The Help My DPS Thread

[Paracel 165]

Don't you raid Normal Mode? We've clearing it each Thursday, when raid cooldown is off, in order to get our tier pieces and trinkets.

It's just the power of warlock tier now - get 4 normal pieces and you'll see an increase even over your HC WF pieces.
2 piece is giving me 1k+ of raw DPS.
4 piece is priceless, given the amount of HoGs/CWs I get.

 

Looking through the rest of your logs, I've compared your Hans&Frans to mine last night.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9NkhmpqFfn6YzTyJ#type=damage-done&translate=true&fight=21&source=4
Whooping 40k against yours 33k. Close gear but I have 4 piece.
Same fight length and I get more HoGs than you on top of 11 CWs with 17 hits and average damage of 62k.
Sounds nice, huh?

I've also seen some of your Kromog fights.
There is one in my log link - where I play Cata.
I was unable to beat Balance Druid, however finished close with a decent gap.
CWs and decent Cata aim - 19 hits with 3 casts - were the MVPs for me.

This is a very healer-dependant fight. Be careful with your raid saves, tell your Unholy DK to get rid of Defile and use Necrotic Plague instead. I totally ensure his profane OPness on this fight.
If you won't be able to reach any sucsess with Kromog, I'd recommed you to go Normal for tier pieces. This is an actual gear check boss. Maidens, Furnace and Blackhand are even further difficult.
 

[spikeysquad 50]

Technically from this week we shouldn't be doing normal mode as a guild any more. We only raid 2 nights a week so time is limited. I have 30 kills in total on normal and heroic tier bosses yet I only have one piece (though I am sure some of them I would have been loot locked but probably still coining). It just appears that the Pala/Priest/Lock is uncommon but then I am sure that everyone says that about their own group! But yes it sounds good though in H&F the tier isn't the only thing pushing you ahead, you did play better especially with DoT Uptimes not to mention all the indepth stuff. Our bl was at 3 minutes or something silly as well as it was forgotten about hah so maybe that would have made me a bit better. At least we both lived :D but yeah I should be way ahead of the Destro lock :s and I'm not.

 

Yeah Kromog is progress for us. We only got to past first hand phase before tanks exploded. The hands seem to die quite quick though so I am considering DemServ as we may have a Boomy next raid too. The first Cata seems to come up about 10 seconds after first hands then hands come again like 1:45 minutes later or something? Timings don't fit well for Cata. Then then next question is should I glyph DS (if going Cata)?

 

Just to check for hands it's Cata in Caster then CW(s) in Meta? As I don't think they are alive long enough to benefit from full HoG. Ah well sorry this thread kinda went off the original topic but thanks for the asssistance. Will have a proper look at your log later to see how you win Paracel :) to prepare for Sunday. I believe we are 3 tanking then as well. 

[Paracel 165]

Cata in Meta with CWs, buffed by glyphed DS.

There is a feint about using Cata in opening, but timings are tight.
I've tried it a couple of times - casting withing Meta didn't gave me the result. It was like 10 seconds on CD when hands appeared.
Then I switched to pre-casting it at 2 seconds pull. It was pretty much in time - but once again, very-very tight timing.

Right now i just don't bother with it and hold Cata for hands specifically. yeah, you can't see yourself in the chart before hands, but then you're just boom - top those meters.

3 tank strat is unknown to me.

I believe tanks are dying due to lack of their CD management and healing being not enough - you are hitting a lot of spheres, probably.

At least that's what been to our tanks. Once they've been doing their stuffs right and sharing Kromog slam properly, we were OK.

[ChaosGenesis 0]

Quick question about Trinkets

 

I have Mythic Shard Of Nothing, Mythic Quiescent Runestone and Heroic Darmac's Unstable Talisman on hand. 

I normally just use QR and DUT since that's how Ask Mr Robot ranks them, but would it be worth swapping QR to SoN when using Serv/Serv?

If so, once I get Goren Soul Repository or Blackiron Micro Crucible, would I stop doing this?

 

Thanks!

[Paracel 165]

Quick question about Trinkets

 

I have Mythic Shard Of Nothing, Mythic Quiescent Runestone and Heroic Darmac's Unstable Talisman on hand. 

I normally just use QR and DUT since that's how Ask Mr Robot ranks them, but would it be worth swapping QR to SoN when using Serv/Serv?

If so, once I get Goren Soul Repository or Blackiron Micro Crucible, would I stop doing this?

 

Thanks!

Mythic SoN is cool for Serv/Serv.

In comparision to BRF trinkets, however, both SoN and QR lose hard.

GSR/BMC will be your choice along with DUT when you'll get them.

DUT is really big question for me now. I don't really know why it is simmed that good, but Liquid has said earlier that it's not really a performance window for yours MC procs.

Having mythic QR and hc DUT at my hand, I really agree with this. DUT is more about it's passive Int and usual casts buffed. It doesn't give you any real damage (talking about all that "limited resources of MC x damage buffs" playstyle design).

[Zagmoth 0]

Hi there!  I am a 680 demo warlock in need of advice.  I seem to be having some issues with DPS.  I recently came back to WoW after being gone since Ulduar, and the main issue I seem to be having(other than inexperience with fights/positioning) is the uptime of DoTs.  I tend to either have them accidentally fall off, or jump the gun and recast them too early.  While those are issues I know I can fix myself, I was wondering if there was anything else glaring someone can see in my logs for a single target fight and multi-target fight in heroic BRF.  As such I have included my most recent logs from Gruul and Darmac to see if there is anything else I can improve other than having more experience.  Thanks in advance, and please tell me I am an idiot and doing something majorly wrong.

 

Armory: 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kiljaeden/Zagmoth/simple

 

Logs:

 

Rankings:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/6950677/latest#boss=0

 

Gruul: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/z49yhcV1fmaRBvwx#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=7

 

Darmac:  https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/z49yhcV1fmaRBvwx#fight=12&type=damage-done&source=7

[Paracel 165]

Hi there!  I am a 680 demo warlock in need of advice.  I seem to be having some issues with DPS.  I recently came back to WoW after being gone since Ulduar, and the main issue I seem to be having(other than inexperience with fights/positioning) is the uptime of DoTs.  I tend to either have them accidentally fall off, or jump the gun and recast them too early.  While those are issues I know I can fix myself, I was wondering if there was anything else glaring someone can see in my logs for a single target fight and multi-target fight in heroic BRF.  As such I have included my most recent logs from Gruul and Darmac to see if there is anything else I can improve other than having more experience.  Thanks in advance, and please tell me I am an idiot and doing something majorly wrong.

 

Armory: 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kiljaeden/Zagmoth/simple

 

Logs:

 

Rankings:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/6950677/latest#boss=0

 

Gruul: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/z49yhcV1fmaRBvwx#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=7

 

Darmac:  https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/z49yhcV1fmaRBvwx#fight=12&type=damage-done&source=7

Gruul - your first Meta is very far from your first DS. Revise your opener.

MC soulfire count can be higher as well as there is too much CWs - 5 for singletarget.

Darmac - less Felstorm usages than expected. Make extensive use of Chaos Waves buffed by glyphed DS as well as spear DoTing.

Comparing it to my very own log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9NkhmpqFfn6YzTyJ#fight=10&type=damage-done&translate=trueto be exact (same length, close gear, 54k from me) I can see that I pull ahead in 3 things -

1)I got 1 Cata and 6 CWs more. Your HoG count, however, is covering that gap.

2)My CWs are 14k average more than yours - with lesser crit amount. Reverse thing is for Catas they are ~20k bigger but with bigger crit count (pure RNG for Catas, I guess)

Where did my damage come from?

That's an easy question - Dark Soul glyph. 8 casts in 7 minutes compared to yours 5 gave me more buffed CWs and Catas - eventually giving me a nice parse.

[Jimlock11 0]

hey i would like some help please

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dwYbPjt2gZrAJvkT#type=damage-done&source=83

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/taFLWAM9YHJj7VRx#type=damage-done&source=83

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/Demonorder/advanced

i would like for some tips please! if i am doing something wrong and can maximize the dps

[HeadBeeGuy 11]

hey i would like some help please

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dwYbPjt2gZrAJvkT#type=damage-done&source=83

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/taFLWAM9YHJj7VRx#type=damage-done&source=83

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/Demonorder/advanced

i would like for some tips please! if i am doing something wrong and can maximize the dps

Flamebender

Corruption uptime is low. Doom uptime is okay, but there's room for improvement for both (I believe the goal is above 95%).

You took Cata but only cast it 4 times over a six minute fight. Also, every cast only hit one target, so you would've been better off with Serv/Serv build. Cata is great if you can line it up with wolf phases. If you glyph DS, you probably need to line Cata up with DS every time, otherwise I wouldn't glyph it and use the extra time for more SFs/ToCs on the boss.

You forgot your 2nd pot.

I'm not certain on the Cata opener, but I believe with lust/hero/time warp on pull it's something like:

Pre-pot/Precast SB or SF/Summon DG->->HoG->Corruption->SB->HoG->Meta/DS->Cata(applies Doom)->SD with MC procs->ToC until out of fury->build phase, whereas it looks like you opened with Cataclysm and then used DS.

Hopefully someone a bit more versed with the lust on pull strat and/or glyphed DS playstyle can offer some advice on this.

Kromog

Corruption uptime is better here, but could still be brought up more.

Looks like you lined up Cata with hands. Once again this seems like a situation where unglyphed DS would be preferred if you're going to hold off on Cata for specific points of the fight.

You didn'the use a single Chaos Wave. This makes sense if the hands are dying too fast, but otherwise that's a TON of damage that you're missing out on.

If your raid isn't opening with lust, save your doomguard for lust or the last minute of the fight. DG benefits quite a bit from lust and does extra damage to targets under 20% health. Though it could be argued that it's safer to use on pull to guarantee you get full use and trinket buffs could potentially outweigh the execute bonus. However, save him for luster if you know it's coming at a particular point of the fight.

Lastly, I'm not sure why SF is showing up twice on your damaging abilities list. If it's because you're casting it without MC procs, then you shouldn'the be doing that.

Please let me know if I'm mistaken with any of these points. Good luck and have fun!

[Paracel 165]

@HeadBeeGuy
Regarding your question about SF showing up twice, it's because they do different damage while in Meta and outside of Meta.
You are still on point, though - amount of MC procs spent outside of Meta should be minimized.

Nice and correct feedback.

@Jimlock11

Chaos Wave is a real powerhouse with Cata. You don't have 4pc bonus, though, and you will be lacking them hard. Get it ASAP, even from Normal difficulty.
Cata build on Flamebender is advised for Mythic, as there is 4 wolves out there and raid works with bigger coordination.
Do not bother with this unstable strat on N/HC and use your comfort singletarget build - either DB or Serv/Serv. Hold some bursts for wolves, if you can.

[Jimlock11 0]

Thank you a lot guys

[Liarparadox 5]

I thought I knew the answer to this, but now can't remember my justification for it. Here's the question: 

 

"If the add/targets are going to die in a short time such that Doom will not tick, should one cast Cata in caster or demon form?"

 

I've been doing it in demon form because I'm sure that's what I've read here, for example,  a few posts above me. But why is that? Is it because the burst dmg in demon form is higher than the added dmg from corruption ticks? What if for whatever reason one didn't have DS to use with it? Still demon form or caster?

[Paracel 165]

Edit 2: checked it directly in-game.
Cata does same damage in Demon form and in Caster form.
Same goes for DS buff - it buffs your total damage regardless of you being Caster or Demon.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Paracel

[Liquidsteel 279]

You cast it in Caster form then switch to Demon form and start spamming Chaos Waves. The Corruption's you applied with Cata may also proc 4 pc.

[Liarparadox 5]

Great, thanks for the replies.

[Nicros 0]

k i have questions:

1.- if isnt worth it use DS before cata it will be better to doom the target at the beggining rotation for 5 seconds and then pop DS(glyphed)so Doom ticks will be buffed, if the adds will last like 15 seconds, example: the beggining of auchindoun challenge

2.- if i have 2 procs or 3 (ring,weapon,synergy), should i go meta and cast SF or TOC and maybe CW if i have BMC trinket in the last seconds until procs end, then go to normal rotation? saying that i already used DS in last min and have to wait for serv CD or Cata build

3.-it is worth it use CW in single target fights while DS is up or just cast SF and TOC 

i'll upload my logs and sorry for my bad english. Thanks in advance

[Paracel 165]

k i have questions:

1.- if isnt worth it use DS before cata it will be better to doom the target at the beggining rotation for 5 seconds and then pop DS(glyphed)so Doom ticks will be buffed, if the adds will last like 15 seconds, example: the beggining of auchindoun challenge

2.- if i have 2 procs or 3 (ring,weapon,synergy), should i go meta and cast SF or TOC and maybe CW if i have BMC trinket in the last seconds until procs end, then go to normal rotation? saying that i already used DS in last min and have to wait for serv CD or Cata build

3.-it is worth it use CW in single target fights while DS is up or just cast SF and TOC 

i'll upload my logs and sorry for my bad english. Thanks in advance

1. Billion of GCDs and Fury spent for direct Dooming stuff while your Cata is applying those. Certainly not worth for me.

2. Yes, that's what you usually should do. However it really depends on your current state - if DF/MC count is low and DS cooldown is soon, avoid that.

3. Discussion around has shown the answer - no it isn't. Less CWs = more HoGs = more MC procs and nice DoT damage.

[Nicros 0]

thanks man that solve my doubts

I have my logs now, feeling that im failing hard on ST fight and dont know if go affli or demo for Blackhand HC

(gruul, oregorger, hanz)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QmMPvFjRG73krTZY#type=damage-done&source=3&fight=1 

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/es/character/zuljin/Nicros/simple

[spikeysquad 50]

Nicros, on normal I personally had very similar dps with both specs though depending on how much I had to move. Personally I found Demonic Leap invaluable for both the marks and the push backs in phase 3. Perhaps you are a better positioner than I am though.

 

It seems like your logs are set to private at the moment. 

[Paracel 165]

Aff makes little sense, especially on Blackhand. All that chaotic movement and tank switch can be painful, unlike for Demo - it has both Leap and 40% Pet damage, no issues with switching and even DB may come handy, given the needs of raid.

All the Aff players are using SB Haunt everywhere, and I'm strongly opposing it when it's not multi-target fight. Your mobility is hurt by a wide margin and you can't really capitilaize on that multidot - talking Blackhand specifically.

Hans/Frans or Maidens is other and sure choice, and even Flamebender - but for pure single target and Blackhand I can call it questionable.

[Nicros 0]

alright my bad, I change it to public now

[Paracel 165]

Every single Demo fight is same issues.
1)Ton of CWs singletarget.

Convert those to HoG - uptime will improve and more DF/MC procs will follow.

2)Literally twice as much Soul Fires outside of Meta, backed up by ton of ToC.
While this can be somewhat good on Hans/Frans due to movement, it is certainly not optimal.

Totally rethink your MC procs usage. They are your main damage source, not your DF generator anymore.

[Paracel 165]

Warning : long and probably useless post ahead. Sorry for taking thread space and drawing attention, if it is so.

TL;DR all that stuff below talking Aff on Blackhand and explaining that DemServ is sli-ightly better while being easier. I'm bad with SB:Haunt and trying to prove that it is bad instead of L2P.

Blackhand question really gave my mind some treat. I got myself caught on the idea of comparing two of those builds in the exact same scenario.

Log to work with:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DRAfZ1dmrNt9xvHQ#fight=9&type=damage-done&source=6&translate=true
My first Blackhand kill, Normal mode, me as Aff. Not stellar, but apparenlty was enough to get him down and come out top DPS.

I was using DemServ with GoSup there, guided by those thoughts: Doomguard will keep shooting through all my chaotic stuff and I could hold DS for tanks without messing with GoServ.

Watch my damage sources:
PET: 23.78% of total
DOTS: 48.57% of total
DIRECT HAUNT DAMAGE: 9.58% of total
altogether: 81.93% of total damage on those sources

What would change given SB Haunt is chosen?
I assume 100% Haunting spirits buff uptime, same DoT/Drain soul uptimes and the same Soul Shards count.

Dot damage of 48.57% buffed by SB Haunt are 48.57*1.3 = 63.141% of total damage.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fwb2qWnjrkRpDzdt#fight=21&type=damage-done&translate=true&source=7
Looking for pet percentiles from this fight(Me once again, as SB Haunt Aff).
I assume Imp damage of 10%(does not change due to different fight length).
Terrorguard did 8% in 3:21 fight - it's averagely half of 7 minute Blackhand and still one use. That makes 4% of total damage.

420 seconds of Blackhand(no pun intended) is covered with 14 SB haunts. That's a half of my Haunts in DemServ. (I'm not counting 29th Haunt for proximity, sorry a bit.)

Haunt did 9.58% of total damage directly, so half of those would be 4.79%.

We shouldn't forget the uptime difference too.
My Haunt debuff uptime is roughly 70%(taking again for proximity). Half of it would be 35%
That change gives me slightly different damage on my DoTs - 35% uptime of 10% Haunt debuff(making DoT damage 110%) instead of 70% is 3.5% instead of 7.0%
A little of equation : 63.141% is with 70% haunt(107%).
With 103.5% it will be (63.141/1.07)*1.035 = 61.07% of total damage

After applying SB:Haunt changes my damage source chart would be:
DOT: 61.07%
DIRECT HAUNT DAMAGE: 4.79%
PET: 14%
altogether: 79.86% of total damage on those sources.

81.93 - 79.86 = 2.07%. DemServ pulls ahead within the same scenario.

Let's not forget that we are a bit far away from 100% SB Haunt uptime in realistic scenarios and move a lot.

Personal opinion : DemServ is more stable and following a solid, easier and not-so-much random gameplan, unlike SB:Haunt. My initial choice was based on this point only, but I believe my napkin math is right and it's not only better from a gameplay perspective, but also from DPS point.
Things could change with bigger haste levels and they are certainly different if we add more targets.

I'm just sharing some of my thoughts. Feel free to argue and to point on my obvious mistakes.

[Liquidsteel 279]

SB:Haunt has always fallen off on longer fights. It benefits more on something like Gruul which is over fairly quickly where you get more front loaded uptime combined with the Summon Doomguard 10 minute cooldown.

 

A longer fight like Blackhand lends itself to Servitude.

 

As a side note, striving for 100% SB:H uptime is not how I would play it. You want to bleed off excess shards with it of course, however you are supposed to make sure that you cover Dark Soul / Trinkets with both Haunting Spirits and Regular Haunt. If you are losing regular Haunt uptime during your high damage phases then you are doing it wrong.

[Paracel 165]

I can also find a counterargument to my own points - my Drain Soul uptime is only 40% during the fight. On purely single-target fights it can be as large as 60%, and even more.

More Drain Soul means bigger chunk of DoT damage - which serves Soulburn much more than DemServ.

Those buffs stack is also multiplicative with increased damage windows and overall more bursty, as you've said, Liquid - exactly the type of damage you would want in BRF.

Side question - is Drain Soul a DoT on its own?