T16 Warlock Style - Heroic & Mythic

[Brown 14]

I ran SacPact for the first 20 pulls, for the last 30 pulls I used SL/SL because I was scaring the bejezuz out of my healer when I would take 25% of my HP in damage right before Fallen Ash hit. Even though I was getting a 100% HP pool shield from it, it scared him and he asked me to stop using it.

That healer sounds like he/she will heal you if you speak too loud in mumble/vent/TS....

 

I vaguely recall telling my healers "really don't even need to heal me" then pounding back a shot. Don't remember much else.

[Omaric 246]

That healer sounds like he/she will heal you if you speak too loud in mumble/vent/TS....

 

I vaguely recall telling my healers "really don't even need to heal me" then pounding back a shot. Don't remember much else.

 

And then rainbows.

[Belloc 6]

That was how we was doing it, we had to be slow on the guys as when me and other DPS kill all fast it kept overwhelming everyone, so it was like I do 2, than 2nd dps does 2, after that heal + tank can go in or something. We trying out many things, 1st night trying it. Think we going to try General tonight. 

Don't even think about trying General if you're hitting the Norushen enrage at 30%. You won't even come close.

 

You can't be slow on Norushen. You have to go down, spawn the adds, and repeat as quickly as possible. Tanks have to be able to consistently pick up 2 adds without letting them smash a dps/healer (and, coming from a 25-man tanking perspective, 2 adds should be cake. 3-4 adds at once/in rapid succession is when it gets hard). The players up top need to switch off Norushen and kill the little adds immediately. They need to kill the big adds as soon as a tank has them. There's no getting around it -- Norushen is a tank fight. If your tanks can't control the big adds as fast as you need to spawn them, you're not going to kill it. Every other fight on 10-man is harder, so there's no point trying any other heroics until you can handle this one.

 

You might be better served by farming normal for a few more weeks, gearing up, and getting all of your players to improve on their play.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Belloc

[Belloc 6]

I'm using Sacpact and I love it. Hardly take any damage at all throughout the fight because of it, since it's usable with each iron prison you get.

100% agree with this. I've never felt like I was ever in any danger of dying on this fight because of Sac Pact. Falling Ash? Who cares! Iron Prison? Yeah right.

 

And we have a holy paladin healing down there, so it's not like I'm getting super padded with PW:S. Sac Pact is the way to go, imo.

[Liquidsteel 279]

I too used sacpact on progress as destro, but honestly there were times where I forgot to use it and didn't even take any damage anyway. Disc Priest shield + soul leech = no damage.

[Narga 0]

I too used sacpact on progress as destro, but honestly there were times where I forgot to use it and didn't even take any damage anyway. Disc Priest shield + soul leech = no damage.

Yes, I see your point. We're running with disc down aswell, and I also got soul leech. But it's happened sometimes that due to adds, some unfortunate placement of toxic storms and other random stuff he's been out of reach when the prison hits. I'm using sacpact as a precaution. It's especially nice when it lines up with falling ash and I take damage from neither. It's kinda crucial to keep me alive during the fight since I'm -by far- the biggest contributor to killing the blobs :P

[Nytemare 2]

Don't even think about trying General if you're hitting the Norushen enrage at 30%. You won't even come close.

 

You can't be slow on Norushen. You have to go down, spawn the adds, and repeat as quickly as possible. Tanks have to be able to consistently pick up 2 adds without letting them smash a dps/healer (and, coming from a 25-man tanking perspective, 2 adds should be cake. 3-4 adds at once/in rapid succession is when it gets hard). The players up top need to switch off Norushen and kill the little adds immediately. They need to kill the big adds as soon as a tank has them. There's no getting around it -- Norushen is a tank fight. If your tanks can't control the big adds as fast as you need to spawn them, you're not going to kill it. Every other fight on 10-man is harder, so there's no point trying any other heroics until you can handle this one.

 

You might be better served by farming normal for a few more weeks, gearing up, and getting all of your players to improve on their play.

 

Expect for like me who could use 2 more T pieces and 2 rings, along with maybe something for somone, we mostly de all items as no one needing it. Its to the point that 13/14 bosses are easy for us and no longer challenging. With Garrosh being only one- 1st kill last week, so we looking tonight to finish off him for the 2nd week.

 

General was just another add right? we didn't try it due to having to pug a healer, so unless it the whole group we not going to try heroic. Yeah I hope to get heroics down so we can beat Heroic Garrosh - we looking at 10 Heroic Garrosh kills needed for everyone to have mount, and I would like to get to him and down him and get mount before it becomes a low drop.

[Zagam 1,982]

Might want to pick up the pace with heroics then.  10 consecutive heroic kills would take 10 weeks.  If you dropped Heroic Garrosh this week, that would take you out to Feb 28.  I expect a nerf to be coming soon to SoO, similar to what we saw in Dragon Soul where after 2 or 3 weeks we see a 5% nerf.  If pride matters, I'd pick this up as I see this starting in late January to mid February. 

 

The first 10 heroics are rather tame in terms of difficulty and DPS requirements.  Thok introduces a need for someone to become a healer.  In 10 man, this is troublesome.  In 25, it's relatively easy.  Siegecrafter is, and will be, your first wall.  It will likely take you 2-3 weeks for this boss.  Paragons isn't looking too troublesome...in 3 hours of progression, my group got 4 of the Paragons down, and from what I hear, if you get #5 and #6 down, you're golden.  Garrosh doesn't seem too bad.  It was pretty brutal on earlier groups, but most groups capable of downing him before the end of the expansion are averaging over 570 item levels meaning everyone out gears the content.  It's just about learning it.

[Lockybalboa 618]

Might want to pick up the pace with heroics then.  10 consecutive heroic kills would take 10 weeks.  If you dropped Heroic Garrosh this week, that would take you out to Feb 28.  I expect a nerf to be coming soon to SoO, similar to what we saw in Dragon Soul where after 2 or 3 weeks we see a 5% nerf.  If pride matters, I'd pick this up as I see this starting in late January to mid February. 

 

The first 10 heroics are rather tame in terms of difficulty and DPS requirements.  Thok introduces a need for someone to become a healer.  In 10 man, this is troublesome.  In 25, it's relatively easy.  Siegecrafter is, and will be, your first wall.  It will likely take you 2-3 weeks for this boss.  Paragons isn't looking too troublesome...in 3 hours of progression, my group got 4 of the Paragons down, and from what I hear, if you get #5 and #6 down, you're golden.  Garrosh doesn't seem too bad.  It was pretty brutal on earlier groups, but most groups capable of downing him before the end of the expansion are averaging over 570 item levels meaning everyone out gears the content.  It's just about learning it.

 

All bosses before Thok are, as far as heroics over the years goes, fairly easy. MSV easy, first wing ICC, first part of Uld easy.

 

Blackfuse is a tool, best advice I can give for that is do NOT use my guilds strat as its way harder then it should be. Best strat so far I've heard is the one Zag's people uses.

 

Paragons has a light DPS check at the start of the fight. Mid fight for 10man is another dps check although it isn't a major one. Mid fight for 25man is a healer/CD check, in the avg. gear you *should* have by now you should be okay but it is a road bump. End fight in 10 and 25 is cake walk-ish as long as you don't stand near Kungchongs.

 

Garrosh is a major bleeding pain in the ass in 10man, the DPS and healing is fair but the movement and execution needs to be perfect. 25man you can cheese the harder mechanics and it makes the fight super easy. Tbh I would put heroic Garrosh on par in difficulty with fights such as Thok, Malk, or Dark Shaman. The RNG of Garrosh is very scripted, no guessing, no gibing, just do the same thing and do it right over and over and over. SW phase is the most RNG-ish part of the fight and can cause issues.

 

Highly recommend three tanking 25m garrosh. 

[Liquidsteel 279]

Yep, from a 25man perspective Garrosh is purely an endurance test: can you get the majority of the raid to not fuck up their duties throughout the 13 minutes it takes to kill him.

 

We almost hit p3 in the first night and hit p4 for the first time after around 70 wipes. The problem is that one little thing can screw you over; the engineer team didn't get a proc or two - wipe; the shaman mistimed his stun totem in first intermission - wipe; not enough people took the buffs and you had too many deaths - wipe.

 

It is honestly such a boring fight and considering we would have so many pointless wipes it meant we only hit p4 twice during each night so it was getting a bit much towards the end. Took us less than 10 attempts in p4 to kill him having seen it for the first time around 70ish wipes, but it took us what must have been around 160 to actually kill him.

 

Killing Blackfuse and Paragons was much more satisfying because those bosses actually have some degree of personal skill involved. Garrosh is just a "can you get 25 people to focus and just do what they're told for 13 mins".

[Belloc 6]

 

General was just another add right? we didn't try it due to having to pug a healer, so unless it the whole group we not going to try heroic. Yeah I hope to get heroics down so we can beat Heroic Garrosh - we looking at 10 Heroic Garrosh kills needed for everyone to have mount, and I would like to get to him and down him and get mount before it becomes a low drop.

General is another add that brings a positioning mechanic to the fight, a new ability (execute) that requires tanks to use Active Mitigation/Cooldowns to survive, and a completely redone approach to handling the rest of the fight.

 

For instance, most groups, on normal mode, just kill the Shaman first, then the rest of the adds, and that's all the complexity that they need. On heroic, however, you have to have an interrupt rotation on the Arcweavers, you want to either root or kite the Assassin until it's time to kill it, and you have to prioritize killing the banners anytime they spawn while adds are up. Heroic Leap fire lines will often one-shot players and War Song usually results in deaths, as well.

 

The fight is far from the joke that people make it out to be. Indeed, for whatever retarded reason, my Warlock's group, last week, killed the first 7 heroic bosses with no problem and just could. not. kill. Nazgrim. I don't have any idea what was going wrong, since we one-shot it the week before, but it's seriously not a good candidate for first or second heroic.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Belloc

[Belloc 6]

Might want to pick up the pace with heroics then.  10 consecutive heroic kills would take 10 weeks.  If you dropped Heroic Garrosh this week, that would take you out to Feb 28.  I expect a nerf to be coming soon to SoO, similar to what we saw in Dragon Soul where after 2 or 3 weeks we see a 5% nerf.  If pride matters, I'd pick this up as I see this starting in late January to mid February.

GC had a twitter post implying that the gear upgrade system is taking the place of the stacking nerfs. We should've had several stacks of the zone nerf by now, otherwise.

 

P.S. I'll get better at using MultiQuote so I can avoid having multiple posts in a row :P

Edited December 20, 2013 by Belloc

[Zagam 1,982]

Yeah, they never said one way or another for sure.  I don't think an 8 item level increase across your entire raid is equivalent to a 30% nerf to raid bosses and damage.  We shall see.

[Strife 6]

Got H DS and H Nazgrim last night. No raiding Christmas week though so I guess Malk will have to wait.

 

Thanks to people's advice in this thread, we just went in and 3 healed DS last night instead of trying 2 healing and got it in 3 tries. Then only took 7 tries on H Nazgrim after figuring out execute and the best way to handle adds.

 

Comparatively Nazgrim was alot easier then IJ and DS for us so I can see why some raids have done him before the other 2, problem is we were having alot of healing issues on IJ phase 2 and DS top group where the heals on Nazgrim weren't really that bad.

[Zagam 1,982]

Get ready to rage at people who can't avoid the balls of light.  Many of your players will turn into moths and bugs dying to see what the bugzapper feels like.

[Lockybalboa 618]

Get ready to rage at people who can't avoid the balls of light.  Many of your players will turn into moths and bugs dying to see what the bugzapper feels like.

 

roflmfao

[Omaric 246]

Get ready to rage at people who can't avoid the balls of light.  Many of your players will turn into moths and bugs dying to see what the bugzapper feels like.

 

I Pacman those things up like it's mah jerb.  Pop Unending Resolve and nom about 5 of them to clear the area.

[JvChequer 43]

Yeah, they never said one way or another for sure.  I don't think an 8 item level increase across your entire raid is equivalent to a 30% nerf to raid bosses and damage.  We shall see.

 

 

IMO the best way blizzzard could do its make upgrade until 4 or 6.

 

Better than nerf the boss its power-up the player, IMHO.

[Zagam 1,982]

Buffing the players was a mistake.  It gives an artificial sense of a powerful being.  Plus, it skews logs later on and misrepresents data.  Best to leave player abilities alone and nerf bosses, much like they did in Dragon Soul. 

[chrisdux 0]

Buffing the players was a mistake.  It gives an artificial sense of a powerful being.  Plus, it skews logs later on and misrepresents data.  Best to leave player abilities alone and nerf bosses, much like they did in Dragon Soul.

I think both nerfing content and buffing players is a mistake to be avoided, at least in heroics. They might nerf LFR, they might nerf flex, hell maybe even normal. But leave heroics as it is. It´s supposed to be a challange. Let it stay a challange until the content is relevant. Then let players complete it when they outgear it by having items from next raid tear...

[Calol 5]

Question about heroic shamans, if you glyph UR would that keep you alive or is it just active mitigations for the iron prison? Same for SL with a pet out.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Calol

[Peatzah 0]

Question about heroic shamans, if you glyph UR would that keep you alive or is it just active mitigations for the iron prison? Same for SL with a pet out.

I kept UR glyphed, hit sac pact on iron prisions and took not much damage, if any. We also have a disc priest so that helps as well.

[Calol 5]

Yeah we have a disc as well but I'd prefer to not leave my life in his hands if I can help it. And I meant the Eternal Resolve glyph not UR sorry.

[Zagam 1,982]

Question about heroic shamans, if you glyph UR would that keep you alive or is it just active mitigations for the iron prison? Same for SL with a pet out.

There is no reason not to take Sacrificial Pact here.  It nullifies the entire Iron Prison damage and it's on a 1 minute cooldown.  Any other talent during progression is a mistake.

[mediocregatsby 18]

sweet freakin jesus we finally killed 25HC siegecrafter. felt anti-climactic because we were fully capable of killing him weeks ago but the holidays and some fuckups happened.

 

are there any good resources or tips for 25HC klaxxi strategy? i know this forum is supposed to be lock-only but i noticed there are a decent number of raid leads here so i figured i'd ask anyway.