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Damien

Subtlety Rogue 7.3

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39 minutes ago, Guest Aoe Burst said:

Can someone explain to me how to AoE burst as a sub rogue? The only AoE we got is Shuriken storm isnt it? Even with Shadow Dance the dmg might get doubled, but unless there are about 5+ adds around wont Shadow strikes + Eviscerate be dealing more damage in general? Also, even with Vigor you will be running out of energy after 5 casts and then it takes a while to get the next ones back in, no?

`Sorry for this newb question, but Im almost completly new to WoW.

SS generates a lot of combo points. On extended AoE you'll use your CP to apply Nightblades. That said your AoE is not going to be very impressive when compared with a proper spec like Marksman or Havoc.

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7 hours ago, Blainie said:

I might be wrong, but I believe it is because Weaponmaster has technically more potential AoE damage? It's not just a flat 6% damage boost. Technically it could proc on every single ability you case over the course of a 6-minute fight. Will it? No, you have better chances of multiple lottery wins, but it technically could. 

Going to tag @Carrn anyway, since he can explain better than me, or point out an error!

I think primarily it's because of how Weaponmaster works with Shuriken Storm (ability) and Second Shuriken (artifact trait). Weaponmaster doesn't roll on ability cast, it rolls on target hit - when there's 1 target, it has a 6% chance to hit twice, but when there's 2 targets being hit it has 2 different 6% chances to hit twice (once on each target).  

Second Shuriken is literally just more chances to strike twice - if I'm correct (and I'm not 100% sure that I am), Second Shuriken can proc off both the initial hit and the Weaponmaster duplicate, and it can also proc Weaponmaster on its own.

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7 hours ago, Blainie said:

Our PvP guides are slowly being introduced, but currently we're just trying to make sure there is a guide for each class. We'll work hard to introduce more spec guides, but it does take time! 

Let me know if you want some help with these - I've been trying to write a basic introductory guide for Arenas in general, but haven't really been able to find much time recently. If it's actually something you want to push for the site I'll make it more of a priority and see how I can help

pm me for my Skype if you'd like to chat about it

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Guest `Grp
22 hours ago, Furty said:

SS generates a lot of combo points. On extended AoE you'll use your CP to apply Nightblades. That said your AoE is not going to be very impressive when compared with a proper spec like Marksman or Havoc.

Why would ppl allow Rogues in their group then? Dont get me, Rogue is my fav Class, but it seems other Meeles like Windwalker Monk are much stronger right now ?

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11 hours ago, Guest `Grp said:

Why would ppl allow Rogues in their group then? Dont get me, Rogue is my fav Class, but it seems other Meeles like Windwalker Monk are much stronger right now ?

Every spec has different strengths and weaknesses.

One of Rogues' strengths is not burst AoE, although Sub's is not bad. Other classes, like DH or WW Monk, have very strong burst AoE

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Guest `Grp
6 hours ago, Carrn said:

Every spec has different strengths and weaknesses.

One of Rogues' strengths is not burst AoE, although Sub's is not bad. Other classes, like DH or WW Monk, have very strong burst AoE

Thanks everyone for answering my noob questions ^^

I dont know. Im kinda not getting how to deal more then 250k dps constantly. My GS is 859 atm, Im kinda gimping around at 200-250k (with bufffood, flask etc). Ive read the Guide (obvly), I often find myself pooling my Energy, or at longer encounters simply running out of ShadowDances.

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11 hours ago, Guest `Grp said:

Thanks everyone for answering my noob questions ^^

I dont know. Im kinda not getting how to deal more then 250k dps constantly. My GS is 859 atm, Im kinda gimping around at 200-250k (with bufffood, flask etc). Ive read the Guide (obvly), I often find myself pooling my Energy, or at longer encounters simply running out of ShadowDances.

And to be entirely fair WW and Havoc are limited to that single spec, so they often fail to have the same adaptive nature and viability patch to patch or fight to fight that Rogues can bring to bear.

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18 hours ago, Guest `Grp said:

Thanks everyone for answering my noob questions ^^

I dont know. Im kinda not getting how to deal more then 250k dps constantly. My GS is 859 atm, Im kinda gimping around at 200-250k (with bufffood, flask etc). Ive read the Guide (obvly), I often find myself pooling my Energy, or at longer encounters simply running out of ShadowDances.

If you're struggling DPS-wise, the easiest way to get help is through posting logs on our Rogue forum, for sure.

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Guest Silvya
23 hours ago, Guest `Grp said:

Thanks everyone for answering my noob questions ^^

I dont know. Im kinda not getting how to deal more then 250k dps constantly. My GS is 859 atm, Im kinda gimping around at 200-250k (with bufffood, flask etc). Ive read the Guide (obvly), I often find myself pooling my Energy, or at longer encounters simply running out of ShadowDances.

When gearing up and looting the right legendary (boots not to mention them) you gain dps really fast. Ursoc trinket and the boots allowed my simcrafts to gain 100k dps (not as much on a real fight but not far).

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Guest `Grp
3 hours ago, Guest Silvya said:

When gearing up and looting the right legendary (boots not to mention them) you gain dps really fast. Ursoc trinket and the boots allowed my simcrafts to gain 100k dps (not as much on a real fight but not far).

Well I cant really influence that, sadly :P wouldnt mind a Legendary for sure ^^.

8 hours ago, Blainie said:

If you're struggling DPS-wise, the easiest way to get help is through posting logs on our Rogue forum, for sure.

Where do I find them?

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Guest Bandito

Hello,

After reading this guide, I decided to switch from Vigor to Deeper Stratagem. Simcraft indeed tells me this should increase my overall DPS, but I really struggle getting 4 Shadowstrikes inside Shadowdance without the 150 energy pool. Even on dummy target, entering Shadowdance with 100 energy, I smash my keyboard like crazy but I'm only able to pull out SS-SS-Eve-SS, and then I come out SD with too little energy to do that 4rth Shadowstrike.

Not that I have about 7% haste, but do you get 4 SS inside SD with the DS talent?

 

Thank you!

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58 minutes ago, Guest Bandito said:

Not that I have about 7% haste, but do you get 4 SS inside SD with the DS talent?

Leaving this for @Furty or @Carrn, whoever is fastest! I can't answer it unfortunately, sorry!

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6 hours ago, Guest Bandito said:

Hello,

After reading this guide, I decided to switch from Vigor to Deeper Stratagem. Simcraft indeed tells me this should increase my overall DPS, but I really struggle getting 4 Shadowstrikes inside Shadowdance without the 150 energy pool. Even on dummy target, entering Shadowdance with 100 energy, I smash my keyboard like crazy but I'm only able to pull out SS-SS-Eve-SS, and then I come out SD with too little energy to do that 4rth Shadowstrike.

Not that I have about 7% haste, but do you get 4 SS inside SD with the DS talent?

 

Thank you!

Sometimes you won't get it, and sometimes it will happen easily. Energetic Stabbing (artifact trait) makes it much easier to get

As you get a little higher Haste it happens regularly - I sit around 9.5% in current gear and the only time I don't get 4SS is when I need to refresh Symbols of Death. Even then, if you use a 6CP finisher, you have a 20% change to refund energy a second time, which means you can refresh SoD for free and still hit 4 SS casts.

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Guest Guest

I would resally appreciate if sb could update the sub guide... I've no idea, if I'm playing correctly and a lot here is outdated.

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Guest Maive

Hi.  I just want to give some input.  Shadowcraft lists the stat weights (for my gear set, of course) as:

Agility 1.00

Mastery 0.85

Versatility 0.80

Crit 0.75

Haste 0.55

These weights are significantly in contrast to the weights listed on this guide.  It also lists Weaponmaster as being significantly better (about 50% better) than Master of Subtlety.  I have tested this MANY times on a target dummy, and I consistently get significantly better results with Weaponmaster.  This is in contrast with this guide, which suggests that Master of Subtlety is better when no adds are present.  

I am 855 equipped item level (858 overall), and can consistently do 300k DPS, adds or not, with suboptimal food (drogbar salmon), suboptimal flask (greater draenic agility), and suboptimal potions (prolonged power).  

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Guest Maive
On 11/15/2016 at 5:24 PM, Guest Bandito said:

Hello,

After reading this guide, I decided to switch from Vigor to Deeper Stratagem. Simcraft indeed tells me this should increase my overall DPS, but I really struggle getting 4 Shadowstrikes inside Shadowdance without the 150 energy pool. Even on dummy target, entering Shadowdance with 100 energy, I smash my keyboard like crazy but I'm only able to pull out SS-SS-Eve-SS, and then I come out SD with too little energy to do that 4rth Shadowstrike.

Not that I have about 7% haste, but do you get 4 SS inside SD with the DS talent?

 

Thank you!

I can tell you what's going on here.  If you don't have Shadowblades active, two Shadowtrikes will only yield 4 combo points.  So before you Eviscerate, you have to let Shadow Techniques give you a bonus combo point so your Eviscerate is with 5 combo points and you have a 100% chance for your Eviscerate to refund energy via Relentless Strikes.  If you Evis before getting that extra combo point, there is a 20% chance it will not refund any energy, and you won't be able to get 4 Shadowstrikes in your Shadow Dance window.  Also, if Shadow Techniques takes too long to generate that 5th combo point, you won't have enough Shadow Dance window left to get 4 Shadowstrikes, even with the energy refund.  

Sometimes you just can't get 4 Shadow Strikes due to bad luck. 

(Note, I have 3% haste and can usually get 4 off if I wait no longer than half a second or so to get that 5th combo point before using Evis.  I use Subterfuge)

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Guest Maive

I also want to give some input on Weaponmaster.  Keep in mind it gives your abilities a 6% chance to hit twice each time they deal damage.  This means each Nightblade TICK has this chance.  If you keep Nightblade up for long enough, it effectively results in a 6% damage increase to Nightblade.  Also, if it procs on a combo point generating move, you get the combo points twice as well as the damage.  And besides all that, if you're lucky enough for it to proc on an Evis, that by itself is enough to make it better than Master of Subtlety.  

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Just posting in response to all of the comments above! I'm really sorry guys, I've made sure to put down a note and will poke the writer for a set of updates. I know this isn't what you want and you'd prefer for me to tell you it has already been done, but unfortunately I can't!

Anyway, I can only ask for your patience once more and hopefully we'll get things up to standard once more! :)

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Guest Stats

So the Stat Priority is outdated? Where can I find the new exact ones? Seems like Mastery got slightly more important than Vers now.

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18 hours ago, Guest Stats said:

So the Stat Priority is outdated? Where can I find the new exact ones? Seems like Mastery got slightly more important than Vers now.

Mastery and Vers are close to equal. Stat weights will always change; to find out what is best for your character you should sim your character

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Guest Stats
On 26.11.2016 at 10:31 PM, Carrn said:

Mastery and Vers are close to equal. Stat weights will always change; to find out what is best for your character you should sim your character

 

Phew that looks awfully complicated.

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Guest Maive
15 hours ago, Guest Stats said:

 

Phew that looks awfully complicated.

If you know a little bit of basic algebra you can find rough values of your stat weights using a target dummy.  It's just going to be less accurate than simming because a simulation can run a fight thousands of times whereas you would probably only run a target dummy tens of times.  However it would more accurately reflect your *rotation* (the way you use your abilities, really).  

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Guest Lucient

Is this guide going to be updated anytime soon? It still shows vers > mastery when mastery is best stat then vers should be second. Also will vigor be chosen over DS in the upcoming patch 7.1.5? Thank you.

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      With an army of nerubian soldiers closing in on them, our heroes' only hope for escape is to jump from the city's edge into the waters deep below. Anduin and the player jump first, but Alleria hesitates when Xal'atath shows herself. Xal'atath attempts to convince Alleria to embrace the dark path. Alleria hesitates for a moment but quickly rejects her, escaping off the cliffside into the waters with the others. 11.0 RTC ASC: Airship Tangled Up
      The airship descends into Azj-kahet. The airship gets caught in the nerubian webs, coming to an abrupt halt and immediately beset by nerubian forces. Alleria and Faerin fight off the nerubians, but the lead nerubian boards the deck, readying an attack on Alleria. Suddenly, a vine/root/etc whips out, sending the nerubian flying. Alleria whips her head around to see Orwena off to the side, helping defend the ship. 11.0 [AIL] - Anduin is Lost
      Faerin, Alleria, and the player climb the ladder to the ship, only to see that Anduin has been left behind. Anduin sees the nerubians preparing a ballista that would take out the airship. He finds his resolve and jumps into the fray to stop them. Faerin, Alleria, and the player watch in horror as Anduin is enveloped by the horde of nerubians. 11.0 [TCC] - The Crystal Changes
      Just after Faerin and Great Kyron light the dawntower, Beledar shifts from light to void, and Hallowfall darkens. Faerin explains to Anduin that this is normal. The Arathi know what to do until it changes back. Alleria hears whispers from Xala'tath, telling her to look for Xala'tath deeper in the darkness. 11.0 [HFR] - Holy Flame Renewed
      Faerin begins the ritual to restore the Light, but looks back at Anduin. She's seen him struggle. She extends a hand. He refuses, but she insists. Finally, he accepts and joins in the ritual. Faerin tells Anduin to relax, breathe, let it all go. Be here in the Light. The Light begins to trickle and the ritual completes. 11.0 [FRS] Faerin's Rallying Speech
      Beledar remains in Shadow. Steelstrike tells the Arathi to fall back. Faerin says no. She insists the Arathi should bring their light into the darkness. She leads Steelstrike and the Arathi in the Lamplighter ritual. They turn the Eternal Flame back to the light, and Beledar shifts back to the Light. The Arathi are safe. 11.0 [TFA] The Fleets Arrive
      From over the horizon, ships approach. The combined might of the Alliance and Horde navies sail into the bay and come to a stop. Leading the armada, Jaina and Thrall stand confidently on deck. 11.0 [ADF] - Arathi Tower turns to dark Fire
      We zoom into the tower. Its light has been replaced with a shadowy flame. Around it are Order of Night cultists, channeling the shadows. Suddenly, an arrow strikes. Alleria appears. The cultists scatter, but the leader, Aelric, locks eyes with Alleria. The shadows have spoken of her. Alleria threatens him, but he flees. She turns her bow to the remaining cultists... 11.0 Z5 - Level Up - Chapter 2 [ZKR]
      Zev'kall, the Ascended general of the nerubian military, berates underlings for failing to keep the prisoners who escaped. To avoid word of this failure spreading, he executes the underlings. Then Zev'kall leaves for Siegehold. 11.0 [EUF] Earthen Unification Finale
      Merrix and Adelgonn agree to commit the earthen to the war. Adelgonn smashes the titan console to officially break the edicts. Celebration cuts short as klaxons ring out across the isle. A huge titan construct rises from the sea and heads toward shore. The titans don't take kindly to disobedience... 11.0 Raid [TSD] The Spider Drop
      The players defeat the first raid boss. From a platform above, the Queen orders her troops to cut the web, dropping the platform the players are on. The webs snap and everyone falls. The players land in the slime pit below. Xal'atath Assumes Control
      The player is stopped before they can destroy the final shackle. Xal'atath assumes control of Y'tekhi, enraging them through the black blood in their system. Lilian grabs the player and the two try to escape on her bat. Just as they think they're safe, Y'tekhi tears them out of the sky, into the city below. 11.0 [XEF] - Xal'atath Endgame Finale
      Cutscene plays. 11.0 [QAD] Queen Ansurek's Demise
      Queen Ansurek experiences a vision from Xal'atath in her dying moments at the end of the raid.
    • By Stan
      Here are all the Mage changes that went live in the second War Within Alpha build.
      Mages received a lot of class changes in Build 54361 and we've recapped them below. There are mostly talent / Hero talent changes.
      Mage
      Frost Mage - Frost Mage core passive Increases damage/healing by 9%: Arcane Echo, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Orb, Arcanosphere, Blast Wave, Blizzard, Comet Storm, Conflagration, Ebonbolt, Flame Patch, Flurry, Frost Bomb, Frost Nova, Frostbolt, Frozen Orb, Glacial Spike, Ice Lance, Living Bomb, Mastery: Icicles, Meteor, Nether Tempest, Ray of Frost, Snowdrift, Supernova Increases periodic damage/healing by 9%: Arcane Echo, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Orb, Arcanosphere, Blast Wave, Blizzard, Comet Storm, Conflagration, Ebonbolt, Flame Patch, Flurry, Frost Bomb, Frost Nova, Frostbolt, Frozen Orb, Glacial Spike, Ice Lance, Living Bomb, Mastery: Icicles, Meteor, Nether Tempest, Ray of Frost, Snowdrift, Supernova Scorch - Scorches an enemy for [ 24.4% of Spell Power ] Fire damage. Scorch is a guaranteed critical strike and increases your movement speed by 30% for 3 sec when cast on a target below 30% health. Castable while moving. Living Bomb - The target becomes a Living Bomb, taking [ 58.79% of Spell Power ] Fire damage over 4 sec, and then exploding to deal an additional 0 Fire damage over 2 sec, and reduced damage to all other enemies within 10 yds. Other enemies hit by this explosion also become a Living Bomb, but this effect cannot spread further. Frozen Orb - Launches an orb of swirling ice up to 40 yds forward which deals up to [ 226.6% 240% of Spell Power ] Frost damage to all enemies it passes through over 15 sec. Deals reduced damage beyond 8 targets. Grants 1 charge of Fingers of Frost when it first damages an enemy. Enemies damaged by the Frozen Orb are slowed by 30% for 3 sec. Critical Mass - Your spells have a 15% 10% increased chance to deal a critical strike. You gain 20% 15% more of the Critical Strike stat from all sources. Comet Storm - Calls down a series of 7 icy comets on and around the target, that deals up to [ 321.5% 350% of Spell Power ] Frost damage to all enemies within 6 yds of its impacts. Flame On - Reduces the cooldown of Fire Blast by 2 sec and increases the maximum number of charges by 1. Increases the maximum number of Fire Blast charges by 2. Feel the Burn - Fire Blast and Phoenix Flames increase your mastery by [ 300% 200% of mas ]% for 5 6 sec. This effect stacks up to 3 times. Improved Scorch - Casting Scorch on targets below 30% health increase the target's damage taken from you by 4% for 12 sec, stacking up to 3 times. Additionally, Scorch critical strikes increase your movement speed by 30% for 3 sec. Casting Scorch on targets below 4% health increase the target's damage taken from you by 4% for 12 sec. This effect stacks up to 2 times. Controlled Destruction - Pyroblast's damage is increased by 5% when the target is above 70% health or below 30% health. Damaging a target with Pyroblast increases the damage it receives from Ignite by 2%. Sun King's Blessing - After consuming 8 10 Hot Streaks, your next non-instant Pyroblast or Flamestrike cast within 30 sec grants you Combustion for 6 sec and deals 260% additional damage. Fervent Flickering - Ignite's damage has a 5% chance to reduce the cooldown of Fire Blast by 1 sec. Fire Blast's cooldown is reduced by 2 sec. Unleashed Inferno - While Combustion is active your Fireball, Pyroblast, Fire Blast, Scorch, and Phoenix Flames deal 50% increased damage and reduce the cooldown of Combustion by 1.25 sec. While Combustion is active, Flamestrike deals 25% increased damage and reduces the cooldown of Combustion by 0.25 sec for each critical strike, up to 1.25 sec. Convection - Each time Living Bomb explodes it has a 30% chance to reduce its cooldown by 2.0 sec. When a Living Bomb expires, if it did not spread to another target, it reapplies itself at 100% effectiveness. A Living Bomb can only benefit from this effect once. Splintering Sorcery - When you consume Nether Precision Tempest, conjure an Arcane Splinter that fires at your target. Arcane Splinter : Conjure raw Arcane magic into a sharp projectile that deals [ 70% of Spell Power ] Arcane damage. Arcane Splinter s embed themselves into their target, dealing [ 41.6% of Spell Power ] Arcane damage over 16 sec. This effect stacks. Look Again - Displacement has a 50% longer duration, 25% longer range, and leaves behind a Mirror Image. Displacement has a 50% longer duration and 25% longer range. Spellfire Spheres - Every 4 times you consume Clearcasting, conjure a Spellfire Sphere. While you're out of combat, you will slowly conjure Spellfire Spheres over time. Spellfire Sphere Increases your spell damage by 4% 2%. Stacks up to 3 times. Mana Addiction - Consuming Clearcasting grants you 3% Haste for 10 sec. Stacks up to 10 times. Multiple instances may overlap. Memory of Al'ar - While your Arcane Phoenix is active, you gain twice as many stacks of Mana Addiction. When your Arcane Phoenix expires, it empowers you, granting Arcane Soul for 3 sec, plus an additional 1 sec for each exceptional spell it had cast. Arcane Soul : Arcane Missiles has a 100% chance to proc Clearcasting. While your Arcane Phoenix is active, you gain twice as many stacks of Mana Addiction. When your Arcane Phoenix expires, it empowers you, granting Arcane Soul for 3 sec, plus an additional 0.5 sec for each exceptional spell it had cast. Arcane Soul : Arcane Barrage costs no mana, grants Clearcasting, and generates 4 Arcane Charges. Mark of the Fire Lord (new) - Flamestrike and Living Bomb apply Mastery: Ignite at 100% increased effectiveness.
    • By Staff
      Blizzard have detailed Mythic+ dungeon tuning that's live already, with Uldaman and Neltharus getting some changes.
      Mythic+ (Source)
      With hotfixes that are now live, we’ve made the following adjustments to Mythic+ dungeons:
      Uldaman: Legacy of Tyr
      Timer increased by 1 minute. Neltharus
      Chargath, Bane of Scales Fiery Focus’s Fire damage reduced by 25%.
    • By Staff
      Savage Ebony Battle Turtle is an upcoming promotion mount coming in Patch 10.2.7.
      The mount will be available in some sort of Promotion in the future.
      "The cannons are powered by an unquenchable rage to seek out enemies and bring them to justice. Nothing can outrun a cannon."

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