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Discipline Priest 7.3

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23 hours ago, Blainie said:

There are currently no changes to disc in this week's "class tuning" update. The comment was put in the thread prior to all the changes being released, just in case Disc did receive any alterations. The only changes for Disc seems to be in PvP.

You don't understand. When the guide is updated there is no mention of what actually has been changed in the changelog. It would be nice to know in the future what has been altered in the guide so that readers can jump right into the details instead of reading the whole guide again in search of the alterations.

 

Example:

Last updated on Sep 22, 2016 at 22:07 by Vlad

 

Changelog

  • 29 Aug. 2016: Updated for Legion's launch.
  • 07 Aug. 2016: Updated the intro text slightly.
  • 18 Jul. 2016: Updated for the Legion pre-patch.

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8 hours ago, Guest Random Disc Priest said:

What's the role of a disc priest in a raid? I was thinking that their absorption spells could make them good tank healers and generally smoothing out the raid's damage intake, while reducing the dps loss of having an extra healer instead of a pure dps.

In general, Disc priests are the support/hybrid class in a raid that brings damage comparable to a tank and supply decent heals through atonement. We don't excell in single or in aoe healing, though we arguably have the best single target heal in Shadow Mend, but casting this frivolously will result in mana problems. I'd also recommend taking the talent Grace for to buff this skill. In dungeons this talent is mandatory.

What are we not? Reactionhealers. What do we do? We anticipate incoming damage and preemptively put Atonements on selected members so that when the damage comes in we can start dpsing heavily for heals.

We're no longer the shield healing class like in WoD. But it is still important to use Power Word: Shield on cooldown and use Rapture as a tool to shield people from incoming damage.

So the name of our game is Atonement. Since it takes global cooldowns to buff people, it is best to limit yourself with a handful of raidmembers. Keep in mind that the duration of each buff is short so keep track of it and don't overextend since it will drain your mana and you also need to start dpsing in order to heal the ones you buffed with atonement. An exception is when a raidwide aoe damage is incoming and you have the mana or when you get free mana usage from other healers (holy priest, resto druid). In that case you can use radiance to buff as many people as possible and start dpsing to undo the damage of heavy aoe.

There are more than one playstyles. But one constant factor remains: Anticipation. You must familiarize yourself with each raidencounter so that you know when damage is incoming.  Also, when damage is low, feel free to go into 'economic mode'. As in atone the tanks and use your standard dps rotation to preserve mana. We're not expected to top the meters so don't try to compete. It will only make you oom faster. As you grow more familiar with the class you will be more competitive, but for now it is best to get used to this super fun healing class.

Edited by Ladyoftheforest

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3 hours ago, Ladyoftheforest said:

You don't understand. When the guide is updated there is no mention of what actually has been changed in the changelog. It would be nice to know in the future what has been altered in the guide so that readers can jump right into the details instead of reading the whole guide again in search of the alterations.

The most recent changes are always automatically added here:

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/changelog

The changelog listed in the guide is normally used to inform people of changes on that specific page.

You can find the exact details in the changelog page (https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/changelog) as to what has actually changed across the guide.

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2 hours ago, Blainie said:

The most recent changes are always automatically added here:

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/changelog

The changelog listed in the guide is normally used to inform people of changes on that specific page.

You can find the exact details in the changelog page (https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/changelog) as to what has actually changed across the guide.

This is helpful and have bookmarked that page.

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1 hour ago, Ladyoftheforest said:

This is helpful and have bookmarked that page.

Glad I could be of assistance! If you have any other questions, just ask :)

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Guest Benjignome
4 hours ago, Ladyoftheforest said:

In general, Disc priests are the support/hybrid class in a raid that brings damage comparable to a tank and supply decent heals through atonement. We don't excell in single or in aoe healing, though we arguably have the best single target heal in Shadow Mend, but casting this frivolously will result in mana problems. I'd also recommend taking the talent Grace for to buff this skill. In dungeons this talent is mandatory.

What are we not? Reactionhealers. What do we do? We anticipate incoming damage and preemptively put Atonements on selected members so that when the damage comes in we can start dpsing heavily for heals.

We're no longer the shield healing class like in WoD. But it is still important to use Power Word: Shield on cooldown and use Rapture as a tool to shield people from incoming damage.

So the name of our game is Atonement. Since it takes global cooldowns to buff people, it is best to limit yourself with a handful of raidmembers. Keep in mind that the duration of each buff is short so keep track of it and don't overextend since it will drain your mana and you also need to start dpsing in order to heal the ones you buffed with atonement. An exception is when a raidwide aoe damage is incoming and you have the mana or when you get free mana usage from other healers (holy priest, resto druid). In that case you can use radiance to buff as many people as possible and start dpsing to undo the damage of heavy aoe.

There are more than one playstyles. But one constant factor remains: Anticipation. You must familiarize yourself with each raidencounter so that you know when damage is incoming.  Also, when damage is low, feel free to go into 'economic mode'. As in atone the tanks and use your standard dps rotation to preserve mana. We're not expected to top the meters so don't try to compete. It will only make you oom faster. As you grow more familiar with the class you will be more competitive, but for now it is best to get used to this super fun healing class.

I actually think our current itteration is an extremely strong single target healer who has to rely on atonement for spread damage and in this area we aren't as well equipped for rapid spread damage as say a holy priest. I've healed both raid and tanks but honestly our tank healing with grace + shadow mend along with shields is fantastic. We completed normal dream last night and I was top healing and lowest overhealing through the overall raid. Did heroic ursoc last week and also felt to be in a great spot.

Radiance is an absolute waste of mana and almost all of your atonements should be applied by shadow mend and PWS. I agree anticipation of raid wide damage mechanics is very useful for atonement spreading but I continue to disagree with people thinking that disc has a niche role. Our overall gameplay is vastly different than other healers but our output is fantastic. On initially gearing I had far too much mastery but as I've reoriented myself towards haste and crit my ability to pump out spot heals is nigh unparalleled with the boost grace gives and shields to buy us time to pump out additional hps. 

 

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As a friendly fyi for people, for raiding tellmewhen and clique are invaluable addons. Setting up the party profile to show as raid frames displays atonements and makes clique healing an absolute breeze. 

For raiding, plea and radiance are rarely used (in my experience anyways). If someone needs healing applying plea then penance etc is much less effective than a shadowmend then penance. Learning to manage mana as disc is vital and both plea and radiance in raids will destroy your mana pool. Also radiance doesn't apply 'smart' atonements so its use outside of 5 man groups is very limited imho. 

 

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Thanks for both of those comments Benji. Just to add to it, WeakAuras2 is always worth looking into as well. Absolutely love the addon and use it on every class I play.

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2 hours ago, Guest Benjignome said:

I actually think our current itteration is an extremely strong single target healer who has to rely on atonement for spread damage and in this area we aren't as well equipped for rapid spread damage as say a holy priest. I've healed both raid and tanks but honestly our tank healing with grace + shadow mend along with shields is fantastic. We completed normal dream last night and I was top healing and lowest overhealing through the overall raid. Did heroic ursoc last week and also felt to be in a great spot.

Radiance is an absolute waste of mana and almost all of your atonements should be applied by shadow mend and PWS. I agree anticipation of raid wide damage mechanics is very useful for atonement spreading but I continue to disagree with people thinking that disc has a niche role. Our overall gameplay is vastly different than other healers but our output is fantastic. On initially gearing I had far too much mastery but as I've reoriented myself towards haste and crit my ability to pump out spot heals is nigh unparalleled with the boost grace gives and shields to buy us time to pump out additional hps. 

 

We certainly are not the worst tank healers, but I wouldn't go as far and proclaim us tank healers. That vocation is best left for holy paladins, it's their specialty. Our shields still have a cooldown and shadowmend is a relatively long cast. On the move this becomes useless. Ursoc is where Discs shine due to the predictibility of the incoming damage, aswell as dividing the group hence giving a bigger window to blanket the group with atonement.

Outside of the free-spell buffs offered by co healers I dont use radiance. But it has a place and together with lights wrath+ overheating proc it can be super amazing. A normal lights wrath with mindbender is also not bad. By being a hybrid spec we already qualify forfilling a niche roll. It doesn't mean that it puts us in a bad spot. We have to accept that we have limitations and are by no means fullfledged healers in the sense that we can supply the same raid wide healing like other classes can. That is not our job, we are a support class.

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1 hour ago, Benjignome said:

As a friendly fyi for people, for raiding tellmewhen and clique are invaluable addons. Setting up the party profile to show as raid frames displays atonements and makes clique healing an absolute breeze. 

For raiding, plea and radiance are rarely used (in my experience anyways). If someone needs healing applying plea then penance etc is much less effective than a shadowmend then penance. Learning to manage mana as disc is vital and both plea and radiance in raids will destroy your mana pool. Also radiance doesn't apply 'smart' atonements so its use outside of 5 man groups is very limited imho. 

 

It comes down to playstyle since both plea usage and shadowmend can be viable. There is no good or bad. It's also not about topping the meters, it's about judgement, the choice you make between one hard heal or a smaller one that targets multiple people. Interchange is key. Also plea synergizes well with twist of fate.

A very handy addon is Enemy Grid for targeting mobs by healthpool instead of clicking on the mob itself. And Vuhdo is an excellent addon for tracking durations of atonements. For restoration druids it's godly and works just as well for Disc priests.

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The discussion is very interesting, so keep at it if you wish since it might help others reading through this thread. Thanks to both of you for contributing :) Just make sure it stays on topic with Disc!

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5 hours ago, Ladyoftheforest said:

It comes down to playstyle since both plea usage and shadowmend can be viable. There is no good or bad. It's also not about topping the meters, it's about judgement, the choice you make between one hard heal or a smaller one that targets multiple people. Interchange is key. Also plea synergizes well with twist of fate.

A very handy addon is Enemy Grid for targeting mobs by healthpool instead of clicking on the mob itself. And Vuhdo is an excellent addon for tracking durations of atonements. For restoration druids it's godly and works just as well for Disc priests.

You're right that topping the charts isn't everything but staying competitive with low overhealing is something all healers should be aiming for.

I don't quite understand your logic about shadowmend vs plea. One significant heal that applies atonement vs one instant insignificant heal that applies atonement and whose mana cost quickly becomes out of control in a raid setting. The only time I would ever plea is during movement before casting penance if PWS is down tbh. Radiance is not a reliable atonement application spell as it has no smart targeting mechanics (it falls off quickly with anything larger than a 5 man group). It's a gamble every time with a high mana cost to boot. 

If you're using plea on someone who's in twist of fate proccing range then in all likelyhood that person is dead on heroic if no one else beats you to the punch to top them up. 

I've thus far found power infusion to be excellent in combination with mind bender to give yourself some mana back  while also being able to pump out emergency heals. I've not tested twisted fate extensively, I'll give it a shot on Monday for our next raid.

I'll have to get enemy grid but I personally like monitoring atonement durations on raid frames over vuhdo. I'm a bit of a minimalist though ;). 

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7 hours ago, Ladyoftheforest said:

We certainly are not the worst tank healers, but I wouldn't go as far and proclaim us tank healers. That vocation is best left for holy paladins, it's their specialty. Our shields still have a cooldown and shadowmend is a relatively long cast. On the move this becomes useless. Ursoc is where Discs shine due to the predictibility of the incoming damage, aswell as dividing the group hence giving a bigger window to blanket the group with atonement.

Outside of the free-spell buffs offered by co healers I dont use radiance. But it has a place and together with lights wrath+ overheating proc it can be super amazing. A normal lights wrath with mindbender is also not bad. By being a hybrid spec we already qualify forfilling a niche roll. It doesn't mean that it puts us in a bad spot. We have to accept that we have limitations and are by no means fullfledged healers in the sense that we can supply the same raid wide healing like other classes can. That is not our job, we are a support class.

I'm not in higher content (aka mythic) but I did play the role of tank healer tonight in heroics and I fared quite well. We don't have a pally healer so I can't speak to that :( I still think our single target sustain is good, not the best, but quite acceptable. 

With enough haste shadowmend is just fine. There's no fights where I've found myself with such a long period of movement where I'm unable to cast move cast move and it's panned out just fine. Popping shields and rapture if more movement is required also works.

RE lights wrath. If you're spamming radiance to get out atonements for a juicy heating up procs your overall mana use would be quite high in relation to the targets that actually benefitting from the spike healing. Why not shadowmend critical targets to stabilize them and top them up along with tanks who almost always have atonement on them?

I'm not saying we don't have limitations, every class does. I'm saying I don't agree with how people perceive disc as a 'support class'. We don't have to be able to blanket hot the raid or tranq a raid to be considered a full fledged healer. We have our own tools for healing and mitigation that combined with other healers make for an effective combo. It's the combined strength of multiple healer types that enables a successful raid. If I was pulling 50/50 dmg and healing I'd agree, yup, we're support but that's far from the reality. In higher content you can't sit back and rely on atonement healing as your #1 source. Shadowmend is our bread and butter with a healthy portion of atonement healing to complete the ensemble. 

Edited by Benjignome
Typo

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Guest Random Disc Priest

Very educational conversation but it seems your different roles in your raid group are the main source of your apparent disagreement. Give a spin to what the other says, it might prove to be a valuable experience.

I always approach healer classes thinking "what can you do that none of the others can and how valuable is it". Based on that, I think we have a shot at being an alternative to paladins as tank healers because we can put a bubble on the tanks and keep them alive with Clarity of Will, Grace, Shadow Mend, Smite's mitigation, and our Atonement healing, while offering higher dps. I admit that my experience with holy paladins is limited to pugs as our guild has none of them, so I could easily be wrong here.

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To comment on the build guide, I'm not sure why Purge the Wicked would be valued over Grace in raid healing. Grace is a straight up 30% boost (to my understanding) for shields and direct heals on targets with atonement. How does a longer duration dot that passes to one extra target once per penance >= grace? To me purge is a convenience talent that is vastly overshadowed by the throughput that grace provides. Very interested in the rationale for this!

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3 hours ago, Guest Random Disc Priest said:

Very educational conversation but it seems your different roles in your raid group are the main source of your apparent disagreement. Give a spin to what the other says, it might prove to be a valuable experience.

It does seem that way doesn't it? I'm glad that people are learning from it, so I'm happy to leave it in this thread for now. If it continues to grow, I might put it in its own thread in the Priest forum, we'll see!

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3 hours ago, Benjignome said:

To comment on the build guide, I'm not sure why Purge the Wicked would be valued over Grace in raid healing. Grace is a straight up 30% boost (to my understanding) for shields and direct heals on targets with atonement. How does a longer duration dot that passes to one extra target once per penance >= grace? To me purge is a convenience talent that is vastly overshadowed by the throughput that grace provides. Very interested in the rationale for this!

From my understanding of when the guide was written, I believe PtW is taken because it, when compared to SW:P:

  • Does more damage.
  • Costs less mana.
  • Spreads after Penance.
  • Maintains a raid-friendly playstyle.

Grace is only good if you're using non-Atonement heals on people that have Atonement already, which seems fairly counter-intuitive. To me, at least, a Disc really starts pumping out healing when they start doing damage. Grace seems to be the opposite of that. I believe that evaluation here is looking more at the fact that Grace changes your playstyle to something that functions amazingly well in 5-mans, but not so much in larger raids.

Hope this clears up some of the confusion! If it doesn't, just let me know and I'll try again :D

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2 hours ago, Blainie said:

From my understanding of when the guide was written, I believe PtW is taken because it, when compared to SW:P:

  • Does more damage.
  • Costs less mana.
  • Spreads after Penance.
  • Maintains a raid-friendly playstyle.

Grace is only good if you're using non-Atonement heals on people that have Atonement already, which seems fairly counter-intuitive. To me, at least, a Disc really starts pumping out healing when they start doing damage. Grace seems to be the opposite of that. I believe that evaluation here is looking more at the fact that Grace changes your playstyle to something that functions amazingly well in 5-mans, but not so much in larger raids.

Hope this clears up some of the confusion! If it doesn't, just let me know and I'll try again :D

I'd like to counter that to say that for the first two points, the damage boost and mana cost are fairly negligible, it spreads to one other target on penance but doesn't refresh duration on the original target, and the majority of times (aside from trash) mobs aren't close enough to see the benefit of it. In a raid setting where the majority of our healing is coming from shadowmend (and atonement coming in 2nd), you're severely handicapping your ability to single target heal.

The reality of raiding is when people take damage it's not atonement and move on, it's shield to stabilize, shadowmendX whatever amount is needed (now boosted by grace) and THEN damage to proc atonement heals when people are stabilized and not in any imminent threat from dying. Atonement healing is not responsive enough (I'm talking pure healing numbers/time when looking at one health bar) unless you have a boosted penance or a heated up light's wrath. The first scenario seems to have a 45s-1min internal cd and heated seems few and far between. By not taking grace you're handicapping your SM and PWS. In comparison to grace, PtW really does then seem like a convenience spell and the weighting should be shifted considerably imo. 

From logs for the first 3 bosses in heroic dream shadowmend was over 50% of my healing with atonement sitting around 25%. Why on earth would I handicap the majority of my healing for convenience? THAT seems counter-intuitive.

Edited by Benjignome
clarity

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36 minutes ago, Benjignome said:

 In a raid setting where the majority of our healing is coming from shadowmend (and atonement coming in 2nd), you're severely handicapping your ability to single target heal.

I think something is majorly wrong here.

Let's take a look at every disc healer that has reached top 10 on healing for the first 3 Heroic bosses.

Nythendra - 2 Discs

Elerethe

Ursoc - 1 Disc

I think you really need to check how you're playing your disc if you are doing 50% of your healing with Shadow Mend in a Heroic raid.

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Perhaps I need to go back to the drawing board then... I was on tank healing duty so the single target healing would naturally be higher. With what you linked that data would then devalue grace (much fewer shadowmends). 

In some of those scenarios the priests are casting radiance more than even PWS. I'm a bit stumped...

Edited by Benjignome

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9 hours ago, Benjignome said:

You're right that topping the charts isn't everything but staying competitive with low overhealing is something all healers should be aiming for.

I don't quite understand your logic about shadowmend vs plea. One significant heal that applies atonement vs one instant insignificant heal that applies atonement and whose mana cost quickly becomes out of control in a raid setting. The only time I would ever plea is during movement before casting penance if PWS is down tbh. Radiance is not a reliable atonement application spell as it has no smart targeting mechanics (it falls off quickly with anything larger than a 5 man group). It's a gamble every time with a high mana cost to boot. 

If you're using plea on someone who's in twist of fate proccing range then in all likelyhood that person is dead on heroic if no one else beats you to the punch to top them up. 

I've thus far found power infusion to be excellent in combination with mind bender to give yourself some mana back  while also being able to pump out emergency heals. I've not tested twisted fate extensively, I'll give it a shot on Monday for our next raid.

I'll have to get enemy grid but I personally like monitoring atonement durations on raid frames over vuhdo. I'm a bit of a minimalist though ;). 

No. Our aim as healers is to try to keep everyone alive untill the boss is dead. Competition is not an objective, it's a desire. Nothing wrong with that desire since I feel the same, but doing my job takes precedent over personal glory. The person I was retorting to had questions about the role of the disc priest. I supplied him with the basics without dismissing any playstayle. That is up to him. If you feel I misguided him in any way, feel free to point them out to me. Again, it was not about being the best healer in the raid. But it was about sharing the basics of the disc priest.

You don't understand my logic? That's what tunnelvision does to you. I spoke of Shadowmend being arguably the best single target heal among healers. One can draw conclusions from that. I then moved on to plea to show it's merit. I'd suggest you look up the talent twist of fate, how it works and hopefully you'd understand that using shadowmend to heal a low hp raidmember is not as efficient (and might be ineffective since that person might get healed above 35% when you're still casting shadowmend) as using an instant plea.

I'd rather not see this fun and challening spec be dumbed down as a 'one button class' where shadowmend is the new Powerd Word: Shield (pre Legion). Flintoid made a good point when he compared his style with a different kind of style where Healingspikes came in periods, rather than his steady heal. Radiance was used by the compared healer and he topped Flintoid. What does this mean? It means that Disc priest has more than one way of healing. Your way is not the only way and the whole point I made to the original poster was to give an idea what the disc is capable of and find his own way to heal. Im not here to say to anyone how to heal since I respect personal preference.

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9 hours ago, Benjignome said:

I'm not in higher content (aka mythic) but I did play the role of tank healer tonight in heroics and I fared quite well. We don't have a pally healer so I can't speak to that :( I still think our single target sustain is good, not the best, but quite acceptable. 

With enough haste shadowmend is just fine. There's no fights where I've found myself with such a long period of movement where I'm unable to cast move cast move and it's panned out just fine. Popping shields and rapture if more movement is required also works.

RE lights wrath. If you're spamming radiance to get out atonements for a juicy heating up procs your overall mana use would be quite high in relation to the targets that actually benefitting from the spike healing. Why not shadowmend critical targets to stabilize them and top them up along with tanks who almost always have atonement on them?

I'm not saying we don't have limitations, every class does. I'm saying I don't agree with how people perceive disc as a 'support class'. We don't have to be able to blanket hot the raid or tranq a raid to be considered a full fledged healer. We have our own tools for healing and mitigation that combined with other healers make for an effective combo. It's the combined strength of multiple healer types that enables a successful raid. If I was pulling 50/50 dmg and healing I'd agree, yup, we're support but that's far from the reality. In higher content you can't sit back and rely on atonement healing as your #1 source. Shadowmend is our bread and butter with a healthy portion of atonement healing to complete the ensemble. 

You can not sustain Shadowmend the whole raidfight, it is too expensive for that. It is however a powerful single target heal so must be used wisely and not frivolously. You should not use yourself as THE example of healer since a novice asked about the spec, so Im looking from his/her perspective.

Clearly I said that spamming radiance would be done when you have the mana or when you get the free spell usage buff provided by other healers. You then have 10 seconds of spamming any spell you like. This is not always a possibility, but it is an option. Yes, you can single target heal and treat your shadowmend as if it's a godly gift, but it's not the only way to properly heal. Especially since it can give mana issues in most cases.

We are a support class, period. There is nothing disgusting about the word support since we bring dps value to the raid outside our heals. If we were to be full healers with the capacity to dps, why wouldn't every raid be filled with discs only? And why would the disc be an unpopular spec among guilds that are recruiting for healers? They all see the value of the Disc priest, but it's not good to have too many of them sine we're.. a support class. This is very evident when you look at the beta period where Discs were having trouble pushing beyond Mythic+10. It puts the Disc in a position that is unique in regard to it's specialization or lack there of. People are free to spam shadowmend and feel good about themselves but I bet Blizzard did not have the intention to make Disc priest a one button spam robot again.

Edited by Ladyoftheforest

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18 minutes ago, Ladyoftheforest said:

No. Our aim as healers is to try to keep everyone alive untill the boss is dead. Competition is not an objective, it's a desire. Nothing wrong with that desire since I feel the same, but doing my job takes precedent over personal glory. The person I was retorting to had questions about the role of the disc priest. I supplied him with the basics without dismissing any playstayle. That is up to him. If you feel I misguided him in any way, feel free to point them out to me. Again, it was not about being the best healer in the raid. But it was about sharing the basics of the disc priest.

You don't understand my logic? That's what tunnelvision does to you. I spoke of Shadowmend being arguably the best single target heal among healers. One can draw conclusions from that. I then moved on to plea to show it's merit. I'd suggest you look up the talent twist of fate, how it works and hopefully you'd understand that using shadowmend to heal a low hp raidmember is not as efficient (and might be ineffective since that person might get healed above 35% when you're still casting shadowmend) as using an instant plea.

I'd rather not see this fun and challening spec be dumbed down as a 'one button class' where shadowmend is the new Powerd Word: Shield (pre Legion). Flintoid made a good point when he compared his style with a different kind of style where Healingspikes came in periods, rather than his steady heal. Radiance was used by the compared healer and he topped Flintoid. What does this mean? It means that Disc priest has more than one way of healing. Your way is not the only way and the whole point I made to the original poster was to give an idea what the disc is capable of and find his own way to heal. Im not here to say to anyone how to heal since I respect personal preference.

Disc does seem to allow for multiple playstyles at this point in time. I agree with that. It can be catered to atonement heals or SM and have good outcomes in both respects. 

I see your point in regards utilizing plea to 'proc' twisted fate. When I see bars at sub 35% I generally desire to get them back up as the next spike could kill them. That's my impulse and maybe I need to rely on others to more effectively fill that role. Your tone is generally fairly condescending around this point and I think you need to take your ego out of the equation. I'm commenting on this guide for clarity, to better myself and my capacity to excel in the raiding environment. To be flatly honest I'm on a brand new character with no prior raid healing experience (on any class). I am open to constructive criticism and in fact greatly desire it to better myself.

 

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14 minutes ago, Benjignome said:

Disc does seem to allow for multiple playstyles at this point in time. I agree with that. It can be catered to atonement heals or SM and have good outcomes in both respects. 

I see your point in regards utilizing plea to 'proc' twisted fate. When I see bars at sub 35% I generally desire to get them back up as the next spike could kill them. That's my impulse and maybe I need to rely on others to more effectively fill that role. Your tone is generally fairly condescending around this point and I think you need to take your ego out of the equation. I'm commenting on this guide for clarity, to better myself and my capacity to excel in the raiding environment. To be flatly honest I'm on a brand new character with no prior raid healing experience (on any class). I am open to constructive criticism and in fact greatly desire it to better myself.

 

I find your post ironic since my ego is nowhere near any of my posts while you were a bit selfcentered and dismissing other viable ways to heal. On top of that I gave a general idea of the class to a newcomer since I respect personal preference. How does my ego fit into this? I don't have anything against you, but it might be prudent for you to read posts more closely. See for who it is intended, instead of telling people how it's done and how they are wrong. Input is always welcomed and I hope to see more posts of your own experiences without binning other peoples views.

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3 minutes ago, Ladyoftheforest said:

I find your post ironic since my ego is nowhere near any of my posts while you were a bit selfcentered and dismissing other viable ways to heal. On top of that I gave a general idea of the class to a newcomer since I respect personal preference. How does my ego fit into this? I don't have anything against you, but it might be prudent for you to read posts more closely. See for who it is intended, instead of telling people how it's done and how they are wrong. Input is always welcomed and I hope to see more posts of your own experiences without binning other peoples views.

Never once said anyone was right or wrong, simply put forth a counter that you've obviously been offended by. You're not insightful to your tone, apparently. Feel free to get back on topic instead of starting a pissing contest. 

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