apparition666

fire VS. frost war

37 posts in this topic

hey guys, look I know there has been plenty of posts on this subject, but I want a final conclusion. optimally played, under the exact same conditions, what would come out on top, fire or frost? because I run frost excellent but I hear fire does more dps. I am currently testing and running fire,I have read and also discussed that if I play it optimally and get good combustions it is top spec for dps as far as mages go currently. but frost to me seems far more consistent with less annoyance of rng. so honestly, which is the best way to go? what would I get more out of? because so far it's all pointing to frost. here is my armoury. http://us.battle.net...parítion/simple I can also post some parses on world of logs if needed. I just really want to know what overall would be better. cheers!

Edited by apparition666

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fire. Just realize it's far more difficult to play optimally. Also the difference at 526 ilvl isn't that big, but it does start to pull away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At a 525 ilvl Fire has the potential to be approximately 5%-10% better than frost (dependent upon the fight and if played optimally). That margin grows significantly at higher gear levels. However, you can absolutely raid effectively as frost. If you enjoy frost and are more comfortable with it than fire, then stick with frost. Most players will do far better dps with a spec they are comfortable with and enjoy than trying to force a change to a spec that they don't like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

good day, men

same question

i have

http://eu.battle.net.../Блорн/advanced

choise between fire and current (frost)

as i understand, fire is better after full 522

choise became actual when i tried to join normal (813) guild. mage's class leader told about changing spec into fire

i think now i'll make better dps in frost

help plz

offtop

should i prefer mastery instead of haste after 8025 (haste)?

i've inspected Kuznam and see reforge into mastery

p.s.

here we can find some logs

http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/30625/

thx for future answers)

Edited by MaximMazov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just restating it because it's the same for your situation.

At a 525 ilvl Fire has the potential to be approximately 5%-10% better than frost (dependent upon the fight and if played optimally). That margin grows significantly at higher gear levels. However, you can absolutely raid effectively as frost. If you enjoy frost and are more comfortable with it than fire, then stick with frost. Most players will do far better dps with a spec they are comfortable with and enjoy than trying to force a change to a spec that they don't like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5036 is the haste rating you will need prior to buffs and that is non-goblin. For goblin's it's 4565 (I think)

With 5036 haste rating + 5% raid buff you will be able to get 24 tick glyphed combustions. This is what all the top fire mages (that I know) are doing currently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fyz if you replace:

neck gem with a +320 crit

hand enchant with mastery

and reforge:

Chest 329 haste > mastery

Hands 323 mastery > hit

I believe you will be optimized Posted Image

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just curious, does Mr Robot's Optimization for Fire change the rating of Mastery over Haste after you break the 5036 point? I don't think it does but I have no way of checking for sure until I get home from work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does but you have to click the Edit Weights button, then under Haste Soft Cap you can check Manual and enter 5036. The other option is in that same Haste Soft Cap box, check Smart Picker then click Change Soft Cap (this will open another options box). In that new window uncheck Combustion and check Combustion (Glyphed). Now over to the right you should see a list of breakpoints and you are looking for +4 ticks on Combustion (Glyphed) 5036 (non-goblin). Click on that breakpoint and it will set it on the stat weight for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Further to the spec discussion, I'm arcane and waiting for better gear to go back to fire 510 currently. I was under the impression arcane was lowest, but checking raid bot (is this reliable) vs world of logs, fire and arcane are close to top and fire WAY down closer to bottom. Iwas going to switch to frost but seems really pointless, unless I'm reading data incorrectly http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/100/14/60/default/. currently 6/12 tot, and no complaints (so far). Should prob make new thread for this sry, Thanks for any input. Centrian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with raidbot is, that it only tracks the players... I mean..

Think sensefully, most "skilled mages" went for fire or arcane, because they thought they will be the leading specs for ToT. Many many players followed them, and switched to fire. What I mean is, fire and arcane specs have a higher number of playerbase, than Frost at the moment and most professional players who know how to play a mage optimally play these two specs leaving Frost with the less skilled players. (no offense to anyone)

To be frank, if the world top mages switched to frost, that would be the leading mage spec at the moment...

More frankly, I can easily do the same ammount of DPS as a fire mage on my same item level, depending on the type of the fight.

On the other hand, I have a strong feeling that fire will be by far the best in 5.4 with that amount of crit we will have, unless they get a nerf. Knowing this, I actually started practicing again with fire. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arcane is the least mobile and really only great for Megaera and Ra-den and It requires 4pc bonus to be competitive and scales well at the top end. Fire has the greatest mobility and best top end for almost every fight.

below ilvl 505 go frost

between 505-525 frost is pretty equal to fire

after 525 go fire or arcane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arcane is the least mobile and really only great for Megaera and Ra-den and It requires 4pc bonus to be competitive and scales well at the top end. Fire has the greatest mobility and best top end for almost every fight.

below ilvl 505 go frost

between 505-525 frost is pretty equal to fire

after 525 go fire or arcane

Mehh, too many players are trying to convince me to go fire.. :D

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mehh, too many players are trying to convince me to go fire.. Posted Image

I know how you feel, but feeling that I have the rotation down really well for frost and rank regularly now (sometimes quite high), and the fire mage 4 ilvl below me in guild blew me out of the water in his logs (I just transferred), I feel pretty much obligated to give up frost. I have noticed it just isn't scaling as well as I had hoped, and it has been a while since I have played arcane and fire.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for all the help guys. fire seemed to run excellent in a raid environment the other night. now all I need to do is practice my ignite building further to become optimal. cheers guys!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hey

it's me again

i've got big trouble

i've changed spec into fire

now i have - http://eu.battle.net/wow/ru/character/%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B4%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B8/%D0%91%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BD/advanced

but!!!

dps decreased in times! i dunno why

i realy dun understand

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-sj130d4l684nzs13/

i see myself in 50+-% of fire mage dash and it depressed me

help plz

what's wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll try to dive into the log tomorrow if I get time (sorry real life is very busy right now) but for now i'll post a link to Vykina's Fire mage opener. It's a good breakdown of how to open plus how to use the Heating up Trick. Maybe it will help some.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have not very best english language skills (especially listening is not my strongest side), that's why i don't understand key point of vykina's heating up using

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I've tried to analyze the WoL... But it's in Russian, so I gave up. The link you gave for armory is broken, in fact I found your character after a bit of search.

I don't really have anything to compare to your logs, yet because I just myself started playing fire on Sunday and only have logs for Dark Animus and bosses after that. I will get back to this topic after our Wednesday's raid that time I should be able to compare my logs to yours. :)

But, to be frank. I don't think that your crit rating is high enough yet, for the damage that you are expecting. Mine as well is pretty low... I've been collecting gear for frost spec, and I have also no item with base crit on it, so it sucks.. :D

Could you describe your opener and how you line up Combustion with Alter Time and your trinket procs and other CDs?

What is your basic rotation when you have cooldown on Combustion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Nireas
      I usually sim my characters to get the best possible results. I enjoy the process quite a lot and since I reached 120, I wanted to find out the best build of the spec. (Note, I didn't want to find out what to play, but rather how my own build fares in comarison.) I rarely mind a 1-2% difference. If it goes above 2%, I really mind a change. What this thread is about is mainly to bring something in the attention of those who help making the class guides, especially the talent choices. To my surprise, I was awed to find out that certain talents outperform previous "Standard" choices in the endgame, probably due to the stat squish.

      The Frost go-to build (top dps) would probably be along the lines of <Icy Talons / Cold Heart - Runic Attenuation - Frozen Pulse - Gathering Storm - Breath of Sindragosa>. What I found out primarily was that after the removal of legendaries, Cold Heart severely underperforms at most given situations resulting in a major dps drop due to the low mastery. Gathering Storm also suffers from the same problem and most of the times, Frostwyrm's Fury is better overall. The biggest surprise of them all, however, was that Inexorable Assault overperforms quite a lot, and is the first reason why I made the topic. I then started simming with the above in mind and I came across a build that some would not consider on par with top dog builds around the meta, which is the use of Horn of Winter which overperforms both its other two options when using the Breath build. Talent Sim can be seen here. Another intresting thing, which I loved, was that the 2nd best build uses Obliteration as a lvl 100 talent and no other build surpassed it (Other than the first one, obviously). So, I encourage frost players out there to give their other, less common talents a try. To the class guide author(s), I believe that the two "underdog" talents will earn their spot in the class guides.

      Thank you for your time reading this.


       
    • By Buksh
      Hi all,
      Im not sure where to post this but im hoping someone can help or at least point me in the right direction.
      TL;DR - My DPS is awful and i want to increase it
      I played fire & frost spec back in cata upto 85 and have recently got back into WoW again and finally realised what people talk about when they play "end game" i wish id known about raiding sooner!
      However, My DPS isnt great at all im eq 959 ilvl but my DPS comes out as low as 8-900 sometimes or i can hold a steady 1.1-1.2M. Simc comes out around 1.7M (obviously in a perfect world) but i still feel im doing something wrong.
      Ive watched videos, read forums and im sure my rotation is right. Im using Flask, Food and Runes and Pre-potting. I have some logs here of garothi.
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XRqCaL6jFVpW9MnG#fight=5&type=summary&source=23&view=events
      and this is my Raider.io - https://raider.io/characters/eu/twisting-nether/Buksh
      Not sure if ive posted this in the right place OR if ive given enough info to help. but anything would be hugely appreciated.
    • By Lager159
      Hi everyone. I just killed HC Varimathras and I was surprised by my low damage. There was not second time warp because we used the first one at 20% HP but I think I should get higher numbers. Can anyone tell me what did I do wrong? Was it really only in TW? I do not think so :/.
       
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XPYn1WJHRF7G4KMv#fight=6&type=damage-done
       
      https://wowanalyzer.com/report/XPYn1WJHRF7G4KMv/6/15
       
    • By Sibylle
      It's a few months later (what with delays and distractions and getting old and all that), but I just wanted to start by saying THANK YOU to those who helped me with amazing advice on levelling my fire mage alt. It made all the difference - you guys rock.
      I finally dinged 110 the other day and went into a few instances and raid finders with her. As a caster noob - I main a feral - there are a few things I've noticed and am unsure about.
      The guide here on Icy Veins recommends Dragon's Breath for AoE of 3+ grouped mobs. I may have overlooked something, but I can't for the life of me find anything on the *range* of Dragon's breath. The animation makes me think I need to stand right in front of the mobs to hit them, but that can't be right, I'm supposed to be ranged and standing a good bit away - aren't I?  During levelling, I've gotten used to casting Living Bomb regardless of how many mobs I'm facing. The guide has it exclusively as an AoE ability. Is that true, or is it worth casting on a single target (boss)? Does meteor "work" on huge bosses who are standing behind a ledge/cliff, in the manner of Engine of Souls (Desolate Host) or Garothi Worldbreaker? I try placing it as close to the edge of the "cliff" as possible, does that mean it'll hit the boss?
    • By ygzumc
      Hi. After reaching %33.3 Crit cap. What's your opinion stacking versa or haste.i go with versatility right now have %23.63/%11.82 versatility %16.71 haste %37 crit.i know i have little bit more crit but its good stat