety of having a pet.

 

Iron Reaver (easier to read how you are doing the basics):

 

DoT uptime on the boss should be slightly higher (though you may have been unlucky on Blitz direction) 

 

Haunting Spirits uptime only 61%. Read guides again and have a look that post #526 in this thread if you haven't. There's a bit in there about shard management. For now getting this to 100% (though some fights Nightfall doesn't happen) should be your priority. Regular Haunt has a far lower importance but if you do have shards to cast it then you want it with your strongest buffs.

 

Opener is weak as you could burst to double what you do and that will tide you over a lot longer. Firstly you miss/forget Dark Soul (DS: M).  

 

Secondly you start casting a little later than you could (though perhaps there was a ninja pull).

 

Thirdly, when BL/Hero at the start then you want DS: M (20 second ones) x 2 here. Haste is so sexy for Affliction so take advantage of it. Glyph of Dark Soul is not a good choice for Affliction.

 

Reaver casts Full Charge at 2:20 yet the 12 seconds before that you do not cast a single ability. For another 21 second after she goes up again you cast nothing (I checked if you had Artilery and it seems not). Bit later you had another 10 second gap in casting. Now you perhaps were out of range of everything but that says to me maybe your positioning was poor (or you were silly unlucky on bomb placement). \

 

Just in case this is the issue are you aware you can actually run through the fire to bombs? It should barely hurt (though test before you die and get hassle from your healers). Often it's not worth dotting bombs but Drain Soul them all for shards. Anyhow, just something to be aware of. Always Be casting! 

 

Drain Soul uptime on the low side. That's about working on positioning and minimising movement. Do you think about using your gate and teleport each fight?

 

Do you find that you need SacPact?

 

Use a second potion

 

Some things you did well though and have a good base to build from. Good luck.

First of all, thank you for the reply, it is extremely appreciated! The bit about not casting for 12 seconds was to avoid the dps loss my dots do since she takes less damage during her full charge phase. I figured it would be better. I take it I am wrong in that assumptions? I always try to prepot so I get another pot in, but my memory fails me sometimes, lol. 

 

I will get rid of that dark soul glyph and use the 20 seconds itself to the full potential. I did read that post you mentioned and next raid I will make sure to keep that DS: Haunt uptime as best as I can. GoSac will be used on single target fights from now on, just figured having a pet would help if I have to consistently keep moving.Thank you so very much for all the help. I will update next time and let you know how it goes. You're awesome! :)

[TheGlyphstone 0]

For TheGlyphstone,

 

Which lock are you? I guess at Fredinand going by what you said about specs but please link your armoury as it does help to know where you are at with trinkets and tier sets etc.

 

Your Raid Leader will be holding you back though on the multidotting thing...

 

Oh and please ask whoever is logging (yourself actually I think) to enable advanced combat logging. It is pretty important to be able to see resource management. Do you have any newer logs? Those are quite old but not that it really matters.

 

Apologies - yeah, I am Fredinand; I should have linked the logs. The second WC log was from this past weekend, but I'll provide a further update this weekend with another fresh log, and I'll make sure to turn on advanced logging this time.

 

EDIT: huh, that's odd. I definitely created that second log on Sept 5th, but it thinks the data was from August 7th. And I'm sure it's not old data, we definitely wiped five times on H Gorefiend this weekend,we hadn't even started Heroic HFC in August. So the timestamp there should be disregarded, since they are off by about a month in both cases for some reason.

 

FWIW, here's my armory link, maybe that at least can be addressed in the meantime:

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/player/us/whisperwind/fredinand

Edited September 7, 2015 by TheGlyphstone

[spikeysquad 50]

To BbqNow,

 

You're welcome. Well 12 seconds without DoTs is a very long time in my opinion but my point more was that you used no ability at all. Not Drain Soul, a defensive cooldown or even a healthstone etc. Perhaps you were running from something but then you can still cast (might take some practice to learn that if you do not yet).

 

I will let one of the more experienced locks say how long something needs to live to be worth applying DoTs (anyone have some insight?). I tried calculating it once using one of my logs but it's a bit more complicated with Affliction as you have to take into account 3 DoTs, Drain Soul, partial ticks, how often they tick, tier sets and the like. Unstable Affliction only lasts 14 seconds though (without the class trinket) so to me that says it should be definitely up for those 12 seconds.

 

For Agony the ticks hit pretty hard at max stacks so I estimated that even 2 ticks was worth it which is only about 4 seconds. Corruption it's a bit weaker so I thought more like 3 ticks which is about 5 seconds. Take all these numbers with a huge pile of salt (and add some time) as I may have miscalculated/not taken something into account but 12 seconds is an eternity to be dotless in my opinion. Though actually it's not actually 12 seconds dotless, it's more 12 seconds that you did not reapply them in and being honest I'm too lazy to check how long the DoTs were off before she went up. Anyhow, it's something to be aware of.

 

Like I said it is possible that a pet may give you more damage but since the big Affliction buffs in theory GoSac is better. Anyhow, good luck and I will be interested in how things go. Some gameplay changes take longer than other to improve but keep at it and we are here. 

[spikeysquad 50]

To TheGlyphstone,

 

Thanks for getting back to us. I think that you probably had some old fights in your combat log and hence it confused the site. Archive them/delete before your next logging. 

 

At your gear level with 4 set GoSac-CR should bring you the best results always so if it is not then something is going wrong. I am assuming you want to be the best you can be so for the new logs please stay GoSac-CR (at least for farm) and with your ember details in there too it should be easier to find the issues. Let's see if we can find out some issues now. 

 

Looking at your Iron Reaver log (I know you were more interested in other fights but will look at them next time. For now lets sort out the basics):

 

Opener very low in burst so check out a guide. Firstly, with DSI (and probably later the ring) I would definitely suggest to go to a 20 second DS. The key to a good opener is getting out as many CBs as you can while your best procs are up. You also forgot Doomguard here (as there was BL/Hero)

 

Immolate fell off the boss many times during the ground stage and for quite a while before she went flying

 

Though I can't really see your embers your CB use looks a little off. You want to be staying at around 3 ember and 3.5 embers max. If you reach this dump only one CB (or 2 if you get the 4 set thing) and not all CBs every time. When you get DSI/go into DS you can now dump all, build again and then dump (assuming you are not saving for a nuke phase coming up soon). Basically my point is more CBs in DSI first and then other procs. CBs in DS look good actually but unglyph it!

 

Each bomb phase is different but be on the look out for any Havoc opportunities and for SB sniping (and in all fights for adds. Do you have obvious nameplates and mouseover macros? Not essential but they really will boost you)

 

Quite a few gaps in casting so be aware of this. Do you bank Conflags for movement (say if you don't know what I mean). Are you standing quite close to the boss? Then you have to move less for mechanics

 

Sync second potion with DS (which you should in an ideal world also sync with ring and/or DSI)

 

Anyhow hopefully this will give you some hints for the weekend. If no one does before will have another look at the other logs and also your Affliction if wanted.

 

For Gorefiend double 20 DS in the feast with Hero/BL Doomy and your potion. Go into feasts with high embers. Havoc more SBs>CBs onto boss from adds

 

For Kormrok: DS on hand phases, go in with high embers and open with a F&B CB. Snipe SBs with pre-casted Havoc onto boss (or just go Affliction if hands die too quick)

 

For Kilrogg: Havoc and SBs are your friend

Edited September 9, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Drkdragon 9]

Hey everyone,

 

Back again, still trying to improve. I actually ranked 95% on Iron Reaver this week and I am curious where I can find that other 5%. I appreciate any feedback someone can give. Thank you!

 

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/icecrown/Lewstelamon/advanced

 

Warcraft logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wXT9WA8fF3t4CjZP#type=damage-done&source=1

[spikeysquad 50]

Congrats and from RNG is the simple answer. A slightly more in depth one seems to be your cooldown/proc stacking.

 

Sync DS: M with the ring. Sync potion with the ring and DS: M

 

Don't be capped on shards for so long (assuming the graph is correct, sometimes it isn't)

Edited September 10, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Drkdragon 9]

Thank you for the reply Spikey. I'll try to watch those procs closer!