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Liquidsteel

The Help My DPS Thread

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Every single Demo fight is same issues.
1)Ton of CWs singletarget.

Convert those to HoG - uptime will improve and more DF/MC procs will follow.

2)Literally twice as much Soul Fires outside of Meta, backed up by ton of ToC.
While this can be somewhat good on Hans/Frans due to movement, it is certainly not optimal.

Totally rethink your MC procs usage. They are your main damage source, not your DF generator anymore.

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Warning : long and probably useless post ahead. Sorry for taking thread space and drawing attention, if it is so.

TL;DR all that stuff below talking Aff on Blackhand and explaining that DemServ is sli-ightly better while being easier. I'm bad with SB:Haunt and trying to prove that it is bad instead of L2P.

Blackhand question really gave my mind some treat. I got myself caught on the idea of comparing two of those builds in the exact same scenario.

Log to work with:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DRAfZ1dmrNt9xvHQ#fight=9&type=damage-done&source=6&translate=true
My first Blackhand kill, Normal mode, me as Aff. Not stellar, but apparenlty was enough to get him down and come out top DPS.

I was using DemServ with GoSup there, guided by those thoughts: Doomguard will keep shooting through all my chaotic stuff and I could hold DS for tanks without messing with GoServ.

Watch my damage sources:
PET: 23.78% of total
DOTS: 48.57% of total
DIRECT HAUNT DAMAGE: 9.58% of total
altogether: 81.93% of total damage on those sources

What would change given SB Haunt is chosen?
I assume 100% Haunting spirits buff uptime, same DoT/Drain soul uptimes and the same Soul Shards count.

Dot damage of 48.57% buffed by SB Haunt are 48.57*1.3 = 63.141% of total damage.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fwb2qWnjrkRpDzdt#fight=21&type=damage-done&translate=true&source=7
Looking for pet percentiles from this fight(Me once again, as SB Haunt Aff).
I assume Imp damage of 10%(does not change due to different fight length).
Terrorguard did 8% in 3:21 fight - it's averagely half of 7 minute Blackhand and still one use. That makes 4% of total damage.

420 seconds of Blackhand(no pun intended) is covered with 14 SB haunts. That's a half of my Haunts in DemServ. (I'm not counting 29th Haunt for proximity, sorry a bit.)

Haunt did 9.58% of total damage directly, so half of those would be 4.79%.

We shouldn't forget the uptime difference too.
My Haunt debuff uptime is roughly 70%(taking again for proximity). Half of it would be 35%
That change gives me slightly different damage on my DoTs - 35% uptime of 10% Haunt debuff(making DoT damage 110%) instead of 70% is 3.5% instead of 7.0%
A little of equation : 63.141% is with 70% haunt(107%).
With 103.5% it will be (63.141/1.07)*1.035 = 61.07% of total damage

After applying SB:Haunt changes my damage source chart would be:
DOT: 61.07%
DIRECT HAUNT DAMAGE: 4.79%
PET: 14%
altogether: 79.86% of total damage on those sources.

81.93 - 79.86 = 2.07%. DemServ pulls ahead within the same scenario.

Let's not forget that we are a bit far away from 100% SB Haunt uptime in realistic scenarios and move a lot.

Personal opinion : DemServ is more stable and following a solid, easier and not-so-much random gameplan, unlike SB:Haunt. My initial choice was based on this point only, but I believe my napkin math is right and it's not only better from a gameplay perspective, but also from DPS point.
Things could change with bigger haste levels and they are certainly different if we add more targets.


I'm just sharing some of my thoughts. Feel free to argue and to point on my obvious mistakes.

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SB:Haunt has always fallen off on longer fights. It benefits more on something like Gruul which is over fairly quickly where you get more front loaded uptime combined with the Summon Doomguard 10 minute cooldown.

 

A longer fight like Blackhand lends itself to Servitude.

 

As a side note, striving for 100% SB:H uptime is not how I would play it. You want to bleed off excess shards with it of course, however you are supposed to make sure that you cover Dark Soul / Trinkets with both Haunting Spirits and Regular Haunt. If you are losing regular Haunt uptime during your high damage phases then you are doing it wrong.

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I can also find a counterargument to my own points - my Drain Soul uptime is only 40% during the fight. On purely single-target fights it can be as large as 60%, and even more.

More Drain Soul means bigger chunk of DoT damage - which serves Soulburn much more than DemServ.

Those buffs stack is also multiplicative with increased damage windows and overall more bursty, as you've said, Liquid - exactly the type of damage you would want in BRF.

Side question - is Drain Soul a DoT on its own?
 

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thanks for the advide Paracel, I followed your advice and it worked but then again I failed on st fight , 

(gruul)  

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GYg4WfBC87wmMvay#fight=1 

 

there is another lock without the 4 set bonus, w/o the ring and less ilvl, doing better with ToC

(my armory)

http://eu.battle.net/wow/es/character/zuljin/Nicros/simple 

(the other lock)

http://eu.battle.net/wow/es/character/zuljin/S%C3%B6ty/simple

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thanks for the advide Paracel, I followed your advice and it worked but then again I failed on st fight , 

(gruul)  

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GYg4WfBC87wmMvay#fight=1 

 

there is another lock without the 4 set bonus, w/o the ring and less ilvl, doing better with ToC

(my armory)

http://eu.battle.net/wow/es/character/zuljin/Nicros/simple 

(the other lock)

http://eu.battle.net/wow/es/character/zuljin/S%C3%B6ty/simple

His burn phases are aligned a bit better plus he made 3 complete Dark Souls while you've been using 3rd too late

Funny thing is that he made 30 SF casts and you've made 32 - either RNG favouring not you but him or, what's more important, you've been sitting on a lot of MC procs.

His Doom has 50% crit, and it pulled him 130k more damage, also.

Demo gameplay is still pretty RNG. Don't really think about comparision to other warlock because they just may get more luck then you.

 

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Thanks again Parecel, in some way i think you're right about the RNG. Then i remember that he didnt even had the ring or 4 bonus tier and this make me think if it's worth it use

http://www.wowhead.com/item=113981/slagbombers-hood&bonus=567#  (warforged)

and

http://www.wowhead.com/item=113914/leggings-of-the-molten-torrent&bonus=567(with socket) 

losing the 4 bonus set  but getting like +100intellect  at least for ST fights

Edited by Nicros

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Thanks again Parecel, in some way i think you're right about the RNG. Then i remember that he didnt even had the ring or 4 bonus tier and this make me think if it's worth it use

http://www.wowhead.com/item=113981/slagbombers-hood&bonus=567#  (warforged)

and

http://www.wowhead.com/item=113914/leggings-of-the-molten-torrent&bonus=567(with socket) 

losing the 4 bonus set  but getting like +100intellect  at least for ST fights

Don't really know about the items. Looks sweet, as well as 4pc, though.

Try it all out and see on your own.

I wouldn't lose 4pc, but that's just me.

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I have zero pieces of heroic tier gear; I have  gear ranging from 671-691 in those slots, some with gem slots. But I do have normal tier pieces sitting in my bank. I'm curious to know if it's worth it to equip the normal tier to get my 4 pc at the cost of heroic ilevel pieces in those slots. Or because it would mean giving up 4 pieces with that big of an level difference is it too many stats to lose just for 2/4pc bonuses?

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kelthuzad/Liarparadox/simple

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I have zero pieces of heroic tier gear; I have  gear ranging from 671-691 in those slots, some with gem slots. But I do have normal tier pieces sitting in my bank. I'm curious to know if it's worth it to equip the normal tier to get my 4 pc at the cost of heroic ilevel pieces in those slots. Or because it would mean giving up 4 pieces with that big of an level difference is it too many stats to lose just for 2/4pc bonuses?

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kelthuzad/Liarparadox/simple

Of course!

2pc is solid DPS, regardless of what you do. 5-8% of my damage in my logs.

4pc is insane. RNG proc carries AoE scenarios, carries single target, makes 2pc even stronger.

No ilvl difference can realy cover the 10-15% gain from 4 tier pieces.

Given your armory, I'd say your choice should be Head,Shoulders, Hands and Legs.

Your Legs and Hands have no mastery on them, as well as shoulders. (Neither the tier pieces, though)

Sockets are fine but it's not really the case.

Chest is MFW with socket, leave it for the swag. Also ilvl difference is pretty darn big.

Edited by Paracel

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Hey there, first time posting here! Im a bit confused this days as to wich is the best spec/talents for a Warlock. Im currently playng as Destro with Demonic Servitude and Grimoire of Supremacy, and feel that my DPS is kinda low for a 685

 

Armory Link

 

Here are some logs; (Name is Elmekia)

 

Beastlord + Operator + Maidens (I was 683 for this ones, using the standard build Demonic Servitude + Grimoire of Supremacy)

 

Kromog + Operator (For this ones I tried the Charred remains + Grimore of Sacrifice build)

 

The thing is i have also tried re-specing into Demo, but found the rotation to be somewhat awkward(as was the resource generation) It felt as tough the only thing I did was cast Shadow Bolt over and over (For little to no gain)

 

What am I doing wrong? I even use a lot of addons to keep track of things (like ExtraCD, or Weakauras2 - This one I just picked up today, still no idea what im doing tough) Also, Crit is still the best secondary stat for Destro right? (I have heard its Mastery) and Finnaly, for the Charred Remains build... I need the 4 piece tier right? (I only have 2 pieces as of now)

 

Thank you!

Edited by Elmekia

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Hey there, first time posting here! Im a bit confused this days as to wich is the best spec/talents for a Warlock. Im currently playng as Destro with Demonic Servitude and Grimoire of Supremacy, and feel that my DPS is kinda low for a 685

Armory Link

Here are some logs; (Name is Elmekia)

Beastlord + Operator + Maidens (I was 683 for this ones, using the standard build Demonic Servitude + Grimoire of Supremacy)

Kromog + Operator (For this ones I tried the Charred remains + Grimore of Sacrifice build)

The thing is i have also tried re-specing into Demo, but found the rotation to be somewhat awkward(as was the resource generation) It felt as tough the only thing I did was cast Shadow Bolt over and over (For little to no gain)

What am I doing wrong? I even use a lot of addons to keep track of things (like ExtraCD, or Weakauras2 - This one I just picked up today, still no idea what im doing tough) Also, Crit is still the best secondary stat for Destro right? (I have heard its Mastery) and Finnaly, for the Charred Remains build... I need the 4 piece tier right? (I only have 2 pieces as of now)

Thank you!

I'm no Destroy expert, but I can tell you a few things:

-Your Immolate uptime is low. I want to say 95% is what to aim for, but I'm not certain on that.

-GoServ should be taken over GoSup. Since it got buffed with 6.1, it is now the go-to with DemServ.

-I personally have a harder time evaluating logs of boss fights with large amounts of adds. It's much easier to see exactly where you are messing up on a single-target fight like Gruul. Maidens wouldn't be a bad fight for analysis if you didn't die.

As for stats, I believe mastery is the way to go regardless of spec. I think darkintentions.net shows mastery beating crit by a small amount for destro.

Lastly, I don'the think there are any hard-and-fast rules for the CR build. As far as I can tell, it just relies on stacking mastery, though I can't say how much. Liquidsteel did mention that a rule of thumb for CR was to have a GSR and the 4-pc bonus, though.

Edited by HeadBeeGuy

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As for demo, I don't see how casting shadowbolt ad infinitum is so different from doing the same with incinerate.

Demo, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective), is something you just kind of have to practice and get a good feel for how all of the mechanics interact. Until then, it probably will feel awkward. Anyway, I recommend giving it another try. It's so rewarding once you figure it out. Good luck!

Edit: Removed ridiculous emote

Edited by HeadBeeGuy

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@Elmekia

Destro fights:
CR Thogar - total mess, almost no FNB, 3 Havocs and 17 Shadowburns on fight that is heaven for sniping.

If you are choosing the spec that can capitalize on fight - do it. If you can't do that - stick to something that is comfy and tunnels the boss.

You did both sides - boss damage and AoE - very bad. Highly recommend Demo Cata for Thogar because it's really OP.

 

CR Kromog - same stuff. 0 FNB and no capitalisation on Havoc + Shadowburn.
Havoc boss and Shadowburn hands for profit, works nice with glyphed Havoc.

 
Darmac - very bad Immo uptime.
Shadowburn count is fine but you can space more Havocs. Don't glyph it there. Use FnB on adds.

Wouldn't even cover other fights without CR. It's practically pointless build now. CR pulls in any situation and Demo wins over CR

 

Get rid of DemServ. It's one of the reasons you are pulling bad damage.
For CR Destro wants that 4pc and one performance trinket (BMC/GSR) badly but still can make a living out of FnB and smart Havocs.

Sandmans ain't that kind for Destru now.


 

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Hello. Since my guild was farming Heroics tonight, I just felt like going Aff on Gruul/Hanz/Oregorger. I was using SB:Haunt/Supremacy on those fights. However, I feel like I'm doing something wrong and have a couple of questions.

 

First, do you try to have SB:Haunt uptime close to 100%? On Gruul, there were times where I didn't have shards to cast SB:Haunt so I just kept the dots rolling and waited to get a new shard just so I can SB:Haunt

 

Second, is it worth using Haunt instead of SB:Haunt when you only have 1 shard or wait until you get 2 shards to cast SB:Haunt? I feel like I'm losing dps because I'm not getting my Haunt uptimes high.

 

Third, trinket questions. Is it worth using H SoN with mastery gem over H GSR for aff or just use BRF Trinkets?

 

I just feel like I'm not getting enough shards throughout the fight to keep SB:Haunt uptime pretty high. I haven't tested DS/Serv on aff since most of the Affs I've seen are running SB:Haunt/Sup on STs.

 

Here's the log anyway, warlock is named Ayygnomao: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K9RCtZmyHxfDhBAg#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=21

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Hello. Since my guild was farming Heroics tonight, I just felt like going Aff on Gruul/Hanz/Oregorger. I was using SB:Haunt/Supremacy on those fights. However, I feel like I'm doing something wrong and have a couple of questions.

 

First, do you try to have SB:Haunt uptime close to 100%? On Gruul, there were times where I didn't have shards to cast SB:Haunt so I just kept the dots rolling and waited to get a new shard just so I can SB:Haunt

 

Second, is it worth using Haunt instead of SB:Haunt when you only have 1 shard or wait until you get 2 shards to cast SB:Haunt? I feel like I'm losing dps because I'm not getting my Haunt uptimes high.

 

Third, trinket questions. Is it worth using H SoN with mastery gem over H GSR for aff or just use BRF Trinkets?

 

I just feel like I'm not getting enough shards throughout the fight to keep SB:Haunt uptime pretty high. I haven't tested DS/Serv on aff since most of the Affs I've seen are running SB:Haunt/Sup on STs.

 

Here's the log anyway, warlock is named Ayygnomao: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K9RCtZmyHxfDhBAg#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=21

1)This reply is for you. Read around.

 

SB:Haunt has always fallen off on longer fights. It benefits more on something like Gruul which is over fairly quickly where you get more front loaded uptime combined with the Summon Doomguard 10 minute cooldown.

 

A longer fight like Blackhand lends itself to Servitude.

 

As a side note, striving for 100% SB:H uptime is not how I would play it. You want to bleed off excess shards with it of course, however you are supposed to make sure that you cover Dark Soul / Trinkets with both Haunting Spirits and Regular Haunt. If you are losing regular Haunt uptime during your high damage phases then you are doing it wrong.

Pretty much second this opinion. It's only good to have good SB Haunt uptime on multitargets when more than one DoT'ed target will benefit and regular Haunt is worth less.in those scenarios - you have less Drain Soul in that 10s Haunt debuff window.

2)That's your gameplay edge as Aff - finding the balance of Haunts and Soulburns, getting the feeling about your shard generatiom.

As a rule of thumb, I don't cast regular Haunts at all unless they are excessive (>2 in usual scenarios, >3 if DS cooldown is close). Your DPS is doing OK so I assume you're doing it all pretty much right.

3)No. Int worth much too high.

Count Pseudo Power of stats on those trinkets and compare. Even with 20sec DS buff for SoN it still lacks.

H GSR - 325 int, crit proc worth 353 = 678 PP

H SoN - 263 int, on-use worth with DS sync - 209 = 472 PP. Socket worth 29.5 PP - still not making it.

M SoN  - 302 int, on use worth with DS sync - 382 = 682 PP.

Mind that in those calculations I use RPPM data of GSR as written - 0.92 proc per minute. It can easily proc more.

Edited by Paracel

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@Paracel thank you for the reply. I saw Liquidsteel's post too before I started posting but I just wanted to see if there's other opinions or answers to my questions. I just find it sad that I was going 40k+ dps on Gruul until I started getting shard hungry that I wasn't casting Haunt instead waiting for 2 shards to cast SB:Haunt then next thing I know, I dipped down a little bit. I'll go make some pulls next week on Mythic and Heroic Gruul/Ore as Serv/Service and see if it's much better.

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@Paracel thank you for the reply. I saw Liquidsteel's post too before I started posting but I just wanted to see if there's other opinions or answers to my questions. I just find it sad that I was going 40k+ dps on Gruul until I started getting shard hungry that I wasn't casting Haunt instead waiting for 2 shards to cast SB:Haunt then next thing I know, I dipped down a little bit. I'll go make some pulls next week on Mythic and Heroic Gruul/Ore as Serv/Service and see if it's much better.

Hey I took a quick look at your Gruul log.

 

Overall you had some nice trinket uptimes - over 30% on BMC! Shame this is Affliction where utilising a stacking proc is rather difficult. 

 

I'm a bit confused with your opener. On the log, your first cast of Haunt in combat is at 13.4 seconds. I am presuming that you did a Soulburn: Haunt as your precast? If so the boss will have been debuffed by Haunt from 0-10 seconds into the fight. As your cast did not complete until 14.3 seconds, it is safe to assume that he did not receive the Haunt debuff until after 15s. This meant that for 5 whole seconds of your superbuffed opener, the boss was lacking a 30% damage debuff. Pretty significant, no?

 

Your next cast of Haunt (Soulburned) comes at 28.1s, meaning the third application of Haunt won't have been active until 30s. Again we have a 5 second downtime where Boss is missing 30% damage debuff and you have Bloodlust still active.

 

I am curious if you pulled with full Soul Shards? The ideal opener is to Soulburn 25s before the pull. Then you open with Haunt (putting you at 3 shards), get your DoTs up, hit Dark Soul and Drain Soul once or twice, refresh Haunt (it benefits from pandemic), then spam Drain Soul. You can Safely Soulburn: Haunt at ~10s left on Haunting Spirits as it too benefits from Pandemic.

 

I refuse to believe that in a 30s window you only generated 1 nightfall proc, so something it amiss. Even if you didn't get to pre Soulburn, you can still guarantee an extra Haunt 6-8s into the fight and a Soulburn: Haunt ~18s in.

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Yesterday I decided to try Destruction in brf hc. Usually I play Demo in all encounters, but as hc is on farm status I wanted to have some fun as Destro.

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QxBNvcnRkrPDAaCt#type=damage-done&fight=4

 

I think the specc is not as bad as people think but the dps is not as high as with Demonology. I was not sure which talents to pick on which boss encounter. For pure single target fights like gruul or oregorger I sticked to DS/GrimServ which worked quite well for me.

Blast Furnace was a mess and I fucked it up with CD management. I think CR/GrimSac is still a good choice for this fight.

Darmac was really fun as destruction as this fight has become so boring on hc, especially in our raid group where we usually have 3 Demo locks bombing the adds. Sniping adds with havoc on boss or cleaving spears is really fun. Unfortunately the adds are dying so fast that it was hard to execute them with shadowburn.

Thogar....not much to say. No need to AOE as Demo, Warriors and rogues dealt with the adds within seconds. Maybe DS/GrimServ would have been the better choice...

Iron Maidens was bad. The movement cost me a lot of dps and I even died one time because of the bombs. Not sure if Cataclysm would be a good talent here.

Hans & Franz seems to have potential for Destruction locks if you are smart and avoid unnecessary movement.

Flamebender is cool for destruction - cleaving and executing dogs with havoc. I think I did pretty well in this fight.

Kromog was.....nah....ok. Hands are dying too fast in our gear so it makes no sense to AOE with chaosbolt. I should have spent DS charges for executing the hands with havoc at the end of the phase.

 

I haven't played Destruction much since Highmaul and haven't thought much about talents and glyphes. So waht do you Destro experts think? I guess there is a lot to improve

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You have 4 set and decent trinkets. You should be using CR+GoSac on pretty much every fight.

 

Maidens might fair better as Cataclysm, but otherwise CR is your friend in good gear.

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Did you have to move all the time? Otherwise CR should pull significantly ahead in my experience (and I have crappy trinkets). Check to make sure you are not capping. With the 2 set bonus it seems safer to not go above 2.5 I think. 

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@Liquidsteel  I tried to do the precast thing, but I don't think it worked. I believe it was like a few more seconds until I get the 4th shard back, so it was crappy sb:haunt for me. Sometimes we'd do a ready check then everyone's ready and I'm good to go but there's gonna be a quick discussion on who's doing what, etc.

 

i think I may have known what's causing my big opener to mess up. I was more concerned of thinking that I should have 2 shards available for SB:Haunt rather than casting more Haunts during the opener. I believe I was saving two shards for the next SB:Haunt instead of casting Haunts while Haunting Spirits duration was still longer. I just goofed on Aff last night then D:

Edited by Masc

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