5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[Stonesie 5]

Hey guys  - I took a rest from wow...am creeping back in now.  My lock is like 540, Destruction.  Is Destruction still the way to go?

[Lockybalboa 618]

Short answer, yes.

[McLouvre 0]

Regarding empowering CB...

 

Is the damage calculated from the start of the cast or when the cast completes?  Meaning if I start casting CB with 1.5 seconds left on a proc, will it be get the proc bonus additional damage?

[Lockybalboa 618]

End of cast. When it leaves your hand is when it is snap shotted.

 

*Normally* if it is snap shoting a BUFF on YOU then it is snapped at the moment it leaves your hand (Such as trinket buffs, weapon proc, etc). If it is doing more damage due to a DEBUFF on the TARGET then it is snapped when the cast LANDS on the target (Such as Horradon after a door when he gets a stack of damage taken).  

[McLouvre 0]

That makes complete sense.  However, I now realize I have been mismanaging my CB usage during those procs as I was under the assumption that it calculated from the start of the cast.

 

Thanks for the clarification!

Edited February 10, 2014 by McLouvre

[Liquidsteel 279]

That makes complete sense.  However, I now realize I have been mismanaging my CB usage during those procs as I was under the assumption that it calculated from the start of the cast.

 

Thanks for the clarification!

I did this all through t14 and half way through t15 so don't worry about it :p

[Cardio33 3]

I glanced through several pages and didn't see this question answered so I apologize in advance if this has been addressed.

 

 

Recommended Opener:

 

CoE -> DS -> immolate -> 2xconflag -> 4xincin -> 2xCB if you have Garrosh trinket.  

 

 

What's the thought process behind 2xconflags?  I feel it leaves you vulnerable to wasting 3xbackdrafts with a CB.  And if you get a trinket proc off the CoE but no meta proc you will struggle to get that last CB out under trinket effects.

 

 

I've been using:

 

CoE -> DS -> immolate -> conflag ->2-3 incin (depending on haste procs) -> 2xCB.

 

If I get a meta proc I'll throw up RoF before CB spamming.  

 

 

I've also looked through this guide, the guide on Noxxic, and on mmo-champion and can't find information about this haste soft cap everyone is referring to.  What's the all about?

[Oldtrout 7]

Consuming backdraft in your opener (or at any time for that matter) matters a lot less than getting a super-buffed chaos bolt away in time. You're much more liable to lose one or more of your big opening procs if a) you haven't conflagrated twice in the opener (much faster ember generation than incinerate) or b ) you use an extra GCD AND lose that big cast-time reduction on your first chaos bolt. I know that most of the time I'd miss out on KTT and ember master for my 2nd CB if I didn't consume a backdraft in my opener.

 

The "never ever consume backdraft for chaos bolt" rule only really applies unequivocally to those periods of filler with no procs. There are situations where it's okay to do it, and the opener is definitely one.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Oldtrout

[Cardio33 3]

Makes a lot of sense, 

 

Basically being out of backdrafts for incinerate is a lot less problematic than missing one of those huge 1.5-2 mil CBs.

 

 

What are warlocks doing when out of conflags and no backdraft procs?  I'm talking about 20-30 sec in on a pull.  You have an empowered immolate up so no reason to refresh.  If you already have RoF down do you incinerate w/o backdraft or fel flame 1-2 times till conflag back up?

 

 

Edit:  Also still looking into this haste soft cap business.  I see that extra immolate tick is ~10.1k haste but who cares.  Most of the time you are aiming to refresh immolate w/ meta proc which gives you a 10437 haste point.

 

 

At what value of haste will incinerate reach 1 sec cast time under backdraft?

Edited February 25, 2014 by Cardio33

[Soulzar 42]

Especially if you stack crit over haste after maxing your mastery, races without broken haste racials need to use 3 backdraft charges to get two CB out during the 5 second 4p proc.  The 4pc proc with all those int procs is one of the main contributors to the awesome scaling of those first two CB.

 

Conflags are also instant with no cast time which is an inportant contributor to building that first Ember early enough to catch your 10 second int proc and prepot.

 

 

 

What are warlocks doing when out of conflags and no backdraft procs?  I'm talking about 20-30 sec in on a pull.  You have an empowered immolate up so no reason to refresh.  If you already have RoF down do you incinerate w/o backdraft or fel flame 1-2 times till conflag back up?

 

 

Edit:  Also still looking into this haste soft cap business.  I see that extra immolate tick is ~10.1k haste but who cares.  Most of the time you are aiming to refresh immolate w/ meta proc which gives you a 10437 haste point.

 

Dont use RoF single target.  Just cast incin.  

 

Dont try to focus on recasting Immo with meta proc, focus on refreshing with 4pc proc. 

 

Do not worry about Immo haste breakpoint unless you are going Mastery > Haste > Crit.  If you have chosen to build around crit after mastery there are no breakpoints to worry about.  

Edited February 25, 2014 by Soulzar

[Zagam 1,983]

At what value of haste will incinerate reach 1 sec cast time under backdraft?

Value is in the chart on the Destro guide.

[Cardio33 3]

Value is in the chart on the Destro guide.

Every time I dig into the details about my gameplay I am learning how big of a scrub I am.

 

 

Just learned I should never cast incinerate under a backdraft proc when meta or BL is up.  

 

 

Thanks for all the help.  +rep, +likes

[Belloc 6]

Especially if you stack crit over haste after maxing your mastery, races without broken haste racials need to use 3 backdraft charges to get two CB out during the 5 second 4p proc.  The 4pc proc with all those int procs is one of the main contributors to the awesome scaling of those first two CB.

 

Conflags are also instant with no cast time which is an inportant contributor to building that first Ember early enough to catch your 10 second int proc and prepot.

 

 

 

Dont use RoF single target.  Just cast incin.  

 

Dont try to focus on recasting Immo with meta proc, focus on refreshing with 4pc proc. 

 

Do not worry about Immo haste breakpoint unless you are going Mastery > Haste > Crit.  If you have chosen to build around crit after mastery there are no breakpoints to worry about.  

I was under the impression that we were supposed to use RoF single-target when we had haste procs/cooldowns up (so, meta or heroism). Is this not the case?

[Cardio33 3]

I was under the impression that we were supposed to use RoF single-target when we had haste procs/cooldowns up (so, meta or heroism). Is this not the case?

You are correct, my understanding is that this is just for the opener and with Garrosh trinket which only has a 10 sec proc.

[Zagam 1,983]

Rain of Fire is a SMALL benefit to use with Haste procs up, not Intellect procs.  You're not fishing for extra damage - you're fishing for more Embers.  The Rain of Fire use has to generate at least 3 Ember bits to be more valuable than a potential Incinerate since it has a chance to crit.  If it hits more than 1 target, then it has a higher priority than Incinerate.  Keep this in mind - but remember it has a small effect one way or another.

[Liquidsteel 279]

I think the RoF single target is just hassle so I don't bother - yeah it might be a very small gain like Zagam said, but dealing with the reticule and what not is just bothersome.

[Nytemare 2]

I currently am a 565 and have 30% haste when buff, should I try for more? Right now immolate has +2, should I change the picker for Robot to +3 or +4 and go that route?

 

Or am I good and can now focus on Mastery?

[Lockybalboa 618]

Mastery should always be your first priority. No matter what.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Did you read this guide, or did you just post in this thread first? Under the stats section, "1) Mastery is king." You ONLY pick a haste threshold before mastery for Affliction/Demonology, but even then you don't want to pick one so high your mastery is super low.

 

Have you read around the other threads here? We answer all of these, including why you shouldn't use Ask Mr Robot, in like half the threads people create.

[Nytemare 2]

A) I don't use robots weights I do my own, just use them to put it all together

 

B ) Not my 1st time here, I have posted many times about different things. Mastery is King, but I added haste to get more procs. With my gear I have a 30% haste with a pretty high mastery. Asking if I should try for +3 or +4 immolate haste at which case I lose some mastery. Demo / Affliction is also my off spec - mostly demo.

 

I like mastery as a Destro but having a 2.5 and under CB cast is also good as it allows me to get two off with out having to use backdraft to get one off before trinkets wear off.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Nytemare

[Lockybalboa 618]

+3 and +4 Immolate is moronic. That would mean you need 18200 haste or 26318 haste respectively.

 

Or am I good and can now focus on Mastery?

 

From what you said it sounded like you were prioritizing stats OTHER then mastery as your main stat. That would be bad.

 

You can play with a high haste build as destro, but you should never sacrifice mastery for more haste. Ever.

[Belloc 6]

A) I don't use robots weights I do my own, just use them to put it all together

 

B ) Not my 1st time here, I have posted many times about different things. Mastery is King, but I added haste to get more procs. With my gear I have a 30% haste with a pretty high mastery. Asking if I should try for +3 or +4 immolate haste at which case I lose some mastery. Demo / Affliction is also my off spec - mostly demo.

More procs? Of what? I hope you're not referring to RPPM trinkets, because they stopped scaling with haste in 5.4, I believe.

[Zagam 1,983]

The only thing that scales with Haste in regards to proc is Essense of Yu'lon.  Not worth pushing for more Haste.  TECHNICALLY you're pushing for more procs of RPPM trinkets that proc on spell damage because the more hits you deliver, the more likely the proc rate, but in the overall scheme, pursuing more Haste for more procs isn't ideal.

[Deamux 4]

Ooh a question just popped up in my head. How do we want to refresh immolate. Do we refresh each time the 4set piece bonus procs ? To get a as high as possible uptime on immolate being buffed by the 4 set piece? Or de we simply wait for it to nearly fall of and then refresh it, not considering the 4 set piece? 

 

Hmm I feel like this is one of those things I should already know 

 

(Oh darn just noticed i'm a Peasant now! Awesome  )

Edited March 7, 2014 by Deamux

[Zagam 1,983]

Immolate refreshing takes a low priority to snapshotting other abilities.  If you're getting into snapshotting, you'd be far better off buffing your Chaos Bolt by 15% than snapshotting Immolate.  If you are SUPER fast to react, you can get a CB off AND refresh Immolate in that 5 second window. 

 

Immolate should be updated like all other DoTs - watch Affdots and if the number is large, refresh Immo.