5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[Deamux 4]

Thank you!

[bangorme 0]

When I look at locks producing significantly higher dps than myself, I usually see higher chaos bolt damage.  Right now I am using chaos bolt if I have the proc from Purrified Bindings of Immerseus, or when embers are >= 3.5 .  But I've got two other things I could be casting on:  Proc for Kardis Toxic Tottem, and Dark Soul.  Should I be throwing chaos bolts on all of these?

 

[mediocregatsby 18]

casting CB when you are at 3.5 embers with no procs is basically the worst case scenario and should be avoided as much as possible by casting CBs with 2+ procs. there are exceptions like when a burn phase is coming or your PBI ICD + DS cooldowns are coming up in a few seconds.

[bangorme 0]

casting CB when you are at 3.5 embers with no procs is basically the worst case scenario and should be avoided as much as possible by casting CBs with 2+ procs. there are exceptions like when a burn phase is coming or your PBI ICD + DS cooldowns are coming up in a few seconds.

 Well, here's the problem, I'm getting to 3.5 embers waiting on one proc, nevermind 2+ procs.  Should I be saving dark soul for one of the two procs?

[mediocregatsby 18]

no you should be using darksoul whenever it's available. at most wait some seconds if you track your PBI ICD.

 

what procs are you tracking? aside from your 2 trinkets and DS, you should also track the 4pc bonus, jade spirit, and profession bonus if you have one. even 1 proc is fine although suboptimal unless you're getting to 3 embers.

[bangorme 0]

what procs are you tracking? aside from your 2 trinkets and DS, you should also track the 4pc bonus, jade spirit, and profession bonus if you have one. even 1 proc is fine although suboptimal unless you're getting to 3 embers.

 

I'm tracking: 

1) Expanded mind (2 piece bonus)

2) Lightweave (tailoring)

3) Empowered Grasp (PBI proc)

4) Attack Proc Intellect (KTT proc)

 

I am NOT tracking the 4 piece bonus.  So if I track that, that will give me five things, and you are suggesting that I wait until at least two of them proc?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Should definitely be tracking the 4 set. Mostly for ensuring immolate is kept refreshed with it, but also for min maxing chaos bolt damage.

[bangorme 0]

Should definitely be tracking the 4 set. Mostly for ensuring immolate is kept refreshed with it, but also for min maxing chaos bolt damage.

So, you agree that I should be using chaos bolt when 2 or more procs are up?

[Liquidsteel 279]

I would cast chaos bolt with 4 piece only if I'm at 3 embers. Conditions apply but they've already been covered (such as PBI off ICD and dark soul ready to go).

 

I don't track tailoring or jade spirit. Probably an oversight but not really too bothered.

[mediocregatsby 18]

I'm tracking: 

1) Expanded mind (2 piece bonus)

2) Lightweave (tailoring)

3) Empowered Grasp (PBI proc)

4) Attack Proc Intellect (KTT proc)

lol these are so wrong

 

expanded mind is PBI proc

empowered grasp is the 2 piece bonus for AFFLICTION

destructive influence is the 2 piece bonus for destruction

ember master is the 4 piece bonus for destruction

toxic power is the KTT proc

[Zagam 1,983]

Use Chaos Bolt with any of the following procs (DO NOT WAIT FOR MORE AND WASTE YOUR OPPORTUNITIES)

 

1) PBI (Expanded Mind)

2) KTT (Toxic Power)

3) 4pc proc (15% bonus damage)

4) Dark Soul (30% bonus damage)

[bangorme 0]

Use Chaos Bolt with any of the following procs (DO NOT WAIT FOR MORE AND WASTE YOUR OPPORTUNITIES)

 

1) PBI (Expanded Mind)

2) KTT (Toxic Power)

3) 4pc proc (15% bonus damage)

4) Dark Soul (30% bonus damage)

Thanks Zag and everyone else that commented.  I'll try this during my next raid.

[gahhda 95]

Use Chaos Bolt with any of the following procs (DO NOT WAIT FOR MORE AND WASTE YOUR OPPORTUNITIES)

 

1) PBI (Expanded Mind)

2) KTT (Toxic Power)

3) 4pc proc (15% bonus damage)

4) Dark Soul (30% bonus damage)

 

4pc proc should only be used when at or above 3 embers.

 

 

Immolate refreshing takes a low priority to snapshotting other abilities.  If you're getting into snapshotting, you'd be far better off buffing your Chaos Bolt by 15% than snapshotting Immolate.  If you are SUPER fast to react, you can get a CB off AND refresh Immolate in that 5 second window. 

 

Immolate should be updated like all other DoTs - watch Affdots and if the number is large, refresh Immo.

 

I know I posted both of these in a thread like yesterday...

 

When it comes to critical chance increases, immolate almost always outweighs the chaos bolt, assuming that immolate either has a low duration or a low crit chance presently. The damage increase to the immolate in combination with the increase in embers will outweigh the damage increase to the chaos bolt. These cases almost never happen regardless, as our primary crit % buff, the 4pc, lasts long enough to accomplish both a chaos bolt and an immolate.

Edited March 18, 2014 by gahhda

[Mephistolol 0]

Use Chaos Bolt with any of the following procs (DO NOT WAIT FOR MORE AND WASTE YOUR OPPORTUNITIES)

 

1) PBI (Expanded Mind)

2) KTT (Toxic Power)

3) 4pc proc (15% bonus damage)

4) Dark Soul (30% bonus damage)

So I've got a couple questions and comments. I'm a former top 10 DPS parser myself that just came back after a multi-tier hiatus. 

1) What do you guys feel is better: dumping all embers on CB so long as you'll snapshot during the procs, or constrain 1 or 2 (assuming you had 3.5 or so) for other purposes? Historically I feel I've been screwing this up lately -- only dumping 1-2 CBs and trying to get Immo snapshotted, though back-to-back-to-back CBs are possible w/o Backdraft charges on a 10s proc timer such as PBoI or KTT. In that case, you may lose out on Conflag charge cap or Immo uptime. This nuance has been greatly affecting my analysis of ember dumping and I feel clarification for max DPS would be excellent.

2) Can BB beat out KTT assuming you get your CBs in at ~7 and 10 stacks, or 6 and 9 stacks? I agree the movement can totally screw that, but maximizing a 10s proc all depends on whether you can squeeze the casts in before it expires and casting something that takes ~2.5s with 2.4s left on proc is a waste of time. Another nuance I am trying to correct.

3) As someone fresh back and first tier of MoP, I feel really shitty losing to someone 9 ilvl ahead of me. I'm 563 and the other lock is 572. For a while I was beating the entire raid (10-man moderate skill guild), but he corrected some snapshotting and seems to be pulling his gear. Should I be worried of DPS, or is the difference in our gear absolutely monumental? We're talking ~12m damage difference on Heroic Jugg. 

4) Which fights are best to glyph Havoc? I have yet to glyph it and I know it's just me forgetting the glyph exists. I'm smarter than this. 

 

My motivation isn't just to be good for my guild, but to absolutely squeeze every single .1 dps out of my gear. I know my DPS is strong, but there are some critical errors in snapshotting and mechanics I feel I still can correct, despite stomping a raid filled with 570-somethings.

 

Best and Cheers,

Meph

EDIT: Link to robot -- https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/zuluhed/meph%C3%AFsto

EDIT2: Another Q: How do we feel about macroing DS+Racial(orc) into Immo/Incin for maximum uptime? I don't have the ability to save and sometimes (rarely) they go off in downtime of a fight (p2 jugg, immers, etc) rather than being able to sync with Lust. I feel the uptime is worth it because holding onto it is a certain DPS loss.

 

Edited March 24, 2014 by Mephistolol

[JvChequer 43]

2) Can BB beat out KTT assuming you get your CBs in at ~7 and 10 stacks, or 6 and 9 stacks? I agree the movement can totally screw that, but maximizing a 10s proc all depends on whether you can squeeze the casts in before it expires and casting something that takes ~2.5s with 2.4s left on proc is a waste of time. Another nuance I am trying to correct.

 

 

I feel that only a great haste build could make BB beating KTT because u could menage around 2-3 Chaos bolt with good procs.

 

4) Which fights are best to glyph Havoc? I have yet to glyph it and I know it's just me forgetting the glyph exists. I'm smarter than this.

 

 

I can see only Thok where Glyphed version it's a dps gain over Non-glyphed.

 

Klaxxi and Garrosh Glyphed version it's more around utility. Not best choice dps-wise.

Klaxxi for burning down first boss and the third one with the shooter.

Garrosh for T1 + especific weapon.

Edited March 24, 2014 by JvChequer

[Mephistolol 0]

Thanks, Chequer! 


While I wait to see what other ideas surround my questions, I'm curious if anyone has a link on SimCraft of 4-set DPS estimates? I wonder because our 572 lock has heroic non-set pieces in place of 4 set and I'm curious how that pans out. I would estimate that 15% damage to 1 CB and another cast is a pretty nice DPS increase. 

I think I've come to theory on ember dumping. If those 4 procs are up, unload as many embers as you can fit in *any* one of their procs and really reap rewards if they overlap like the double CB at beginning of fights. I imagine I can easily get 3 CBs in procs now instead of holding onto them. I think that may be a weak point of my DPS. 

Logs here: any analysis would be great though I know it's quite laborious and unless someone is extra bored....unlikely. 
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/pdrns7sxdtac2lsd/sum/damageDone/

Cheers! 

[Liquidsteel 279]

4 set is like a 5% (ish) dps increase, it's huge.

 

Definitely use a couple of normal tier pieces over heroic off pieces for it. If the choice is flex vs heroic then it gets iffy and will need to be simmed, probably worth using flex over heroic if it's just the one item.

 

May as well learn to use the 4 set anyway if the dps difference is close, in my opinion.

[Soulzar 42]

I use Glyphaed Havoc on:

 

Dark Shaman:  4 super buffed CB's on the dogs in opener makes me happy.  We use a split strat so my opportunities to Havoc after the dogs die are limited.  Slimes die too fast for me to reliably cleave Shadowburns each time, so I don't worry much about less overall charges and take em where I can.

 

Thok:  Copy two CB's (or CB and a few shadowburns) to Thok off Jailer when Thok is out of casting range.  Copy 6 Shadowburns from bats to Thok in Phase 2. 

 

*BlackFuse:  When I was doing Belts, I would only be on platform for every other time.  For that instance, I found Glyphed havoc nice to copy two CB's to boss while focusing Empowered Mines or one shotting small mines when doing platform duties.  When full time on platform i would not glyph havoc, so you can use it each belt.

 

I did not use Glyphed havoc in any fight Normal mode outside of Thok.   Mechanic wise normal is the same (only cleavable adds spaced more than a minute apart), you just don't have bats for the super Shadowburn cleave cheese.

[Mephistolol 0]

Hey all, 

Once again back after reading pretty much the entire thread and it has answered a ton of questions, but I'm back for specific questions related to my build (M > H > C). 

I haven't had great loot opportunities (I coined my staff/H PBI) and we haven't had much drop in the way of BiS gear, aside from drops that are haste heavy but ilvl upgrades (my HWF Sha-Seared Sandals over Reg 
Toxic Tornado Treads). I've been behind in gear and have taken what I could whenever given the chance, so I've unfortunately ended up extremely haste heavy.

Here is my gear profile & latest parse with most recent upgrades
https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/zuluhed/meph%C3%AFsto

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0yd72zvpu1ouxm3o/sum/damageDone/?s=6636&e=7071

PRE-Haste Heavy build (29% crit, 20% haste -- inverted from current gear)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/pmpcsofi13jbvwbc/sum/damageDone/

This particular parse I did have more CB damage.

My questions are:
1) In the parse listed, my damage is significantly sourced from Incinerate. I do the same opener as everyone else and micromanage my shards only to use them when procs are up or I have more than 3.5 embers. I find myself casting a LOT of unproc'd >3.5 ember CBs, which is still better than ember capping but my damage still is not primarily from CB. What am I doing wrong? Or is it just that I have so much haste, I'm getting out tons more Incinerates?

2) Being as it is, I try to dump 2-3 shards when I have DS+Bloodfury + PBoI up every 2 minutes and as many embers as possible within my Totem procs. Should I be reserving any shards in anticipation of 2-4+ procs rather than just when I see totem and dumping them all? My concern here is that I try to dump them all and still find myself capped 3.5 for pretty much all stacked procs. I can't see where I'm going wrong and my DPS is beating out 573-575s even so and without padding meters.

Any advice in the logs would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Edited March 29, 2014 by Mephistolol

[Nytemare 2]

Late reply, I went with 30% haste as I felt with my gear that was easy to get, looking ahead to when and if we can down more then one heroic boss, thinking I would end up with lot more haste so trying to figure if I should keep it and do +3-+4 or reforge it.

 

I try to aim for gear that has mastery on it first, then haste, then crit

 

Regarding CB casting - this is what I am doing

 

1) PBI (Expanded Mind) - Spend all embers on CB

2) KTT (Toxic Power) - spend only 1 if I at 3.5 and try to line with others

3) 4pc proc (15% bonus damage) - do 1 cb only if at 3.5 or more

4) Dark Soul (30% bonus damage) - only use when under PBI - see number 1

 

Base off what I just wrote, have I been using CB wrong? I asking because I want to get more dps in, I top now but I have this feeling I can get more in. 563- have macro Eng Gloves to filler to make sure it goes off ever 1min, as before I was only using it every 2 min

Edited March 30, 2014 by Nytemare

[Liquidsteel 279]

Definitely start doing at least 2 chaos bolts under KTT. If you're at 3 embers and PBI+DS is still over 30 seconds away, you can dump 3 embers and still replenish in time.

[Mephistolol 0]

Ok, most of my questions have gone unanswered in groups, so I'll stick to one:

Why is the other warlock in my guild who is pretty damn monster using RoF single target and going Grim of Supremacy? 

It's hard for me to tell if he's buffing himself that way, or nerfing himself since i'm 6 ilvl behind him and didn't have 4set until end of raid. 

I thought Sac was the obvious choice. RoF makes sense if you can weave it in, but Grim of Supr...hmmmm whats the advantage? It seems the 20% hp + regen + 15% damage is well worth it over a pet (seems around 10-15% overall damage on parses

[Zagam 1,983]

Ok, most of my questions have gone unanswered in groups, so I'll stick to one:

Why is the other warlock in my guild who is pretty damn monster using RoF single target and going Grim of Supremacy? 

It's hard for me to tell if he's buffing himself that way, or nerfing himself since i'm 6 ilvl behind him and didn't have 4set until end of raid. 

I thought Sac was the obvious choice. RoF makes sense if you can weave it in, but Grim of Supr...hmmmm whats the advantage? It seems the 20% hp + regen + 15% damage is well worth it over a pet (seems around 10-15% overall damage on parses

He could be more of a monster if he quit using RoF single target without significant Haste procs.  Also, Supremacy and Sacrifice aren't separated by a lot in single target scenarios, but it pulls way ahead when you properly use Shadowburn.  My guess is he's an old school guy who doesn't break habits easily.  He also may feel more comfortable, and thus do more DPS that way.  Removing RoF and going to GoSac would give him a DPS gain, but if you say he's a monster, he's doing fine all other things considered.

[mediocregatsby 18]

so im sure others have noticed by now, but killing something with a havoc shadowburn doesnt return embers sometimes, even though other times it does and killing it with a normal shadowburn always does. i've had this happen the entire expansion but always just chalked it up to blizz's shitty coding but i just got screwed out of a potentially top 5 parse because of this bug. anyone know if there's a way to specifically avoid this?

[Zagam 1,983]

I wouldn't be quick to diagnose it as not returning Embers on 'somethings.'  There are many somethings in the raid that don't give an Ember back such as the adds on Protectors.  Most of them are trash related.

 

If you want to figure it out, make sure you're running logs and note specific time stamps or fights where it happened.  Bring logs and I'll figure it out for you.