5.4 Warlock (Intellect) Trinkets

[Zagam 1,983]

PBI is best-in-slot, period.  There's no need to compare it to anything on a numerical scale like you are asking.  It's good.  The how good part is irrelevant because it's the best.

 

Replacing LFR Wush with CFR is barely ok.  You really want to consider all things with the passive and active component of the trinket.  As long as you're utilizing the Intellect proc of CFR perfectly, then it shouldn't be an issue, but replace it ASAP.

[Lockybalboa 618]

I am using cleave trinket because BBoY and KTT won't drop or coin. I took CFR to replace a LFR Wush trinket.

We both know PBI is good, but how good.

 

I'm coming down with the flu and read everything wrong, I get it now.

 

That's really sad nothing better has dropped for you. If you have the time I'd start running reg or H ToT to try and get a Breath or a Wush if you don't get useful from SoO that week.

 

Hard to say "This trinket is worth X amount of DPS" because trinkets don't scale like that. A weapon for a warrior scales a little more like that, nice and flat. A trinket for a caster not so much. PBI is worth an extra 5-9% of your stats, so if you have a 496 ilvl then 5-9% of your stats isn't worth that much. If you're in full HWF then 5-9% of your stats is AMAZING. 

 

Look at your toon without the trinket on, add 5-9% depending on your trinket, it's worth that much in raw stats + a very strong Int proc that lines up with DS making it amazing-er, also has the 5-9% crit DAMAGE that is rather tasty.

[Cataylst 0]

The PBI argument I refer to is the i have it but then have CFR vs the other guy not having PBI but has BBoY and KTT.

[Lockybalboa 618]

Both of your trinket combos suck. Imo, his sucks less.

[Cataylst 0]

Both of your trinket combos suck. Imo, his sucks less.

So any trinket combination other the PBI and KTT is just sub par by any means?

[Zagam 1,983]

Here's all you need to know about trinkets:

 

1) Get PBI, any version, and equip it.  Upgrade it with better versions if possible.

2) Get KTT or BBoY.  Both are applicable and very good.

3) Get any Heroic ToT trinket such as Cha-Ye's or Breath.  Avoid Wush and UVLS.

 

You're using the word 'subpar' a bit harshly.  The difference between BBoY and KTT is subjective and will fluxuate with parses due to RNG.  Optimally, you want a 580 PBI and a 580 KTT.  To your argument, anything less than that is subpar.  In reality, you're limited to the best options available, which you have no control over.  What you do have control over is improving your play, so focus on that until the trinkets cometh.

[Cataylst 0]

Both of your trinket combos suck. Imo, his sucks less.

This seems to sum up what my discussion.

[Zilthy 36]

Just got heroic PBI last night, and I know that trink is good, but wow it scales like a beast.

 

Although, that could be the slight adjustment in playstyle too (making *sure* I have 4 embers to drop on CB with a havoc when PBI pops)

 

Although, I still need to work out my opener, very weak.... usually last in DPS untll 30 seonds in.... :/

Edited December 28, 2013 by Zilthy

[Liquidsteel 279]

Just got heroic PBI last night, and I know that trink is good, but wow it scales like a beast.

 

Although, that could be the slight adjustment in playstyle too (making *sure* I have 4 embers to drop on CB with a havoc when PBI pops)

 

Although, I still need to work out my opener, very weak.... usually last in DPS untll 30 seonds in.... :/

Are you playing Destruction I take it?

 

If so this is quite strange as the Destruction opener is pretty solid. You will likely get out bursted by Boomkins for a few seconds but they fall off pretty hard whilst you still retain a higher average dps.

 

If you want here's my opener for you to try out for yourself and see if you like it. The premise is basically to get off 2 chaos bolts and a fully charged Immolate before 4 set/metagem/KTT procs fall off.

 

At 3 seconds before pull I prepot and cast incinerate, after this I hit dark soul and immolate, at which point the boss is pulled and I double conflagrate. Follow up with 3 incinerates (usually everything has procced and you have built up to 2 embers, proccing 4 set) and then chaos bolt x2. After this I re-apply immolate just before all my buffs have fallen off and proceed as normal. Trying to get off at least 2 more chaos bolts before dark soul/PBI falls off.

[Nukeyzsan 0]

Hi guys :>.  Would Normal BBoY be better for aff then Hc Warforged KTT? Heard the multistrike isn't too good if you have a pet out? 

[Lockybalboa 618]

Big reason why most people KTT over BBoY for Destro is that BBoY is very hard to use to the max when playing destro. It's all to common to need to move during that damn proc and loss a CB during it. This makes the trinket almost useless.

 

Aff is just DoT snap shotting, very easy to do even when on the move. BBoY if used well will out do KTT as Afflic.

[Vipples 5]

I've been having extremely horrible luck with my PBoI procs at the start of fights lately. I'm wondering if its just my opener... as it seems fairly consistent now. The ICD is always cleared for at least a few seconds before we pull the boss,  but there were kills this week where it didn't proc until 45+ seconds into the pull.

 

My opener is typically:

Pre-pot 1-2 seconds before pull

CoE on pull (no other application in my group)

Darksoul/racial

Immolate

Conflagx2

RoF if Meta proc'd yet (I recently added this in just to try to get more chances for the trinket to proc)

Incinx3

CBx2

 

It seems like a waste to hold off on using Dark soul until PBoI procs, especially since its been horribly late at times. On my protectors pull, it popped up as we hit the first Meditation phase..... and the ICD was definitely clear before the pull according to my weak aura. Should I be precasting an incinerate or immolate to go up right as we pull? Or do the RNG gods just hate me? 

[mediocregatsby 18]

i've had pulls where we kill the first paragon and get halfway through the second before PBI procs. cant even comprehend the odds on that.

[Liquidsteel 279]

My longest was about a minute and a half I think lol.

[Zagam 1,983]

With a 15% to proc on spell hit, the chances of you not getting a proc grow increasingly rare, almost to the point it's painful to think about.

 

Binomial Distribution using P=0.15, successes = 0, and N = number of spells:

 

1 85.00%
2 72.25%
3 61.41%
4 52.20%
5 44.37%
6 37.71%
7 32.06%
8 27.25%
9 23.16%
10 19.69%
11 16.73%
12 14.22%
13 12.09%
14 10.28%
15 8.74%
16 7.43%
17 6.31%
18 5.36%
19 4.56%
20 3.88%
21 3.29%
22 2.80%
23 2.38%
24 2.02%
25 1.72%
26 1.46%
27 1.24%
28 1.06%
29 0.90%
30 0.76%
31 0.65%
32 0.55%
33 0.47%
34 0.40%
35 0.34%
36 0.29%
37 0.24%
38 0.21%
39 0.18%
40 0.15%
41 0.13%
42 0.11%
43 0.09%
44 0.08%
45 0.07%
46 0.06%
47 0.05%
48 0.04%
49 0.03%
50 0.03%

 

The percentages indicate the % chance of NOT having PBI proc on the Nth spell hit.  If you make it towards 50, don't play the lottery.

[mediocregatsby 18]

i think you mean DO play the lottery, hitting those crazy odds!

[Soulzar 42]

I've been having extremely horrible luck with my PBoI procs at the start of fights lately. I'm wondering if its just my opener... as it seems fairly consistent now. The ICD is always cleared for at least a few seconds before we pull the boss,  but there were kills this week where it didn't proc until 45+ seconds into the pull.

 

Oddly enough, I came here today to complain about the same thing. 

 

All week my PBoI has been proccing like garbage on pull... to the point where i'm convincing msyelf its proc has been quietly adjusted even though i know better... Last night was extreme... the first hour of raid I was ready to quit the game...I actually unequipped and swapped trinket spots because I was so baffled I would try anything...I'd chalk (and still do) the first 7 pulls up to shit RNG.. but all week it has been terrible.  Very very often I am getting a second KTT proc before PBoI procs... Ugg  That said KTT procs like a champ.

 

1. 11 sec

2. 11 sec

3. 29 Sec

4. 30 sec

5. Didnt proc in 1min 22sec attempt!!!

6. 19sec

7. Didnt proc in 1min 17sec attempt!!!

 

From this point in the night outside of 3 attempts it was fairly stable as per usual.... but wow? I thought perhaps we were pulling too quickly and my ICD was not reset yet.. but I checked a few attemtps and I don't think thats it. 

 

We were progression on paragons ..I was getting severely pissed as my dps was half of what it should be due to fucking proc rng and we were JUST missing Skeer dps check before second wave of bloods.

 

Second half of the night things stabilized and we almost killed them.  Our last 3 pulls we were getting to final 3... we have them within a few pulls now.  Man is the fight ever a joke once Aim is out of the mix...

Edited February 25, 2014 by Soulzar

[Strife 6]

Nvm old post :x

Edited March 21, 2014 by Strife

[Zagam 1,983]

Updated values for 5.4.8 with new 588 potential item level of trinkets. 

[illogic 2]

No problem, glad to have helped.

In regards to trinkets, there is no dependability with procs. There have been hot fixes to alleviate some of the tremendous RNG behind the trinkets, but I don't have referenced the formula that GC provided that shows how trinkets are meant to proc more often the longer they go without proccing. Basically, the new trinkets have completely random proc rates. I got Unerring last night and tested it immediately. I went about 2 minutes without a proc and then got 3 in really quick succession. If you're wanting to depend on a proc for these new trinkets, you're going to be disappointed as there's no real way to get a feel for when they will pop. These new trinkets have no ICD, so tracking them is extremely difficult. Just know that you won't have the crappy RNG of not having one proc for 4 minutes happen anymore...that's what the fix to their CDs did. They should proc with the listed RealPPMs I listed as a worst case scenario. The longer you go using the trinkets without a proc, the higher your chances of receiving a proc soon. If I got that formula handy, I MIGHT be able to figure out the maximum ICD of each trinket and then create a sort of confidence interval (likely 95%, no way I can do 99%) of when the trinket is most likely to proc. Just understand that with randomness and statistics, there are always outliers.

This may be redundant, and certainly a necro, but there is a lot of responses in this thread and I cannot be certain it was addressed.  If I am rehashing, please forgive.

"Calculate the proc frequency as normal. Based on that, you can figure out the expected average proc interval. We also now keep track of time since the last successful proc (this is different from the time since last chance to proc), capped at 1000 sec. Multiply the proc chance by MAX(1, 1+((TimeSinceLastSuccessfulProc/AverageProcInterval)-1.5)*3). For example, if a proc has an average proc interval of 45 sec, and it’s been 72 sec since your last successful proc, you’ll get a 1.3x multiplier to your proc chance. If you’ve been out of combat for a few min, and it’s been 5 min since your last successful proc, you’ll get a whopping 16.5x multiplier to your proc chance."  

source: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6892090046?page=1

I've spent some time in WeakAuras trying to predict upcoming trinket procs, but have been unable to do so.  If anyone cares to take a stab at it, hopefully this formula helps.

 

[Zagam 1,983]

That formula can be utilized to see the increased proc chance, but it typically doesn't kick in until well after the average proc timer.  As you can see from the previous example, if the average proc interval is 45 sec and you go 27 seconds past it, you only get a 1.3x multiplier.  The multiplier is exponential, so you it scales up quickly - it's designed to be a protection against long procs, but it doesn't particularly make procs dependable.  You'll more often than not acquire a proc before the protection mechanism has any real impact.

 

There are addons and weakauras that people use that show the proc multiplier until a proc happens.  These are used as a very loose predictor, but not able to predict that you'll get a proc within the next 10 seconds like you can reliably do with ICD trinkets.

[illogic 2]

I agree.  I think my use of the word "prediction" wasn't accurate from the outset.  Your framing is definitely more accurate.  Now I am not convinced that monitoring the multiplier is worth the effort.  I'd have to hear arguments otherwise.

[Nytemare 2]

Updated values for 5.4.8 with new 588 potential item level of trinkets. 

 

I must be blind as I don't see the update chars with the extra 8 item levels added in the patch. Last one still shows 580 - I currently have normal warforge one max to +16 and would love to know what it really gives in amp.

[Zagam 1,983]

I must be blind as I don't see the update chars with the extra 8 item levels added in the patch. Last one still shows 580 - I currently have normal warforge one max to +16 and would love to know what it really gives in amp.

5.4.8 NEW VALUE - 588 - 10% (9.7% real value) Amplification - 16293 Intellect proc

 

It says that on the first page - it's even bolded.

 

I'm not going to add new calculations for every possible permutation of trinket item levels - it's too redundant and not necessary.  If you want to calculate the value, you use the formula that's provided.  Just for fun, here's how you would do it (not that it matters)...

 

P(559+16) = P(553)*1.15^(((559+16)-553)/15))

P(575) = P(553) * 1.15^(22/15)

P(575) = 7 * 1.15 ^ (22/15)

P(575) = 8.592

 

Your UI or armory will show 9%.  It's a lie.  It's 8.6%.

[Nytemare 2]

5.4.8 NEW VALUE - 588 - 10% (9.7% real value) Amplification - 16293 Intellect proc

 

It says that on the first page - it's even bolded.

 

I'm not going to add new calculations for every possible permutation of trinket item levels - it's too redundant and not necessary.  If you want to calculate the value, you use the formula that's provided.  Just for fun, here's how you would do it (not that it matters)...

 

P(559+16) = P(553)*1.15^(((559+16)-553)/15))

P(575) = P(553) * 1.15^(22/15)

P(575) = 7 * 1.15 ^ (22/15)

P(575) = 8.592

 

Your UI or armory will show 9%.  It's a lie.  It's 8.6%.

 

yeah I was focus on the charts and not the words before it. Trying to figure what the break point would be at 575 which is what my trinket is with +16