Assassination Rogue 7.3

[Mr13Lucky 0]

Hey everyone.  First, thanks to Furty for putting this together, and to all the knowledgeable commentors for their insights.

My question is this: it seems like there is some synergy between Elaborate Planning and Vigor.  More energy means more CPs, more CPs means more finishers, more finishers means more EP uptime.  Plus, I just like the energy regen with Vigor at these early stages.

So, from those that have done actual testing on this (rather than my somewhat anecdotal tests under varying circumstances that may influence the results) what are you finding?  Am I giving up significant DPS by going with Vigor instead of Deeper Strategem?

Thanks again to everyone for the help.

 

 

[Carrn 284]

On 9/5/2016 at 1:47 AM, Guest SomeRogue said:

Can someone explain me the Math behind [ elaborate planning ] being above Hemo?

Is it taking into consideration the energy regen we lose? is it taking in consideration the Vanish+Rupture?

 

The Sims that are run take everything into consideration, yes. The values for each are close, but ultimately EP will do more damage as things stand right now

22 hours ago, Guest Akemyie said:

I would put haste slightly ahead of mastery, because of kingsbane. The AS increases the chances of getting a poison application, which gives you some more damages.

Simulations are done to take into account all of the different skills available for each spec. This includes the artifact abilities and talents. 

In short, Haste doesn't change the chance of applying poisons by a very significant amount, whereas Mastery increased the damage of poisons by quite a bit.

[Carrn 284]

10 hours ago, Mr13Lucky said:

Hey everyone.  First, thanks to Furty for putting this together, and to all the knowledgeable commentors for their insights.

My question is this: it seems like there is some synergy between Elaborate Planning and Vigor.  More energy means more CPs, more CPs means more finishers, more finishers means more EP uptime.  Plus, I just like the energy regen with Vigor at these early stages.

So, from those that have done actual testing on this (rather than my somewhat anecdotal tests under varying circumstances that may influence the results) what are you finding?  Am I giving up significant DPS by going with Vigor instead of Deeper Strategem?

Thanks again to everyone for the help.

 

 

DS gives a more powerful Rupture, as explained in the guide

Additionally, as item level increases, Vigor becomes a much less attractive option. I recommend staying DS as the guide suggests, although because it is a slightly more complicated way of playing you might be more comfortable playing Vigor.

[Mr13Lucky 0]

5 hours ago, Carrn said:

DS gives a more powerful Rupture, as explained in the guide

Additionally, as item level increases, Vigor becomes a much less attractive option. I recommend staying DS as the guide suggests, although because it is a slightly more complicated way of playing you might be more comfortable playing Vigor.

Thanks, Carrn.  I am still leveling, so maybe that's why I'm feeling so energy starved without Vigor. The complexity of the rotation is not daunting using DS, so I'll follow your advice and go with recommended build. 

[Furty 51]

16 hours ago, Mr13Lucky said:

Thanks, Carrn.  I am still leveling, so maybe that's why I'm feeling so energy starved without Vigor. The complexity of the rotation is not daunting using DS, so I'll follow your advice and go with recommended build. 

Vigor is fine while leveling.

[Guest Guest]

As an fyi, nightstalker no longer affects rupture or garrote damage. I submitted a ticket to bliz, but as of right now vanish into 5/6 cp rupture will do no bonus damage. Nightstalker also does not affect the poison damage of kingsbane, but does affect the on hit portion of the damage.

[MrOger 20]

8 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

As an fyi, nightstalker no longer affects rupture or garrote damage. I submitted a ticket to bliz, but as of right now vanish into 5/6 cp rupture will do no bonus damage. Nightstalker also does not affect the poison damage of kingsbane, but does affect the on hit portion of the damage.

Er... It`s working fine for me.

[Guest Tsuid]

Hey, i'm not a pro of theorycrafting and haven't played since BC my question might be dumb but still i need to know :)

 

Concerning Stats Weight, during BC it used to change according to the tier u looted it. Ex : Haste had more value on a T6-tier gear than on a T4-tier gear. Does it work the same now ? Is this chart going to change with the release of raids/KZ ? Does it actually change already in NM / HM / MM dungeons?

Thx!

[Carrn 284]

The short answer is: it might.

The longer answer is that unless something else changes drastically, the stats will probably stay the same. The reason is that because so much of Assassinations's damage comes from bleeds, Mastery and Haste really don't have much of an impact; Mastery only affects poison damage, and Haste doesn't have enough of an impact on the bleeds to be meaningful. If, say, Envenom got buffed (or Rupture got nerfed), that could change the stat weights, but it would have to be an incredibly significant buff or nerf to do so.

[Calamity 0]

Howdy mates. Has anyone looked at the Rogue Doomblade pieces in the raids for Legion? Most of everything is Mastery + Crit or Haste - - versatility is few and far in between, and almost non-existent. How is this bleed build going to function for the raids when Blizzard is basically forcing Mastery on you regardless if you like it or not? Right now it's easy getting Versa+Crit by either drops or crafting it yourself, but when you're raiding, you won't really be wearing anything else but your tier pieces. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Calamity

[Valks 2,373]

18 hours ago, Calamity said:

Howdy mates. Has anyone looked at the Rogue Doomblade pieces in the raids for Legion? Most of everything is Mastery + Crit or Haste - - versatility is few and far in between, and almost non-existent. How is this bleed build going to function for the raids when Blizzard is basically forcing Mastery on you regardless if you like it or not? Right now it's easy getting Versa+Crit by either drops or crafting it yourself, but when you're raiding, you won't really be wearing anything else but your tier pieces. 

It's unfortunate when it happens, but sometimes your tier just has TERRIBLE stats. Maybe things will change before NH releases!

[Carrn 284]

On 9/9/2016 at 4:44 PM, Calamity said:

Howdy mates. Has anyone looked at the Rogue Doomblade pieces in the raids for Legion? Most of everything is Mastery + Crit or Haste - - versatility is few and far in between, and almost non-existent. How is this bleed build going to function for the raids when Blizzard is basically forcing Mastery on you regardless if you like it or not? Right now it's easy getting Versa+Crit by either drops or crafting it yourself, but when you're raiding, you won't really be wearing anything else but your tier pieces. 

This is part of the reason that Assassination doesn't scale as well as the other 2 specs as we get further into raid tiers.

When / if you start pushing into Mythic content, Sub catches up to and eventually passes Sin's potential output, mostly due to the fact that Sin has 2 stats that are effectively useless

[Guest Lev]

@Furty

First thank you for the guide, it is extremely helpfull !!

One question, levelling you artifact weapon, whih spec would you focus on ? 

Thanks for your answer.

 

[Carrn 284]

2 hours ago, Guest Lev said:

@Furty

First thank you for the guide, it is extremely helpfull !!

One question, levelling you artifact weapon, whih spec would you focus on ? 

Thanks for your answer.

 

This comment thread is reserved for comments about the Assassination guide. If you'd like to ask other questions you're welcome to come on over to the Rogue Forums and chat there.

That said, the most beneficial choice as it stands right now is Outlaw.

[Guest Malhier]

The opener sequence can't be right, can it?

I mean, you don't have any combo points generated for the Vanish/Rupture, and only three CPs for the first Rupture?

[Carrn 284]

10 hours ago, Guest Malhier said:

The opener sequence can't be right, can it?

I mean, you don't have any combo points generated for the Vanish/Rupture, and only three CPs for the first Rupture?

No I don't believe it's quite correct, however you should be Vanishing before using Rupture for the bonus damage from stealth thanks to the Nightstalker talent.

[Guest Lev]

3 hours ago, Carrn said:

No I don't believe it's quite correct, however you should be Vanishing before using Rupture for the bonus damage from stealth thanks to the Nightstalker talent.

opening sequence is correct :)

idea behind is to capitalize on the pandemic effect:

- you apply a 3 combo point rupture, than you proc all you cd's, then vanish (3 secs with 50% damage increase)

- you generate combo point up to 6 with mutilate and you rupture (full extended by pandemic duration of rupture buffed 50%)

- you exsanguinate

This will maximise the damage potential of exsanguinate.

 

 

 

[Carrn 284]

11 hours ago, Guest Lev said:

opening sequence is correct :)

idea behind is to capitalize on the pandemic effect:

- you apply a 3 combo point rupture, than you proc all you cd's, then vanish (3 secs with 50% damage increase)

- you generate combo point up to 6 with mutilate and you rupture (full extended by pandemic duration of rupture buffed 50%)

- you exsanguinate

This will maximise the damage potential of exsanguinate.

 

 

 

I understand the idea, however there is nothing in the opening sequence that lists anything to do with generating combo points, which makes it not quite correct

[MrOger 20]

I have a question about this part of artifact traits guide

Quote

Moving into Master Assassin will allow you to use Vendetta more often, which boosts your single target noticeably and has much better synergy with Exsanguinate.

How does it actually boosts? I mean - isn`t better to overlap it with vanish-rupture-exanguinate combo? Or better using it on cd with non-vanished rupture-exanguinate?

[Carrn 284]

2 hours ago, MrOger said:

I have a question about this part of artifact traits guide

How does it actually boosts? I mean - isn`t better to overlap it with vanish-rupture-exanguinate combo? Or better using it on cd with non-vanished rupture-exanguinate?

At 1:30 cooldown, you can line it up with every second Exang, which is really great. I don't think it no longer lining up with Vanish is all that big a deal, since ultimately you'll get to use it more often during a fight, and the bonus damage from Vanish will still happen 

[Guest JPax]

Hmm, I still can't see why versatility pulls ahead of haste. Sure it's a flat damage increase, but haste offers:

-Innate energy regeneration improvements.

-More ticks for bleed DoT's which means higher stand-alone damage and increased energy regeneration allowing more fluid skill use.

-More applications of poison during Kingsbane through auto attacks and ability casts, increasing it's damage buff and increasing it's DoT damage.

 

I can see that Versatility scales better on a flat value, but does it outweigh all of the above?

[Carrn 284]

3 hours ago, Guest JPax said:

Hmm, I still can't see why versatility pulls ahead of haste. Sure it's a flat damage increase, but haste offers:

-Innate energy regeneration improvements.

-More ticks for bleed DoT's which means higher stand-alone damage and increased energy regeneration allowing more fluid skill use.

-More applications of poison during Kingsbane through auto attacks and ability casts, increasing it's damage buff and increasing it's DoT damage.

 

I can see that Versatility scales better on a flat value, but does it outweigh all of the above?

In short, yes.

Energy regen doesn't matter all that much, since you refund a fair amount through finishers and Venomous Wounds.

It actually doesn't have that much of an impact on our bleeds, certainly not as much as a flat % increase does

Fact is our poisons do a minuscule amount of damage compared to Rupture, and that includes Kingsbane

[Guest JPax]

19 hours ago, Carrn said:

In short, yes.

Energy regen doesn't matter all that much, since you refund a fair amount through finishers and Venomous Wounds.

It actually doesn't have that much of an impact on our bleeds, certainly not as much as a flat % increase does

Fact is our poisons do a minuscule amount of damage compared to Rupture, and that includes Kingsbane

And they're nerfing kingsbane too..... fair enough, it just feels off that I'm currently sat with a lot of waiting for energy to recharge. Incidentally, how do you mean we refund energy through finishers? Assassination doesn't get energy back from using them.

[Guest worgsn]

Hi, i'm really curious if its worth going Nightstalker over Subterfuge which provides stable DPS increase and synergises well with Thuggee on AoE and goes well with Exsanguinate.

[Carrn 284]

The short answer is no, not really. The main reason is that the damage from Rupture is so absurdly high, and increasing that by 50% more is great.

Garrote is a good skill, but doesn't do anywhere near the damage that Rupture does