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Damien

Discipline Priest 7.3

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3 minutes ago, Benjignome said:

Never once said anyone was right or wrong, simply put forth a counter that you've obviously been offended by. You're not insightful to your tone, apparently. Feel free to get back on topic instead of starting a pissing contest. 

Oh, I guess the remarks where you dismissed plea and radiance as a viable option was my imagination. Here is an insightful comment to the readers: If you are curious about disc priest, feel free to use plea and radiance in your playstyle since it has a place in Disc priests rotation, despite what Benjignome says ;)

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Stop. What was a good discussion is now nothing more than derailing a feedback thread to argue.

Any further comments on the subject will be hidden. If you want to discuss it more, make a thread on the Priest forum.

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2 hours ago, Benjignome said:

Perhaps I need to go back to the drawing board then... I was on tank healing duty so the single target healing would naturally be higher. With what you linked that data would then devalue grace (much fewer shadowmends). 

In some of those scenarios the priests are casting radiance more than even PWS. I'm a bit stumped...

Now you can see why I was so surprised by your favour of Grace. It's good in 5-mans for sure, but for raids, it just doesn't fit the playstyle.

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2 minutes ago, Blainie said:

Now you can see why I was so surprised by your favour of Grace. It's good in 5-mans for sure, but for raids, it just doesn't fit the playstyle.

Yeah... I guess I'll have to revamp my focus next raid with PtW and more reliance or vast reliance on atonement healing. It's just so interesting because I felt to be contributing positively through SM and maybe that was simply from a tank focused healing perspective.  Truly shows there's more than one way to skin a cat ;). 

Im really curious (I'm new to wowlogs) what seems to be the average dps for these top discs or overal %dmg contribution? I'd like to have something to compare myself to for reference. 

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13 minutes ago, Benjignome said:

Im really curious (I'm new to wowlogs) what seems to be the average dps for these top discs or overal %dmg contribution? I'd like to have something to compare myself to for reference. 

At the top of each of those pages, you can click Damage Done and it should show you their damage numbers.

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58 minutes ago, Blainie said:

At the top of each of those pages, you can click Damage Done and it should show you their damage numbers.

Thanks Blainie. Really interesting looking at healing and damage numbers through entire raids. Average dps seemed to be 75kish which is nice to know. A question, since I've limited experience with twisted fate. Do atonement heals proc the talent or just direct heals at sub 35%? 

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1 hour ago, Benjignome said:

Thanks Blainie. Really interesting looking at healing and damage numbers through entire raids. Average dps seemed to be 75kish which is nice to know. A question, since I've limited experience with twisted fate. Do atonement heals proc the talent or just direct heals at sub 35%? 

It does proc from atonement, yep!

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21 minutes ago, Blainie said:

It does proc from atonement, yep!

That's awesome. For some reason I only thought it would proc from direct heals. So much to test. Thanks again for all the feedback. All this dialogue has been very helpful!

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Guest Random Disc Priest

To rephrase my previous question, what makes holy paladins better tank healers than us? I think we have a good shot at the job while being more versatile and mobile. I've only ever seen them in dungeon pugs and I'd rather not use that as the basis of comparison. :D

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21 hours ago, Benjignome said:

That's awesome. For some reason I only thought it would proc from direct heals. So much to test. Thanks again for all the feedback. All this dialogue has been very helpful!

No problem, I'm glad to have been some sort of help :)

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11 hours ago, Guest Random Disc Priest said:

To rephrase my previous question, what makes holy paladins better tank healers than us? I think we have a good shot at the job while being more versatile and mobile. I've only ever seen them in dungeon pugs and I'd rather not use that as the basis of comparison. :D

From a theoretical point of view, it's most likely due to the spell Light of the MartyrLight of the Martyr, as well as their double beacon etc.

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On 2016-09-30 at 11:58 AM, Blainie said:

From a theoretical point of view, it's most likely due to the spell Light of the MartyrLight of the Martyr, as well as their double beacon etc.

I agree with Blainie, it may not be the most optimized role for us. If you do find yourself in that role though (as I have in previous raids), grace + twist of fate is amazing for boosting shadowmend healing for a single target focus. That and pain sup/barrier make us quite adaptable to the role imo. 

Back at Blainie. Are there any damage trinkets that lend themselves well to disc? With the damage proc nerfed for disc I have a hard time justifying them over 'stat stick' trinkets like my crit/int arena trink. I also obtained twisted wind http://www.wowhead.com/item=139323&bonus=1807 and it's aoe damage proc seems useful for atonement healing against multiple mobs and in smaller party settings like mythic+. 

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8 minutes ago, Benjignome said:

Back at Blainie. Are there any damage trinkets that lend themselves well to disc? With the damage proc nerfed for disc I have a hard time justifying them over 'stat stick' trinkets like my crit/int arena trink. I also obtained twisted wind http://www.wowhead.com/item=139323&bonus=1807 and it's aoe damage proc seems useful for atonement healing against multiple mobs and in smaller party settings like mythic+. 

Best trinkets for disc healing:

Twisting Wind is the only damage trinket I would touch as disc and even then, it's just OK. Stat sticks are always useful and definitely more so than damage ones other than TW.

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6 minutes ago, Benjignome said:

I agree with Blainie, it may not be the most optimized role for us. If you do find yourself in that role though (as I have in previous raids), grace + twist of fate is amazing for boosting shadowmend healing for a single target focus. That and pain sup/barrier make us quite adaptable to the role imo.

I got the impression that they're the lube for progression content, where they focus on mitigating incoming damage through shields and Smite while helping out with healing and dps, which means that the tanks always have Atonement up and anyone else being hit by a mechanic or add gets the shield as a priority. Is this wrong?

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2 hours ago, SirPancake said:

I got the impression that they're the lube for progression content, where they focus on mitigating incoming damage through shields and Smite while helping out with healing and dps, which means that the tanks always have Atonement up and anyone else being hit by a mechanic or add gets the shield as a priority. Is this wrong?

I mean, I can't quite speak to your lube analogy but they do help with absorbs from shield and smite :) To my experience these absorbs are quickly absorbed but they do help to stabilize targets to some degree. Atonement on the tanks definitely makes sense and again, shields for fast atonements and to buy some time for either atonement heals or another healer's response.

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I posted this on the argument thread but feel it has value to be posted here as well (although edited to not be part of the argument).

Okay so first off I'm going to throw out that Disc is not support but a full healer. It is a very capable healer. But it is not really a spot healer. It does have periods of high and low intensity and that is okay. It doesn't make its healing any less valuable or mean it can't end up topping charts. What our role in a raid is is burst healing based on predicting when heavy raid wide damage is about to be taken. Since Lights Wrath gets 10% stronger with every atonement up, and we have a golden trait to increase our damage output by 1% for every atonement set up, you can get some seriously strong burst healing done if you play your cards right. That is our role.

Plea and radiance do have their place but it is important to not bother using them as heals. Healing is just an added bonus. What they are are atonement applicators. For the non intensive periods of a raid you are going to want to keep up only a few atonements as plea will become too expensive. If a high damage period is not coming up, do not use radiance as there is no real need to do so. But radiance is a great way to get atonements out when you know you're going to want to heal as much of the raid as possible as quickly as possible. However I would recommend that radiance spam not be your go to every time you need to get atonements out as that will still drain your mana. We also have rapture and power infusion if you took it.

As for shadowmend the only times I use it in a raid is when I can see someone is about to die. Even then I get a little irritated at doing so because as a disc priest we shouldn't be the ones to do so. But as a healer you gotta save them still.

Normally I find myself to be the second highest healer in the raid so I've got to be doing something right :P

But I will say that disc falls down in fights that do not have the most predictable damage curves. But that's okay, you can't win 'em all.

For dungeons, you are going to want to make sure you have taken grace instead of PtW as there will be a lot more useage of shadowmend in them. Sadly dungeons can't be played as bursty as raids as only being a party of 5 decreases the amount of atonement boosts you can get, so its more a matter of keeping health bars stable with atonement and then topping them back up with shadowmend.

My final point I would like to make is to please do not forget that you do have rapture, pain suppression, barrier, and power infusion (if you took it, but i recommend you do, it's great). You have a lot of tools at your disposal and it is important to remember them. They will save lives.

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I would like to ask about the Artifact Traits if they are still up to date. I saw a couple videos basically saying that the trait setup here is terrible and in comments of these videos people are linking to this guide and the creators are saying its all wrong. May I ask for input.

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On 7/23/2016 at 9:25 PM, Pandacho said:

I can't say anything about PvP, but from some testing of my disc on live on Friday I found it very fun and competitive enough in its new support niche. (I use Totaltotemic's rotation and talent set.)

That's right, disc doesn't top meters anymore just senselessly spamming PW:S (or not spamming, still wouldn't top) but for me it behaves exactly as it was extrapolated in countless discussions: 80-90% hps of a healer, 30-40%dps of a standard damager and not bad raid utility.

But you do have to use all the toolkit properly and it's completely different from how it was during WoD.

 

 

if this is now a support role id like to know why 150k heals is not good enough... seriously i was trying out some different talents in raid and had tripled my hps over what i was getting with icy veins suggestions and the gm told me he wanted me using icy veins talents. 

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10 hours ago, Sugartits said:
  On 7/24/2016 at 7:25 AM, Pandacho said:

I can't say anything about PvP, but from some testing of my disc on live on Friday I found it very fun and competitive enough in its new support niche. (I use Totaltotemic's rotation and talent set.)

That's right, disc doesn't top meters anymore just senselessly spamming PW:S (or not spamming, still wouldn't top) but for me it behaves exactly as it was extrapolated in countless discussions: 80-90% hps of a healer, 30-40%dps of a standard damager and not bad raid utility.

But you do have to use all the toolkit properly and it's completely different from how it was during WoD.

 

10 hours ago, Sugartits said:

if this is now a support role id like to know why 150k heals is not good enough... seriously i was trying out some different talents in raid and had tripled my hps over what i was getting with icy veins suggestions and the gm told me he wanted me using icy veins talents. 

Please check the date of what you are quoting - it's from July Beta testing and WoD expansion. :P

Hmm, I looked into IV talent suggestion - seems fine. I think we should rather look into your raid logs to understand where's the problem (if there is any).

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1 hour ago, Pandacho said:

 

Please check the date of what you are quoting - it's from July Beta testing and WoD expansion. :P

Hmm, I looked into IV talent suggestion - seems fine. I think we should rather look into your raid logs to understand where's the problem (if there is any).

i posted them in the priest forum and got no response. Along with my armory link. 

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23 hours ago, HeartsUnited said:

I would like to ask about the Artifact Traits if they are still up to date. I saw a couple videos basically saying that the trait setup here is terrible and in comments of these videos people are linking to this guide and the creators are saying its all wrong. May I ask for input.

I'm not really sure what deviation is possible, other than not taking Share in the Light early. Can you clarify what you think would be a better setup? I don't really see one.

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11 hours ago, Sugartits said:

i posted them in the priest forum and got no response. Along with my armory link. 

Sorry that I missed your post in the Priest forum, but it looks like you did get a very solid response the day after posting. Hopefully Pandacho and the other users' new comments can help a bit more.

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How do you guys think Unstable Arcanocrystal http://www.wowhead.com/item=141482/unstable-arcanocrystal&bonus=0 holds up vs the other trinkets for disc? Is sacrificing 1200ish int worth gaining all the other secondaries if I have a int/haste 845 trink?

Noxxic lists stat weights as:

Intellect [9.02] > Haste [7.52] > Crit [6.02] > Mastery [4.52] > Versatility [3.02]

Is this correct? If so it appears to lean towards arcano in this situation. 

Thanks so much!

Edited by Benjignome

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did npbody watch the viedo posted on this site of the 3 guys in the new raid downing first boss - one was a disc priest. he atones and smites with Pen / Schism on CD... it's that simple. I barely ever use shadowmend. We're not there to stabilise peoples HP and thats where the confusion comes in I think. Your job is to pump out consistent healing all the way through... penance does that on your atoned targets. Don't try and be what you're not - same as WoD.. we bubbled, we didn't heal. Now we atone, we don't "heal". I think Disc relies on rotation massively... don't deviate. Don't try and heal with SM. Atone, DPS and repeat. Thats what the top guys are doing. Its more boring than comign up with new play styles maybe and it gets scary at times when health runs low but you can bang out pain supression / barriers and divine star for extra quick life savers. Rotation is key for me for this class, stick to it and you'll hit the numbers the big boys do

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