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Discipline Priest 7.3

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On 10/12/2016 at 7:32 PM, Benjignome said:

How do you guys think Unstable Arcanocrystal http://www.wowhead.com/item=141482/unstable-arcanocrystal&bonus=0 holds up vs the other trinkets for disc? Is sacrificing 1200ish int worth gaining all the other secondaries if I have a int/haste 845 trink?

Noxxic lists stat weights as:

Intellect [9.02] > Haste [7.52] > Crit [6.02] > Mastery [4.52] > Versatility [3.02]

Is this correct? If so it appears to lean towards arcano in this situation. 

Thanks so much!

I can't really speak for Noxxic, unfortunately, because I have no idea where they get their weights from. Yes it is worth using the trinket though.

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Hi Priest friends.

 

I wanted to ask, it's kinda the mess now with my gear, I'm like ilvl 845 but  with 22% crit 22% haste and 26% mastery so… that sucks.

I made my first raid like this, and I didn't feel that, my dps was low (under 80k) and healing (even if I don't like looking at that stat) was under 125k generally. I wanted to play without shadow Mend, but I couldn't coz my dps wasn't high enough to bring them their life back.

 

In the guide, Mastery is kinda the worst stat, but I see some people with full Mastery, is there something about that? And maybe should I go for Schism? 

 

Thanks guys ! 

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6 hours ago, BunnyHeal said:

I wanted to ask, it's kinda the mess now with my gear, I'm like ilvl 845 but  with 22% crit 22% haste and 26% mastery so… that sucks. I made my first raid like this, and I didn't feel that, my dps was low (under 80k) and healing (even if I don't like looking at that stat) was under 125k generally. I wanted to play without shadow Mend, but I couldn't coz my dps wasn't high enough to bring them their life back. In the guide, Mastery is kinda the worst stat, but I see some people with full Mastery, is there something about that? And maybe should I go for Schism? 

 

What are you using instead of schism? I know that the big arguement against using it is that it doesnt map exactly with penance but the extra DPS and weapon it gives you on rotation instead of smite all the time is well worth it.

I don't get the "not enough heals" comments people make... how do you structure your rotation? feel like its not the choices your making but more the way you use the spells

for example... adding plea in between fights is near essential since it means you go into a fight with atonements up. On the boss... you should be asking the tank for a pull timer, getting out 5 /6 pleas and then adding a shield to the tank as your last atonement... that means when the tank pulls your straight into your dps rotation (schism - PtW - penance - smite as a filler)

shadow mend is for emergencies because of the mana cost... don't rely on it

Aim for 5 Pleas+1 shield then dps rotate... because at 6 atonements on players plea becomes cost-ineffective to cast

do the shield last of the 6 atonements you put up. 1/. The shield is a fixed cost (plea increases the more atones you have so they need to be cast first). 2. you want to shield the tank last so that it lasts longest and if an atonement drops off before you restart your rotation, its not the one you cast on the tank

I choose Divine star over Halo because i prefer the extra casts and use it as a quick instant heal (appreciate the heal it does is small but as an instant cast its handy and resests quick)

as for stat builds... haste all the way. Use the website "Ask Mr Robot" if you don't already to get your stats weighed properly

there's not much arguement in my mind for stepping away from the set rotation... you'll get the most healing out of your disc by 5xplea + shield then dps and repeat... just keep repeating. other healers will out do you but you want to get back to the DPS phase of your rotation as quick as possible so the sooner you negate whatevers happening in the raid, get your pleas (and shield) up, the quicker you can dps (and therefore heal)

You've got shadowfiend / pain sup / barrier / rapture / radiance all still available as needed ans the guide tells you about radiance in particular so you should be fine. Just stick to the rotation as much as possible

Edited by dhumpriest
missed spell out
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Thanks you for your answer!

 

Currently, instead of Schism, I use the extra tick on Penance, but yeah, I should give Schism a chance.

The main problem is that my priest is a reroll coz I have to main Tank for my guild, so I can't try it a lot in raid and my first experimentation was on the Dragons. And here, there was an other problem I guess, the other heal in my little group was a Paladin, not the best mate.

 

Ok, so I'll stick with haste! The problem is that I have a better stuff in my bags (847 equipped but 850 in bags) but this is only full mastery, I'm pretty unlucky with loots. 


But yeah, thanks again, I'll try like this next time, and with Schism, hopefully it won't eat all my mana!

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Hi ! Thx for this big work, it's very helpfull.

Two ask :

- Our stat priority stay the same in mm+ like raid ( hâte > crit > mastery ) ?

- what are stat weight for discipline ? I need them for pawn.

Big Thx again.

( sorry for m'y english :/ )

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The accepted weights in 7.0 by most top priests were:

Raids: 
Intellect .865 | Critical Strike 0.685 | Haste 1 | Mastery 0.729 | Versatility 0.655

Dungeons:
Intellect 1.225 | Critical Strike 0.961 | Haste 1 | Mastery 0.617 | Versatility 0.928

Though with 7.1, Shield Discipline is probably the default talent of that tier in Raids now (as Mindbender's mana sustain is even worse than Solace now).  As a result, we're focusing more on PW:S in raids, and that might mean that in raids mastery went down a bit and Crit went up.  So the guide is probably correct now on both fronts.

So in M+, go Int>Haste>Crit>Vers/Mastery

In Raids, Haste>Int>Crit/Mastery>Vers
 

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Guest healbro

Just wish disc priests were as good as other healers. We need to press more buttons than any other healer for less healing and more mana.

Life is hard atonement should just be passive or not on the GCD so you could spread between casts.

If you role holy you will do double the healing with the same gear.

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On 10/27/2016 at 6:04 PM, Guest healbro said:

Just wish disc priests were as good as other healers. We need to press more buttons than any other healer for less healing and more mana.

Life is hard atonement should just be passive or not on the GCD so you could spread between casts.

If you role holy you will do double the healing with the same gear.


Holy has 0 utility where we have plenty.  That's where things differ.

All Holy does is put out high HPS and provide another innervate.  Their cooldowns are just more HPS.  This makes Shamans, Druids and Monks significantly more desirable for externals and raid cooldowns like spirit link.

We have Barrier, PS and the ability to completely burst heal through a raid mechanic.  We also bring a significant amount of DPS which sets us even further apart as we can help push timers/etc.  

Right now Disc is one of the top healers in high end M+ and a very strong raid healer for its utility.  HPS is not all healing, or Discipline priests in general are about.

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On 10/30/2016 at 1:51 AM, Dradreydreys said:

Holy has 0 utility where we have plenty.  That's where things differ.

This seems to have always been the key difference. Right now, if you want to simply pump out huge numbers, Disc isn't the spec to play. If you want to be a vital part of your raid, Disc is probably a good choice.

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On 10/24/2016 at 8:17 AM, Crouky said:

Hi ! Thx for this big work, it's very helpfull.

Tagging you to look above for answer to your question.

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Guest davelister

am i the only one who likes to use clarity of will in raids. clarity of will combined with shield discipline is extremely efficient. it stacks 2 times doubling the absorb amount, its extremely mana efficient as it leaves almost no overheal and you get that 1% mana back from shield discipline on clarity of will as well as power word: shield so i never run out despite constantly casting. with hero up you can quite easily shield a 20man raid before the first timer is up and if there is a dot going on or a raid wide damage as is the case in most fights thats 20% of your mana coming back to you.

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On 21.11.2016 at 6:49 PM, Guest davelister said:

am i the only one who likes to use clarity of will in raids

My knowledge of it is actually fairly limited, but I was wondering if you could post a log example of you using it? I'm always open to relaying new feedback to our writers and, if it is that you've found something that really does work well in contrast to our guide, it's nice to have it included.

Looking forward to see a log if you have one!

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IMO the real problem with CoW in raids is that it doesn't apply atonement.

Even if it applied atonement you'd use it somewhat sparingly, but why would you realistically want to CoW the raid when instead you could rapture PW:S spam or PW:R spam to apply atonement to the whole raid and Light's Wrath the health back?  Especially when it requires sacrificing Halo which is a pretty good 45 second cooldown. 

In the case it applied atonement I could see it having use essentially as a replacement shadowmend.  Our goal would still be to blanket heal mechanics, but you'd be able to use CoW for stuff like the first wave of Nyth rots, etc.

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18 minutes ago, Dradreydreys said:

IMO the real problem with CoW in raids is that it doesn't apply atonement.

Definitely a fair point. It would essentially change the way you would have to heal as a disc, no?

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1 minute ago, Blainie said:

Definitely a fair point. It would essentially change the way you would have to heal as a disc, no?

Yeah, CoW has its place right now in high M+.  It's really good to pre-empt the harder mob packs and to set up for big damage (like the first wave of shadowbolts from BRH final boss).  But if it doesn't apply atonement, I don't see a reason to use it in raid,  

At least as of right now, there's no mechanics that feel like a giant tank burst you need to prepare for.  And even if there were, I don't know if I'd want to take CoW for it over running Halo.  We're so, so good at healing raid-wide burst damage that spending time and mana not doing that seems kinda bad.  

That said, I can totally see a CoW healing style being OK in some fights.  Heroic Il'gynoth comes to mind, where there's really no big raid wide damage, and you could reasonably spend your time CoWing Il'g's target for his eye beam.  I imagine the HPS would get pretty high that way.  Once you hit mythic though, we're kinda needed to cover the slime DoT damage and it becomes less useful. :P

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Guest Casualpriest

I'm not sure why the tooltip in here is incorrect, but shadow word pain lasts 18 seconds, not 14, if used by a shadow priest. Because of this, purge the wicked is not that much of an upgrade - only 2 seconds or one tick more. With that in mind, would you change the recommended talent in the guide, or is it not that relevant?

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13 hours ago, Guest Casualpriest said:

I'm not sure why the tooltip in here is incorrect, but shadow word pain lasts 18 seconds, not 14, if used by a shadow priest. Because of this, purge the wicked is not that much of an upgrade - only 2 seconds or one tick more. With that in mind, would you change the recommended talent in the guide, or is it not that relevant?

I'll double check with the writer/reviewer, but I believe it is still the best choice for raiding.

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23 hours ago, Guest Casualpriest said:

I'm not sure why the tooltip in here is incorrect, but shadow word pain lasts 18 seconds, not 14, if used by a shadow priest. Because of this, purge the wicked is not that much of an upgrade - only 2 seconds or one tick more. With that in mind, would you change the recommended talent in the guide, or is it not that relevant?


It costs .2% less mana baseline, and spreads to nearby targets when you cast penance.  It's also got higher damage on cast and over the period.

As such, in raids (where almost all your healing should be atonement) it's extremely mana efficient and useful. 

Grace is default in dungeons.

Shadow Covenant is not worth taking at all right now, and though it's getting small buffs next patch, is still likely not worth taking.

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On 12/5/2016 at 0:47 AM, Guest Casualpriest said:

I'm not sure why the tooltip in here is incorrect, but shadow word pain lasts 18 seconds, not 14, if used by a shadow priest. Because of this, purge the wicked is not that much of an upgrade - only 2 seconds or one tick more. With that in mind, would you change the recommended talent in the guide, or is it not that relevant?

Similar response to that of Dradreydreys above. Will just let you read his, hope it helps.

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I have played 5 healers and one tank since WoW started, and the Disc priest healing output over other classes has been extremely under-powered at this time.  While in raids our shields are some of the best direct healing, but much of Atonement healing, raid wide, is lost in overhealing.  We just do not have the utility and strength that other classes do.  From my druid, shaman, myst, holy, and pally we can more specialize who gets large healing dumps as well as leave it and forget it healing like druids. 

I feel healers are simply the strongest class to play in any mmorpg over all others, I really hope this class specialization gets a boost. I would like to see more of our abilities apply atonement- for instance dispels and halo, star.  Increase shadow mends healing, while pushing the dmg aspect of it farther away. Grace should be replaced with something else altogether, and increased Atonement time added permanently throughout the priests life. And PW radiance increased to 4. Also there should be an overall increase to our dmg by several %, not as much as the weakest geared dps but more then tanks. 

I know this is more of a rant/wish list but it would to see what other people feel could make this specialization stronger a right step in getting some changes. I wonder what others feel need to be boosted. 

Edited by holysister

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On 12/26/2016 at 5:56 PM, holysister said:

I know this is more of a rant/wish list but it would to see what other people feel could make this specialization stronger a right step in getting some changes. I wonder what others feel need to be boosted. 

I do think one of the biggest things that needs to be changed is the way the spec allows itself to be played. Because of the fact that they don't want certain specs to be too difficult, it won't happen, but I'd love to see Disc play like this:

  • When played badly, it performs badly. You will find yourself below other healers the majority of the time.
  • As you get more comfortable and more skilled, you can see yourself starting to compete with other classes.
  • The skill ceiling should be super high. A disc Priest should be able to top the meters when played by someone that is perfect at the class. I'd love to see it be brutally punishing, but incredibly rewarding when you "get it".

At the moment, it just sorta seems to flop too early.

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On 12/26/2016 at 0:56 PM, holysister said:

I have played 5 healers and one tank since WoW started, and the Disc priest healing output over other classes has been extremely under-powered at this time.  While in raids our shields are some of the best direct healing, but much of Atonement healing, raid wide, is lost in overhealing.  We just do not have the utility and strength that other classes do.  From my druid, shaman, myst, holy, and pally we can more specialize who gets large healing dumps as well as leave it and forget it healing like druids. 

I feel healers are simply the strongest class to play in any mmorpg over all others, I really hope this class specialization gets a boost. I would like to see more of our abilities apply atonement- for instance dispels and halo, star.  Increase shadow mends healing, while pushing the dmg aspect of it farther away. Grace should be replaced with something else altogether, and increased Atonement time added permanently throughout the priests life. And PW radiance increased to 4. Also there should be an overall increase to our dmg by several %, not as much as the weakest geared dps but more then tanks. 

I know this is more of a rant/wish list but it would to see what other people feel could make this specialization stronger a right step in getting some changes. I wonder what others feel need to be boosted. 


Our healing isn't underpowered at all, really.  We certainly have the capability to keep up and some very useful utility with our Artifact to all raid-relevant traits.

If you're losing a lot of healing to overhealing, likely your raid is either using their healing cooldowns inefficiently when you can burst heal the raid back to full, your raid is running too many healers for the content, or you're trying to play the role of a consistent throughput healer on a fight you shouldn't be,  My atonement overheals, yes, but it's never significantly more a percentage of my healing than say a Druid's rejuv overheal.

Not only would adding atonement to halo and star be incredibly powerful, it would make halo a 100% no brainer as a choice when it basically already is unless you're doing really high mythic+ (where Clarity is better in only some cases) but it would contribute even more to the overheal "problem."  I mean it would become the most efficient heal bar none in the game even at one or two atonements.

Shadowmend is already the strongest base heal in the game.  The DoT effect only somewhat keeps it in check, because any tank you're spamming with it is going to be eating the damage before the DoT is even relevant.  Increasing its healing while decreasing the DoT would cement Disc as literally the best 5-man healer period.  They're already really high up there with Barrier and the Artifact trait for Barrier, which allows them to clear much higher tyrranicals than other classes at the moment.

And we're generally on par with tanks in damage.  If there was a desire for us to do more damage we'd need to do less healing.

Disc right now is a very good healer.  It takes a decent chunk of skill, but more than that it takes a lot of fight knowledge to nail down properly.  My first few pulls on any mythic boss were complete trash as far as healing went.  But after learning where heals were needed most, where my burst windows should be and how long I had to set up for them, my HPS would keep up or even surpass other healers.  That's a very strong place to be in when I'm outputting as much damage as our tanks.

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There is a lot of good information on this thread hopefully I can offer some from my own experiences.

I've been priesting on and off since BC and have been PVE healing as disc since WoLK.  I didn't play WoD very long so when I started playing again in October I was taken aback and adamantly against the disc changes.  But after playing it for a while I loved it! Healing as holy is soooo boring.

Just as some background, I don't use any addons, except recount, and I don't use any macros, and never really did except DBM.  I can still top raid meters and easily outheal most people with similar gear.  

It took me a couple weeks to re acclimate myself but it wasn't until I added Solace and Schism did my healing started to take off.

Castigation is too limited for my taste, It's gives approx 25% boost to penance but that's just one spell and schism does damage and adds 30% to all of your spells. I can usually pop off a couple 30% boosted smites before the CD on penance resets anyways.

PWR is waaaay too much of a mana drain, especially if you are also using schism.  I only use sparingly during high AoE damage and even that is a rarity. It's also waaaay to slow for me.

I'm also surprised that Solace gets a bad rap.  With atonement up, it's an insta cast heal and adds mana.  I don't really understand how something you can usually only use once or twice an encounter is that much better.  I've never had mana problems ever since I stopped using PWR. 

Its definitely harder to fit extra dps into your rotation but I find that it is well worth it if you take the time to figure it out.  Disc priest play is all about anticipation as one commentor previously stated.  That will help you more than any talent.

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9 hours ago, Aloysius said:

Just as some background, I don't use any addons, except recount, and I don't use any macros, and never really did except DBM.  I can still top raid meters and easily outheal most people with similar gear.  

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

Can you please link some of your logs, I'm very interested to see how you are playing.

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On 12/29/2016 at 8:52 PM, Aloysius said:

I'm also surprised that Solace gets a bad rap.  With atonement up, it's an insta cast heal and adds mana.  I don't really understand how something you can usually only use once or twice an encounter is that much better.  I've never had mana problems ever since I stopped using PWR. 

I imagine this is because Mindbender is more mana regen in a smaller window, which means it can be more helpful if you're finding yourself draining out.

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      Alliance Portal Room in Stormwind
      The Oribos portal in Stormwind can be found right next to the portal to Boralus.

      Horde Portal Room in Orgrimmar
      The Oribos portal is located downstairs to the right of the Caverns of Time portal.

      Related Shadowlands 9.0.1 Alpha Build 34615 News
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